Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2010876 - 01/07/13 09:56 PM When a Misstep Enhances A Piece
didyougethathing Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 545
Loc: New York
I've been listening to Werner Haas' complete piano works of Ravel for years now, and something that's always intrigued me is a certain area at the very end of the Tombeau Toccata.

Werner Haas Ravel Toccata
(Hover over the album artwork and click play)

It happens in the third-to-last measure, on either the last or second-to-last sixteenth note. There is a "wrong" note, that to me sounds like an A where there should be a B. I haven't pinpointed what exactly is going on, but I absolutely love it. That tiny little change, whatever it is, excites the heck out of me! It greatly enhances my enjoyment of an already amazing piece.

Others probably won't feel the same as I do, but it is strictly my personal preference. Are there examples like this that any of you out there are partial to? Or am I just crazy? grin

Top
Ad 800 (Pearl River)
Pearl River World's Best Selling Piano
#2010894 - 01/07/13 10:29 PM Re: When a Misstep Enhances A Piece [Re: didyougethathing]
RealPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 2340
Loc: NYC
Pianists who happen also to be composers sometimes find issues with other composers' music. I remember one of my own teachers, Leo Smit (also a composer) who altered notes (rarely) in Bach WTC or said he wished some of the pieces had a measure or two ore three more or fewer.
_________________________
Joe

www.josephkubera.com

Top
#2011001 - 01/08/13 05:33 AM Re: When a Misstep Enhances A Piece [Re: didyougethathing]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5265
Pianists occasionally misread scores, and perform and record the mistakes without the record producer noticing - or maybe he noticed and decided it wasn't worth correcting...

Even Radu Lupu did that in one of his Brahms recordings (Op.118 I think).

But composers also make mistakes - Ravel in the long final cadenza for his D major Concerto for instance - which most, but not all pianists correct. Jean-Philippe Collard plays that mistake as written by Ravel in his recording.
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

Top
#2011156 - 01/08/13 12:06 PM Re: When a Misstep Enhances A Piece [Re: didyougethathing]
didyougethathing Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 545
Loc: New York
I find this case interesting, because I'm pretty sure it's just a simple finger slip, not a conscious effort to change the note. For whatever reason I think it adds something special, not the fact that it's a mistake, but the note itself.

Top
#2011337 - 01/08/13 04:55 PM Re: When a Misstep Enhances A Piece [Re: didyougethathing]
pianoslacker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/07/12
Posts: 50
There's been a few times when I've been learning my pieces that I've gotten really excited over what seems to me a particularly daring harmony - then the come-down when I realise I've forgotten about a sharp in the key signature or something. Nowadays if I like a harmony I always double check before I get excited. smile

Top
#2011502 - 01/09/13 12:17 AM Re: When a Misstep Enhances A Piece [Re: didyougethathing]
Opus_Maximus Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/04
Posts: 1494
My old teacher had an eloquently poetic way to describe exactly what you're describing here in this thread:

"It's kind of like when you prepare to say "I love you", to somebody for the first time. In the actual moment, you may be so nervous that when you say it you croak - the words don't come out clearly. This mishap - this mistake caused by your nerves and the vulnerability it reveals - can actually be MORE of a touching, human, and beautiful gesture than if the words came out correctly".


This metaphor of course, only applies to somebody who is totally immersed in their passionate, prepared performance smile

Top
#2011713 - 01/09/13 01:47 PM Re: When a Misstep Enhances A Piece [Re: Opus_Maximus]
quodlibet Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 68
Loc: Seattle, WA
I'm reading Alex Ross's book Listen to This, and in his chapter on Marlboro he writes, of a performance by Mitsuko Uchida, "She also issued a smattering of wrong notes, as if in tribute to Serkin's philosophy of seeking the perfection beyond precision--the truth of the noblest, most honest effort."

I just adored that quote and, since it seemed relevant to this discussion, wanted to share it.

Top
#2011725 - 01/09/13 02:11 PM Re: When a Misstep Enhances A Piece [Re: Opus_Maximus]
didyougethathing Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 545
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Opus_Maximus
My old teacher had an eloquently poetic way to describe exactly what you're describing here in this thread:

"It's kind of like when you prepare to say "I love you", to somebody for the first time. In the actual moment, you may be so nervous that when you say it you croak - the words don't come out clearly. This mishap - this mistake caused by your nerves and the vulnerability it reveals - can actually be MORE of a touching, human, and beautiful gesture than if the words came out correctly".


This metaphor of course, only applies to somebody who is totally immersed in their passionate, prepared performance smile


Very nicely put! smile

Top
#2011984 - 01/09/13 11:44 PM Re: When a Misstep Enhances A Piece [Re: didyougethathing]
Arghhh Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 1146
I don't think this quite what you were getting at in your first post, but there are times where I like mistakes in the music. The end of the third piece in Kreisleriana has, for me, an enraged character. My favorite recording of this is one of Horowitz's, where he missed a lot of the notes.

For example, there this one:
Horowitz at La Scala

The recordings where everything is note-perfect and has impeccable clarity are too clean to convey the character.

Top

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
8 Live Ragtime Piano Players on the Cape!
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Hammond Repair?
by tjbron
10/22/14 11:49 AM
Sight-reading books or resources for a beginner?
by Giancarlo Robles
10/22/14 10:52 AM
Typical % markup on price dealer pays for a piano
by pianoloverus
10/22/14 10:24 AM
calling all users of Ivory II American D
by dire tonic
10/22/14 08:29 AM
Staying in one position for too long - tension
by DeadPoets
10/22/14 06:07 AM
Who's Online
145 registered (Almaviva, 36251, anamnesis, ajames, AndresD, anotherscott, 39 invisible), 1696 Guests and 16 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76613 Members
42 Forums
158413 Topics
2326353 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission