Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
132 registered (Adam Schaaf 58265, 3times2, ahoffmann, accordeur, 34 invisible), 1426 Guests and 10 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Topic Options
#2010778 - 01/07/13 05:53 PM Keyboard Patch Transition
Tyruke Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 64
Loc: Anaheim, California, USA
Hello, everyone.

I've been viewing these forums for a while now in order to get some good information on the various new digital pianos that are out there.

I currently play piano in my church, and am looking for a new keyboard that has a seamless transition between patches. Many times during a service I'll need to switch between an acoustic piano sound, an electric piano sound, a warm synth pad, or strings; and the keyboard we use now stops the sound as I switch patches.

What I would really like is for the ability to hold the sustain pedal on one patch and switch to another patch without the first one stopping until I let go of the sustain.

The two keyboards I have been reading about on this board that have really interested me are the Kawai ES7 and Roland FP7F. So I was wondering if these keyboards would function in the way I would want.

Any other keyboard suggestions are welcome. Speakers on the board are a plus, but not a priority.

Thank you very much.

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
Special Financing on Digital Keyboards

Click Here


#2010857 - 01/07/13 09:28 PM Re: Keyboard Patch Transition [Re: Tyruke]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10726
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Tyruke, the ES7 should not truncate/cut-off sounds when changing instruments. However, there may be slight alterations in tonal character if the patches use different reverb or effect presets.

For example, if the 'Concert Grand' sound is selected (typically with just 'Room' reverb, but no additional effects) and you press and hold a key, then select the 'Classic E.P.' sound (which may have tremolo and amp simulator effects applied, depending on the patch settings), there may be a noticeable change to the acoustic piano sound (due to the additional E.P. effects kicking in). However, the acoustic piano sound itself will not be truncated/cut-off.

As always, I strongly recommend that you play-test any instruments you are considering extensively (testing specific scenarios such as that described above) before making a purchasing decision.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2010950 - 01/08/13 01:50 AM Re: Keyboard Patch Transition [Re: Kawai James]
Tyruke Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 64
Loc: Anaheim, California, USA
Hmm... I think I understand what you are saying.

Do you think the ES7 would be on display at the NAMM show this month?

I go to the show every year and I think I'm going to take your advice on trying out keyboards to make sure they can accommodate my needs. And what better place to do that than a music product convention? ( I can't believe I didn't think of this prior to my own post... lol )

I don't usually search out for Kawai's area, but if I'm able to try an ES7 I think I will.

Top
#2010956 - 01/08/13 02:10 AM Re: Keyboard Patch Transition [Re: Tyruke]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10726
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Tyruke,

Originally Posted By: Tyruke
Do you think the ES7 would be on display at the NAMM show this month?


Yes, Kawai America will be exhibiting the ES7, along with most other digital models.

If you have the opportunity to visit NAMM, I cannot think of a better place to try out a wide range of instruments all under one roof.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2010999 - 01/08/13 05:26 AM Re: Keyboard Patch Transition [Re: Tyruke]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5293
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
James, do you fly in and represent Kawai for NAMM?
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

Top
#2011005 - 01/08/13 05:46 AM Re: Keyboard Patch Transition [Re: Tyruke]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10726
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Dave, I'd absolutely love to attend NAMM, however places are very limited, and I'm pretty busy with work here at the head office.

Not to worry though - my colleagues at Kawai America always do an excellent job of representing the company and answering queries etc.,

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2011069 - 01/08/13 08:44 AM Re: Keyboard Patch Transition [Re: Tyruke]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3728
Originally Posted By: Tyruke
I currently play piano in my church, and am looking for a new keyboard that has a seamless transition between patches. Many times during a service I'll need to switch between an acoustic piano sound, an electric piano sound, a warm synth pad, or strings; and the keyboard we use now stops the sound as I switch patches.

What I would really like is for the ability to hold the sustain pedal on one patch and switch to another patch without the first one stopping until I let go of the sustain.

What keyboard are you using now? In general, Rolands and Kurzweils have this feature. Korg has it in the Kronos. Some keyboards have it but only if you operate them in a certain mode (Yamaha Motif/MOX/MX are examples, I believe, also possibly some Korgs). At least some Casios have had it.

As James explained, there are also cases where it "kind of" works... the feature is there, but you'll hear an audible glitch as the fx change between the patch you're coming from and the patch you're switching to. So in some cases, it may work smoothly between some patches but not others. However, often, this can be addressed by editing the sounds to remove the fx (they may not be crucial to your use of the sound), and saving those versions of the sounds. Switching between those versions of the sounds that don't have the fx can then be seamless. But not every piano permits you to store fx-disabled versions of their sounds.

Top
#2011486 - 01/08/13 11:29 PM Re: Keyboard Patch Transition [Re: anotherscott]
Tyruke Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 64
Loc: Anaheim, California, USA
Originally Posted By: anotherscott

What keyboard are you using now? In general, Rolands and Kurzweils have this feature. Korg has it in the Kronos. Some keyboards have it but only if you operate them in a certain mode (Yamaha Motif/MOX/MX are examples, I believe, also possibly some Korgs). At least some Casios have had it.


The keyboard I use now is a Yamaha P-95. When switching between acoustic piano and electric piano there is no hiccup, but when I switch to a string patch the sound stops completely. Also, the P-95 does not have a warm synth pad sound which is sound our worship leader loves very much. The piano sound also leaves much to be desired, so I figured an upgrade was in order.

I did try a few keyboards at a guitar center a while back, and many of them had some sort of performance mode that allowed me to load up four sounds at once and adjust there volumes with the four faders on the keyboard. I thought this would help, but I noticed an issue for me. If I loaded up a piano, electric piano, strings, and pad all at once the polyphony is being used up by all four patches.

So let's say I need to play a song that's only piano. Even though the other three faders for the other patches are turned down, they are still technically being played and therefore eating away at my polyphony. What happened when I tried playing the piano was that many notes kept getting cut off because the polyphony was being used up. I don't remember all the keyboards I tried that worked like this, but it wasn't what I needed.

I did see a video of Jordan Rudess demoing the Korg Kronos and he did mention and demonstrate that the Kronos had seamless patch transitions, which is exactly what I was looking for. However, I wonder if a workstation like that is overkill when I would really only be using about four sounds.

Top
#2021344 - 01/25/13 07:54 PM Re: Keyboard Patch Transition [Re: Tyruke]
Tyruke Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 64
Loc: Anaheim, California, USA
I just checked out NAMM today and had a chance to play a lot of keyboards. I was pleased to find out that the Kawai ES7 did exactly what I wanted in regard to switching patches. The only issue I had was I couldn't figure out how to make the sustain work on the string patches. Otherwise it sounded beautiful.

Top
#2021348 - 01/25/13 08:05 PM Re: Keyboard Patch Transition [Re: Tyruke]
dmd Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 2165
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Tyruke
I just checked out NAMM today and had a chance to play a lot of keyboards. I was pleased to find out that the Kawai ES7 did exactly what I wanted in regard to switching patches. The only issue I had was I couldn't figure out how to make the sustain work on the string patches. Otherwise it sounded beautiful.


Could you explain what difficulty you had with string patches sustaining ?

I tried it on my ES7 and it worked as I would have expected.

It might be a little less noticeable with strings as they tend to linger anyway.

However, I did notice they stayed longer with the sustain pedal depressed than without.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, JBL LSR305 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

Top
#2021352 - 01/25/13 08:10 PM Re: Keyboard Patch Transition [Re: dmd]
Tyruke Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 64
Loc: Anaheim, California, USA
Well normally when I play string patches on other digital pianos, when I step on the sustain pedal the sound continues indefinitely until I let go.

On the string pad and warm string sound it didn't do that.

Top
#2021357 - 01/25/13 08:21 PM Re: Keyboard Patch Transition [Re: Tyruke]
dmd Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 2165
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Tyruke
Well normally when I play string patches on other digital pianos, when I step on the sustain pedal the sound continues indefinitely until I let go.

On the string pad and warm string sound it didn't do that.


You may wish to check that further.

I have never experienced that type of behavior on a dp.

Of course, I have really never attempted to sustain a tone indefinitely with only the sustain pedal pressed while releasing the keys.

None of the patches on the ES7 work that way. I tried them all.

The sustain pedal allows the tone to decay naturally instead of being dampened by the damper(s).

As far as I know, that is how they all work because that is the way an acoustic piano works.

But, as always ... I might be wrong.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, JBL LSR305 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

Top
#2021366 - 01/25/13 08:41 PM Re: Keyboard Patch Transition [Re: Tyruke]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10726
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Tyruke/dmd, this behaviour can be adjusted in the ES7's 'Basic Settings' menu.

From page 80 of the owner's manual:



Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2021380 - 01/25/13 09:29 PM Re: Keyboard Patch Transition [Re: Kawai James]
dmd Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 2165
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Tyruke/dmd, this behaviour can be adjusted in the ES7's 'Basic Settings' menu.


Well, there you go.

Just in the nick of time, I might add.

I was afraid this day was going to get away without me learning something new smile

Tyruke: I checked it out and it absolutely does work.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, JBL LSR305 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
Composer Statuettes
(ad) Teaching Music To Children
Teaching Music to Children
(ad) Yamaha Stage Pianos
Yamaha CP4 & CP40 Stage Pianos
(ads) PD - WNG - MH
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tours
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Split-Treble Upright Action
by Adam Schaaf 58265
07/30/15 01:19 PM
Example of Beat Speed Analysis
by Mark Cerisano, RPT
07/30/15 12:15 PM
The tremendous pressure while recording, then tempo Rage!
by DanL
07/30/15 11:47 AM
MIDI Record Strips
by d2g
07/30/15 11:45 AM
Another video of a Chopin-period Pleyel
by acortot
07/30/15 10:11 AM
What's Hot!!
New Forum for Selling Your Products or Services
--------------------
Historic Piano Documents
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
80,196 Registered Members
44 Forums
165,853 Topics
2,431,274 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission