Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum why won't students ask their teachers?

The holidays for a few weeks is indeed a problem. But I see a hiccup in 2 and 3. I don't know if your teacher is forming you as a pianist (technique etc.) or just advising you on how to interpret pieces. If it is the former, then your teacher is advising you, expecting you to be doing that at home, and then in the next lesson will see how that advice works. If you have practised something that someone else has told you, that puts a spanner into it.

The idea of "being prepared" is not that of playing a piece very well. It means having done what was suggested to the best of your ability, so that whatever it is that a teacher wants to bring it can start growing. Again, that is with the assumption that the teacher is shaping the student rather than working on interpreting pieces alone.

To add to KeyString's very diplomatic response, this idea will NOT WORK if your teacher is a good one, AND you wish to continue with her/him for very long.

Most teachers have well developed teaching philosophies, involving certain approaches to subjects, and a defined order of presentation. In the end, everything will be covered, learned, and complete. When one goes off on his own, he breaks out of that nicely structured environment. We wish you well . . .

I really like how you said this. It does involve a great deal of trust in the abilities of your teacher to simply do what is asked and not add to it, embellish it, and interpret it. Often it's these latter additions to a task that cause a student to slow their progress and self-destruct. I'm speaking in terms of technique, not in terms of a student adding their own musical interpretations - this I encourage and love to hear from students.

The reasons for students posting in the teacher forum are varied. If a student has a teacher, and as soon as the teacher advises something the student asks here what he could be doing instead, that is unfair to the teacher, shows a lack of trust and respect. It also undermines the learning process. So that's one scenario.

Student has teacher, cannot understand instructions, and has tried asking many times. Sometimes getting it from a different angle can break the impasse. If it happens constantly then there is more wrong and maybe the student should look for a different teacher.

Students can also be timid and not know what's ok to ask. I think the teacher reaction here is loud and clear, saying "We want to be asked, and feel bad if you ask strangers rather than your own teacher."

That said, there are other situations. You go to your lesson every week, there's a routine, everyone plays his role. Somehow in that routine you feel you don't really know what's ok or expected and there seems to be no way of finding out - you don't quite know what to ask or how to ask it. If you do try to say anything you come out as a blithering idiot, confusing and worrying your teacher. Anyone who has been there will recognize it. If you started lessons as a kid, your parent took care of that. (Parent might be in that situation, though). .... better to have the initial long rambly confusing paragraphs here, and get it sorted out, than getting stuck "out there". In that case the advice a student gets might go far in lessons afterward. If students understand the teacher world, and vice versa, it makes for better communication in the long run.

There is also inept teaching, misguided teaching, harmful teaching, and misteaching. Being in unfamiliar territory in the first place, a student or parent only has a vague feeling that "something seems to be wrong here". Most of the time it starts with "what is wrong with me" and what am I doing wrong". There is a need for information and perspective in order to sort it out.

The teacher-student world also has a history that students won't know about. Thus we get the student planning to become an organist of Baroque music who got advice from organists, joined their guild, followed that advice with a teacher for several years and then had to stop. When he tried to resume, no teacher would take him. He had no idea of the negative experiences teachers have with adults, how his legitimate requests would be interpreted. That had to be found out in a forum, i.e. here.

But for what tenleftthumbs was talking about, ..... well actually tlt, if you are accessible and open to your students as you seem to be, the chances are low that your students wouldn't ask you. Or how about inviting older students or parents to ask things they might have been shy to ask, so they know the door is open.

I see this as also being as informed as possible on the question I want to ask, not just practicing what I understand the instructions to be - those are 2 very different things.

For example, if I'm going to consult with someone to replace my windows, I want to learn something so I can ask intelligent questions and understand the replies.
I do homework and research on the topic.

Sometimes that's what I'm doing in PW, for things I will later discuss with my teacher.

I'm starting to wonder though, if the teachers here would prefer to not have questions from other forum members?

Do you see it as an infringement of your time here? Or do you see it as somehow possibly "undermining" colleagues? Would you be upset if your students were asking questions here before approaching you / instead of approaching you? I can see that "instead of" could be frustrating and disappointing - but as well as?

On the other hand - no one is obliged to respond to a post if they don't want to.....

I agree with LoPresti that sometimes the depth of detail in a set of replies can be more confusing that helpful - and in part that's due to a lack of understanding about how much the OP in the case has as background support information, and in part because sometimes OPs don't actually know how to phrase their questions.

There's another reason it can be helpful to ask questions here - (or in another PW forum) - it can clarify our ideas and help us understand WHAT we have to ask, to get the right words.
A number of folks have lessons which are not taught in English - could be Italian, French, German, Russian even Japanese.....and that adds a whole new set of complications to an already challenging activity!

I'm adult, not a kid that needs or even accepts everything spoon fed. On the contrary, a good teacher must be prepared to defend his position and philosophies, and to compare it with other approaches. Also, this may involve me trying things that the teacher would not advocate but can be learned only by trying. We (teacher and me) sometimes have a good discussion about technique, interpretation etc. I highly value these discussions, they learn me more than just his philosophy but also the foundations behind it and the goals he is aiming at. And my teacher in fact is very happy to do this.

Of course I'm not ignoring the teacher's suggestions. What I'm saying is that (1) I'm also trying alternative solutions and interpretations (2) I'm doing a lot more in a week than we can go through in an hour.

Questions are the nature of the forum. If I choose to answer, then I am happy to answer. It's certainly not an infringement of my time.

I would hope if a student of mine had a question they would ask me first, and not worry that I would laugh if they express themselves inexpertly. I know what their 'plan' is, and how something else might fit into it.

Yes I am a little bit worried about undermining or criticising a teacher who is, after all, my colleague.

Mostly, I get worried when a question receives answers which are unhelpful. Mostly, they are not wrong, but often they are fuelled by the poster's desire to look clever.

I do appreciate some students will want to check that what is happening is normal, and every now and then someone will spot that they are not getting a good deal with their teacher.

I did once ask a guitar-related question on an international guitar forum, just two days after a lesson. I didn't ask my teacher because I wasn't a regular student, it was just a one-off lesson. There was a mis-print in the book, in the page just beyond what we had covered in the lesson, and I was confused. You'll never guess who answered - my teacher!

I liked all your reply TLT, (especially the coincidence of your teacher answering your question on the forum!) so forgive me for just chopping this bit out, but it really caught my attention.

Even though I know my teacher would never laugh at me - and I know, that as a teacher I don't laugh at my students, and I encourage them to ask lots of questions --- I still very much understand their fears of looking silly and their discomfort, as much as I recognize my own hesitation to "put myself out there" as someone who is just "not getting it". (whatever the "it" might be at the moment).

What's a bit funny, considering our discusison, is that I have actually hesitated or avoided posting in the forums for the same reason - I sometimes fear my question is just too basic for folks to bother with. It isn't a rational fear, it is purely emotional and ego, but there you go. Human nature.
Thank goodness for search engines! Someone has almost always asked the same question I wanted to. More power to them!

Was that you I heard in the hall outside my lesson?
I don't think my teacher is worried though, he's used to it.

OK. Following is an adult-style example - advanced student, competent teacher:
Key signatures, scales, intervals, and chord construction are all very closely related topics in the muscial cocktail.

Philosophical Question #1: Do I teach that the key signature dictates the steps in major scales and modes; OR should I teach that the order of steps in the major scale (say) creates the key signature?
?? Why is this important ??
Because the answer will govern whether I, the teacher, will first cover key signatures or scale (mode) construction.

Philosophical Question #2: Do I teach basic chord construction as stacks-of-thirds; OR as certain notes extracted from scales; OR as intervals above a common root?
?? Why is this important ?? _ _ _ hopefully, everyone now gets the idea. And from that, can we predict what will happen to our eclectic student, who likes to collect all points of view before deciding? It is a recipe for confusion, and probably failure.

Discussion of approach is fine if the student is up to it. Deciding for oneself on how to proceed in contrast to one’s teacher’s requests is historically one of those recipes.

Ed

I help out with teaching computer programming to a group of high school students every week. I've noticed over the years that the more involved and enthusiastic the students are, the more likely they are to do this: work on side problems that pique their interest, further investigate issues that were brought up in class, go down their own path of discovery. Maybe music requires a different sort of learning? But I'm pretty sure that if my teacher resented me going off on my own sometimes, I wouldn't be with him for very long.

I can't say exactly when I learned, but as a dyslexic kid, I just kept my mouth shut and ran home and couldn't remember what was said so I failed few grades. I know by 40 I lerned to say, sorry, I am dyslexic and I can't remember what you are saying and could you write it down for me, please, be it a doctor, a judge, a boss, anybody in the world. Do you know how difficult that would be to most kids, most adults, most anybody. I do it all the time. But I am 63. I know how important it is to understand something and what a horrible lost to your life if you don't do what you have to do to survive. Most people don't want to look stupid at any cost to them, their family, their peers, their teachers, especially their boss who won't promote them, give them a raise, may fire them.

Quickly a story, I had an old harley motorcyle and a younger friend of mine said he knew somebody who get the old harley working. My young friend I quickly learned couldn't do anything with a screwdriver or wrench, but I was pretty good at that, so we would drive to the mechanic and my young friend would listen to the instructions by the mechanic and then when we would go to my garage. My friend would remember all the instuctions but I would do the work.

