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It is not a big deal and I can live with it but I do intend to contact Kawai and ask them about it.

I'm afraid I do not understand your question.

James
x

Hello, I use to play the ES6 on visits to Sam Ash in New York- really like the action and speaker layout.

In New Jersey is there a dealer or list of dealers that sell these?

Possum, there is a dealer locator on the Kawai America website:

http://kawaius.com/locator2012.html

You may also wish to drop them a line to enquire into dealers in your area:

http://kawaius.com/nav_links/contacts2010.html

Cheers,
James
x

From this I gather you do have some issues with key noises. Would you care to elaborate so we can understand the nature of your defect? For instance, a short description and time you've had these issues since your unit was new from the box.




I mean to say if you could tell us if Kawai is already producing a second or third line of ES7 digital pianos, in regards to manufacturing improvements that are expected from any kind of industry.

That is a quote from my comment so I assume you are asking me to elaborate on an issue with my ES7.

I have noticed from time to time that certain keys (middle E, and 1 octave up from middle E) seem to sound quite "tinny" when struck with more than light touch. It is not always real noticable and I have been able to EQ it out through my mixer somewhat, but it definitely is there.

Some might say that I am being too picky, and maybe I am. I hear it but I cannot say that the casual listener would hear it in the context of playing a piece of music.

So, I am not sure if I will pursue it.

I'm not aware of any 'second or third line' of ES7 instruments. To my knowledge, Kawai's digital piano facility produces instruments continuously everyone month.

Kind regards,
James
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dmd:

I see we are not talking about the same problem. Since you're using an EQ to neutralize this effect this implies that your problem lies from the internal sound source. I have noticed this 'tinny' or brilliant quality you speak of, which is kind of tiring and reminds of of tinnitus when using my heapdhones(pun unintended) – I accept this as a sampling characteristic/handicap. Besides, I will always expect piano-in-a-box sound deficiencies from DPs.

My problem is mechanical and happens when the key is returning to its natural position. It sounds like the typical spring sound used in old cartoons, and I think it is the weight attached to the opposite side of the key (weighted hammer) bouncing onto something as it stabilizes to its resting position.



Have you experienced this? How old is your ES7? It would be cool if other users joined this discussion so we can see if this is expected behavior from the ES7. I think not and hope you haven't had this issue.

@mabraman,

You are not the only one here that might have this ailment of tinnitus as I have lived with the high pitched ringing in my ears ever since I was a teenager, and, a lot of it was due to middle ear infections I suffered as a youth (i.e., the subsequent surgeries I went through by being put under with ether gas that probably took away some brain cells along with the tubes they stuck into my eardrums to drain off fluid), so this is something you never get rid of.

The tinnitus I have contributes to the fuzzy and buzzing sounds I hear in the Kawai CA95's piano sounds, as others tell me they do not hear this when I make recordings in an attempt to illustrate it. The piano is apparently not at fault, but my ears are.

Would probably be better off to become completely deaf (like Beethoven) so that one no longer has to bear with the ringing in the ears and then can concentrate on only the music we hear in our heads, instead.

I don't have a full-time tinnitus, yet, though here and there I hear some whistle that (luckily) dies in some seconds. I know I'll have this issue some day, as it's hereditary. And I know once it starts you just can´t do anything but to live with it (well, there's some brain re-education/workout that can be done to "ignore" that sounds).
By means of this (and for my ear sensitvity is superb) I am very carefull when listening to music, specially with earphones. Usually, 20% power is enough for me, while others need much more to enjoy the music. I simply get sore ears when playimg loud.

Regarding high pitches on the ES7, during this first weeks I've concluded that is its sound signature. ES7 default sounds are crystalline, which is good, but for some ear they might be too bright. Even too electronic. It's a very dynamic piano, too, and needs an accurate touch. Mellow options are warmer but maybe too looped and confusing. Waiting for Dewster and his review.
Besides, when you play through earphones there's some kind of "shok wave" that is very annoying. You must be very carefull on the attack and touch, or even better, tweak the sound in order to get some safe-and-pleasant-through-earphones-sound. But listen, this is not an specific ES7 issue, it's about every DP out there. What is good to be played through speakers doesn't work directly into ears.

About ringy notes...maybe some of them are hard to control. And by the way, the mellow pianos have some flat or weird notes too, not a big problem but I'll try to identify them all and then submitt it to Kawai. This could be related to 88 key sampling, where unevenness is more likely to happen. But hope it can be fixed by an update.

About the keybed...mine works perfectly so far. Even height and space, nice responsiveness (way better than school upright). My wife says she can hear it from the next room, but...who cares?

And last, my piano firmwear (purchased on December) was updated to 1.10 version, and I haven't had (proper) sound or key issues, so I asume it's not from "first generation".

FYI

I bought the Kawai ES7 last month and have a some very positive posts about it. However, I never mentioned that when I bought my ES7 and brought it home that night that the E4 key was dead - no sound. I immediately brought back to the dealer that night and he swamped it out for another new one without hesitation. Dealer said it's not uncommon that some of keyboards get damaged on delivery from manufacturer. The good news is Kawai (and my dealer) will resolve any issue in their power to make sure customer is satisfied. (... and no, i do not work for Kawai or any piano dealer.) or just simply run any Kawai issue by Kawai James first. He always has a quick response that puts you in the right direction.

note: After a month of playing the ES7 for hours each day, I like more than the day I got, especially because I learned most features that make the overall experience so enjoyable. Let me know if you have any questions.

No, I can't say that I have ... thankfully. I purchased my ES7 a little over a month ago. I have to say that other than what I described on those few keys, the sound has been excellent. I really enjoy playing it. I go back to the CA63 from time to time and run the sound through the same process as I have the ES7 attached to ... just to see if there is a real difference and I have to return quickly to the ES7. The sound (my opinion, of course) is definitely better on the ES7 than on the CA63. I am very pleased with this purchase.

Yesterday I made some changes on the GC 1 sound: set touch to heavy, added some bass/mid bass (+3 db) and less trebble (-1db), choosed dynamic voicing...and I liked it more (through headphones).


Here are some things I intend to do this weekend:

-Piano sound layering. I've read a CA93 thread where they share custom settings, and think it would be fine to do the same here.
-Tests for some different Bass/mid bass/mid/trebble balances.
-Then I'll try to record them all, and upload/link here. I'm specially interested in you to hear the Mellow sound, that I find strange sometimes.
-Play more through speakers. I'm getting tired of headphones, where I honestly can't hear a better sound, despite everyone here says so. It's strange that I can listen to HI-FI recordings with both my headphones without saturation problems and I'm not being able to get a good experience on ES7. Wish I could record that sound, in order to show it's not a matter of ears.
Time to go to boxes!!

Please put all my comments in perspective: I'm a beginner, so what I feel or hear could be related to my short experience,not to the piano.

P.S.: I need to check one more thing. I've just recalled that, when listening to Mp3 piano sound recorded via usb, and then listening through headphones, the sound is better (not annoying) than when I just play. Could it be possible, or am I dreaming?

I PM-ed you some tests you could perform to find out what could be the cause of your bad headphone experience. I personally have no problem with the ES7 headphone output whatsoever..., but as always there could be something that has to do with your particular unit.

mabraman - I think I experience (on my CA95, very similar technology no doubt) the same phenomenon which you describe as "jingling". When listening though headphones, no matter how low the master volume it always feels too much, I hear the pitched jingling or ringing or saturation artifacts which are usually present when the volume is too high. I remeber the same thing when I playtested other Kawai pianos at store (CA65 + others). When I used different headphones (borrowed from the store), it vanished. I know I have some hearing problems and it may be related but I believe it is caused by the headphones or the piano-headphones combination. I plan to buy different headphones for this reason (now I have some mid/low level closed Sennheisers). Nevertheless, I enjoy the sound in headphones more than the speakers.

Thanks for your answers. This afternoon I've been trying some new combinations, then playing and recording in WAV for more than an hour in order to get the most of it.
Sound through onboard speakers is not as clear and detailed as through headphones (I could say it's bad but don't want to be unfair), anyway artifacts that Hookxs mentioned above are still obvious. Therefore I'll play more this way from now on, or with headphones at a very low level. I'm fed up with it.
A last try would be to test some open-bach headphones, or running the sound through some external amp. and then to monitors or even back to DP, as someone suggested.
Increasing the recording level on 4db has worked fine. No clicks so far, and sounds REALLY well (despite me) trough some Onkyo amp. and B&W speakers (even using a laptop to read the files). Half blast required. So my guess is, that some annoying sound could be due to the quality (ok, let's say personality) of DP's amp. combined with the quality of my own ears.
Next monday I'll upload some recordings.

Hi,

I don't fully get all the different configurations you tried, but :

1) When you connect the output of the DP to your external receiver/amplifier and then listen to the headphone output of this amplifier , is then everything OK without any of the ringing / distortion you experience ? Using the same headphones of course.

2) when you record directly to USB stick in WAV format and play back this file on good external equipment over the same headphones , is then everything OK too ??

When both is a YES, the fault could be a bad headphone output on your ES7 unit.

When there is NO difference, then it's possible we're talking about the sound character of the AP sound of the ES7. So I also wonder if OTHER sounds then AP give the same bad experience over the ES headphone output, or even a reference recording you play back directly from USB stick on the ES ? If it is ONLY with the AP sound , chances are its the sound itself you may dislike....

These few tests will tell a lot about what's happening. By the way don't expect studio monitor quality sound from the internal speakers. They serve a different purpose and are in no way in the same perfect speaker body, shape, position and have a linear frequency curve. They are "build-in speakers"...they should be enjoyable and loud enough to play, not serve as a reverence.

Thanks again, JFP for such clever advice!!
I did what you suggested me to try, in order to determine if its my ears, or headphones, or amp...:

Clarification: just for solo piano sounds playing easy smooth pieces. Mechanical noises off. The rest set to default.

1.-Testing both headphone inputs: I'd swear that right side sounds slightly better than left, but honestly I was too tired, or influenced, to distinguish at that level of details. They both work fine, at least. Neither clicks nor scratches, or background noises.

2.-Recording some tunes (+4db gain;WAV format).

3.-Listening to them trough different headphones (sennheiser HD250; Vic Firth SI H1)on the ES7: sounds better to me with Vic Firth's. I don't know why. They have both the same impedance (32 ohm.)and almost the same sound pressure level, but Vic Firth's smooths the sound and lowers it. I guess, as they are designed for drummers, there must be some healthy filtering going on. Sennheiser sounds more clear and loud, therefore more noisy. Harsh might be the word. Saturation is obvious on both headphones, but defining it as "too much power for a certain membrane to bear"...it could be my eardrums and not the piano amp.

4.-Listening to them trough piano speakers: saturation (but hardly distortion) at max. volume is obvious, it sounds better from 3/4 down. Board is all plastic and metal and speakers are small and cheap, so no surprise (though it's not a cheap DP!!). Sounds less annoying than headphones, but there is something going wrong with it. I think that these piano sounds are very powerful, "realistic" and clear in some way (thats why we choosed Kawai)and the amp. inside just can't manage them properly. I'll work more in reducing high-pitched to see what I can do to make my daily practice more comfortable. But now I understand those saying Kawais sound harsh. It's not the sound engine, but the final product.

5.-Listening to them trough a laptop--->headphone input---->Onkyo Hi-Fi amplifier external input----->Bower & Wilkins speakers: you need half its power to reach a decent volume, and IT SOUNDS VERY WELL INDEED. Did my ears suddenly change?

6.-Listening through Onkyo amp. with headphones: rattly sounds when listening to +4db recordings, but it could be the headphone input of my amp. Despite of it, the sound was cleaner to my ears, I mean that excessive briliance vanished to bearable levels.

Don't bother, this boring/hilarious syntax post is about to end.

Conclusions:

a) The more headphones/external amp. strains it, the better (in terms of high-pitch) the sound is.
b) Maybe closed back headphones are not the best option, because some pitches need more room.
c)The internal amp. could be better to match its own piano samples. I realize it happens to almost every DP (cheap components), so much people ends using external amps or mixers, and VSTs.
d)This happens mostly with AP sounds (what a paradox!) and not with EP (which you expect to sound electronic),strings, choir or even vibs (this one sounds almost perfect, and it's strange in such a hard instrument to equalize due to hi-pitch). This also happens when you add reverb, exept with room. Strange again, when default sounds include small hall!
e)The accoustic piano sounds, therefore, are balanced in a way that can't satisfy certain ears. You'll need some extras to get the most out of it (like in most other DP's)if you are the kind.
f)what you hear in youtube official demos is not what you'll hear out of the box. Try some other videos and you'll hear some not so slight differences.
e)you need to join this kind of forums so as to learn the basics, because some DP's are setup to be bought, not to play music.

As music and sounds (and everything that regards to perception) can't be objectively judged, please put above words in perspective.
ES7 works very well, the only point it could be clearly better is just the sound balance.

mabraman, I agree that sound cannot be judged objectively.



Which parts are plastic?



To my knowledge, the sound heard in the videos is recorded directly from the instrument - there is no additional processing.

Kind regards,
James
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James, the whole case and a good part of the speakers are plastic made. I supposed that could give some colour to the sound trough speakers, but maybe I'm wrong, since I've always lived in a cave and never listened to music before (ironic mode off). Even headphones are plastic made. What a question!!
I'm not talking bad about ES7, I'm just a customer whose money was perfect "out of the purse". I come here to beg for some help in order to get the better sound, as I admit(from the very beggining of each post) that I know almost nothing.
But I'm not stupid. When I listen to official videos USING THE SAME HEADPHONES TROUGH A LAPTOP OR PC it sounds waaayyy better than my piano.It's not how they play, but how it sounds!! When I listen to any music it sounds well, too, I just need to adjust the power to suit my taste, either in my computers or hifi system or pc at work.
When I record what I play (wich sounded harsh and, I thought, was my fault as I'm a begginer player) and listen to it on other systems it sounds better ALWAYS, wether you and me like it, or not.
Believe me, as a player I'm a crap, but as a listener I'm 45 years experienced.