Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum What is your merit system? Are we materialistic?

I remember reading an interview, a teacher in Argentina was being interviewed and he was asked how does teaching music in Argentina differ to teaching music in the US? He answered very tactfully yet emphatically that he believe in the US and I'm sure he was referring to the rest of the western world, teachers are materialistic. Materialistic in the sense that we give students lollies and stickers rather than hugs and smiles. It's obvious he comes from a country were it is culturally acceptable for male teachers to be hugging students, but it made me think a lot.

As a novice teacher, even though I could get away with it - being female and all, I generally don't hug students. There are exceptions to this - e.g. before a recital one of my students ran up to me, she gave me a nervous hug. I give them high fives and stickers. The stickers are normally earned. If something is really hard to learn and really boring to learn (e.g. technique) I even said I'd get him/her a present if he/she can get it right. My mum who works in childcare went off at me, she told me that was a bribe and I felt bad for bribing the kid ... but I reasoned and said it was a reward, it was incentive, not blackmail.

Anyway, what is your merit system? Do you ever stop and wonder if it's bribery or materialistic at all?

I give stickers, and kids love them. I've been thinking about this too. One of my students learns a few instruments (she has lessons in violin, flute, piano, african drumming and singing), and whilst piano gets 10 minutes a week look in on a good week, she tells me she regularly practices flute. This is because the flute teacher has a system where if they practice for 60 minutes a week (broken up however they like) they get a sticker, and once they get 20 stickers they get to choose a reward out of a box filled with trinketty items like pretty erasers etc. This sounds like not much financial outlay to get non-practicers to the piano bench. But then I wonder at the niggling details, like when you *know* the kid hasn't practiced but their parent has signed off that they have...

Oh, and I hug kids, but only returning hugs, not intitiating them. I had a kid relay to me that her mother had said I "hug her too much" (this kid is EXCEPTIONALLY huggy, to the point of having made me uncomfortable numerous times, so it was one of those "say what?!" moments) which made me even more cautious with hugging kids. Some parents don't like it.

I wonder if there is a more direct difference in the timing of reward.

We all know it takes years of work for a rewarding level of skill to develop.

Weeks of work to earn a sticker. A perfect piece gets you a hug.

But the science tells us rewards become less effective after 0.8 seconds. Dog trainers have realized this, and the modern ones are doing amazing things with marker training, using a clicker or voice to reward the dog immediately on correct behavior or sometimes just a move in the direction of correct behavior, long before he could eat a treat.

Maybe the point of the Argentinian system is just that the smile or touch is instant rather than delayed.

Positive reinforcer: a stimulus, presented contingently following a target behavior, which results in an increase in the rate, frequency, or intensity of the target behavior.

If stickers or hugs increase the behavior that you want, then they are reinforcers. Otherwise, they're just stickers and hugs.

I suspect that a significant component of master teachers is their unconscious reinforcement of precursors to the target behaviors.

I think Morodienne would call that Fractional Anticipatory Goal Response.

I have a big basket of stickers, but I so rarely use them. I have high expectations of my students, but because I lay them out in such a way that they can be successful, I can give them genuine positive reinforcement, and that is better than a sticker any day. They keep coming back to the piano because they can do what is asked, they feel successful and they can enjoy what they are doing -- get some kind of fulfillment. The real prize is the music. They get to make music.

Here in three sentences Minniemay has distilled a superb philosophy of piano teaching!

Food for thought. Why merit system at all?

My daughter's teacher doesn't use stickers. She does "tell it like it is". If she does well in a lesson her teacher will say she did well. That means a lot to my daughter. When she has an off lesson her teacher will say so. My daughter is okay with that because she knows it was an off lesson as well. And that is motivational to do better the next week.

It's not for everyone.

As private piano instructors, we get to pick and choose which method best suits each individual student.

For example, some kids thrive on exams. I send quite a few kids each year to take exams so that they'll feel like they're on the right track. On the other hand, there are kids who are not stimulated enough by exams, so they need higher, more difficult goals. Hence, festivals and competitions. And yet there are kids for whom even exams are too stressful, and they'll quit except that their folks won't let them. What would you do for this last group of kids?

All of these things are extrinsic. There is the wish to learn things because you want to learn them, master them, they intrigue you or whatever. In that case you focus is on the math, the playing, the piece or whatever. When we introduce external things, then the focus shifts away from the thing being learned. A little kid learning to walk who keeps getting up and falling down keeps at it because he wants to walk. Our praise and encouragement may keep him going, but his goal is walking.

Supposing that a student wants to learn to play the piano, and play music on the piano. That is not "passing exams", or "getting praise", or "getting a lollipop". Those are not his goals.

For the person who talked about the teacher saying that this was done well, and this needs work - If you are aiming to play the piano, then you need to know when you're going in the right direction, when you're going off track, and what you need to do to get there. This is a different kind of motivation. Merit things take away form that. And I do think that this kind of motivation is natural to children. Sometimes (often?) it's been taken away from them and then you need carrots.

Our society is deploring the entitlement mentality, but we have created our own monster.

I believe this is true of those students, of any age, who are destined to become real players. The rest . . . ?

Nannerl Mozart’s reference to the Latin cultures of South America made me think of the Cuban pianist Ruben Gonzalez (Buena Vista Social Club). Here is a gentleman who, in recounting his childhood and learning to play the piano, mentioned that, only after he showed some talent in playing the piano, did his parents arrange for lessons. His parents, as I recall, were also musicians. Could this be important? First he showed he had talent and desire, and THEN was “rewarded” by lessons!

And how about this? (Again, Senõr Gonzalez’ own account): After seven or eight years of taking lessons, his teacher (finally) complimented him by saying that he had good potential, and that he should consider further study to become a professional player.

In his account of his childhood and adolescent learning of the piano, Senõr Gonzalez speaks of his hands, of the eventual purchase of that upright family piano (“I went crazy!”), and of his love for the sound of the music. Strangely absent from this recounting of those days are things like stickers, lollipops, hugs, tests, and competitions.

Personally, I am certain that ALL those rewards (stickers, lollipops, hugs, tests, and competitions) were there - he just neglected to mention them. After all, how else could he have achieved such mastery of the instrument?

Ed

But it's not. That's the thing. My students, by and large, are average.

Average students can become real players. I read the text differently. And the last omitted line as tongue in cheek.

Yes! Absolutely! And if the drive and desire "to walk" is not within us - either inherently, or by eventual strong inspiration - then we will only "walk" until the carrots run out, or until we find we no longer like carrots.

Ed

And I took it to mean professionals.

Well, maybe they are average, and maybe they are not. Only time will tell WHAT THEY BECOME. Meanwhile, they seem to be learning from their teacher that music, and the making of music, is its own reward. And, as your other post so aptly states, accomplishment carries with it its own reward too.

For me, when I played well, my ears were my reward. That was more than enough.

I blame the failing public school system.