Bright people always ask questions because they want to look bright and are bright and usually know the answer. When was the last time a person asked you a stupid question - and what did you say or think?

Now you know: why won't students ask their teachers?

I can't say exactly when I learned, but as a dyslexic kid, I just kept my mouth shut and ran home and couldn't remember what was said so I failed few grades. I know by 40 I lerned to say, sorry, I am dyslexic and I can't remember what you are saying and could you write it down for me, please, be it a doctor, a judge, a boss, anybody in the world. Do you know how difficult that would be to most kids, most adults, most anybody. I do it all the time. But I am 63. I know how important it is to understand something and what a horrible lost to your life if you don't do what you have to do to survive. Most people don't want to look stupid at any cost to them, their family, their peers, their teachers, especially their boss who won't promote them, give them a raise, may fire them.

Quickly a story, I had an old harley motorcyle and a younger friend of mine said he knew somebody who get the old harley working. My young friend I quickly learned couldn't do anything with a screwdriver or wrench, but I was pretty good at that, so we would drive to the mechanic and my young friend would listen to the instructions by the mechanic and then when we would go to my garage. My friend would remember all the instuctions but I would do the work.

Bright people always ask questions because they want to look bright and are bright and usually know the answer. When was the last time a person asked you a stupid question - and what did you say or think?

Now you know: why won't students ask their teachers?

I can't say exactly when I learned, but as a dyslexic kid, I just kept my mouth shut and ran home and couldn't remember what was said so I failed few grades. I know by 40 I lerned to say, sorry, I am dyslexic and I can't remember what you are saying and could you write it down for me, please, be it a doctor, a judge, a boss, anybody in the world. Do you know how difficult that would be to most kids, most adults, most anybody. I do it all the time. But I am 63. I know how important it is to understand something and what a horrible lost to your life if you don't do what you have to do to survive. Most people don't want to look stupid at any cost to them, their family, their peers, their teachers, especially their boss who won't promote them, give them a raise, may fire them.

Quickly a story, I had an old harley motorcyle and a younger friend of mine said he knew somebody who get the old harley working. My young friend I quickly learned couldn't do anything with a screwdriver or wrench, but I was pretty good at that, so we would drive to the mechanic and my young friend would listen to the instructions by the mechanic and then when we would go to my garage. My friend would remember all the instuctions but I would do the work.

Bright people always ask questions because they want to look bright and are bright and usually know the answer. When was the last time a person asked you a stupid question - and what did you say or think?

Now you know: why won't students ask their teachers?

I am a big fan of “discovery”, MaryBee. In fact, on the Forums here, when someone is approaching a problem, rather than lay out a complete solution, I prefer to give hints that lead that person to discovering their own solution.

But just for the sake of discussion, of those enthusiastic, budding programmers, when all the extra-curricular discovery is done, can they actually write a properly structured set of code? Can they construct a properly functioning loop? How about accurate “do whiles . . .”, and “IF . . . then, else . . . then, else . . . end if”? Can they handle the memory stack? Can they explain their algorithms in plain English?

For me, extra learning is fine -- it’s better than fine -- it is wonderful! But when (if) the “discovery” dilutes, confuses, gets in the way of, or replaces learning the BASICS, its net effect becomes negative

Don't most of the adult student questions in this forum come from beginning or intermediate students?

Maybe I just don't pay attention to the advanced ones, or maybe I don't know what they are talking about.

Yes, absolutely. In the above quote, I was addressing Wouter's statement that he is an adult who does not enjoy being "spoon fed".

Amen. I've done a lot of teaching of a lot of different topics, and I've found this to be true. No, I don't think it's different with music. Or dance. Or sports. Or math. Or composition. Or business. Or anything else I've ever taught.

And yeah, they learn how to actually do the stuff.

Cathy

I think there is a difference in the kinds of help a student seeks. If a student is expanding their learning, that is one thing. However, if they are not understanding what was taught, that's another.

If my student doesn't understand what we worked on, I need to know that so that I can determine what the student needs not only now, but in the future. Otherwise, we get into this cycle of the teacher thinking everything is going along just fine, while the student is increasingly seeking outside intervention.

This sometimes happens with parents that are trying to be helpful, but end up impeding the entire process because I don't know the struggles the student had at home. For example, the parent just gives the student direct answers (like playing everything for them) and I hear them at the lesson and they sound just fine, but I don't know they didn't learn the piece by reading it. I need to know what the student isn't "getting" so I can find different ways for the student to learn and be independent in their practice.