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#2011527 - 01/09/13 02:01 AM What size monitor speakers?
thercman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 147
Loc: Spokane WA, United States
Hey guys!

So currently I have two KRK Rokit 5 speakers for my studio. They do lack a bit in low end since they are only 5" woofers. With that being said I was thinking about maybe using these for my stage piano and upgrading to a set of Rokit 8's to get a little more power and low end for my recording stuff? So do you guys think the Rokit 5's will have enough low end for the keyboard? Currently they seem to lose a bit of oomph but I don't have anything to compare them too. Maybe I should keep the 5's on the desk for now and get the 8's for the piano. Essentially I would like to have the best representation of an actual AP that I can get.
_________________________
NP2, Arturia Laboratory 61

Addictive Keys, Kawai EX Pro
Heil PR-40 Mic, Allen & Heath Mixer, Yamaha HS80

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#2011541 - 01/09/13 03:13 AM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: thercman]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Just get the Rokit Sub .....
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2011622 - 01/09/13 09:14 AM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: thercman]
Kbeaumont Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 265
Loc: Virginia, USA
+1 Yes, I have the sub it really helps.
_________________________
A long long time ago, I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile....

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#2011693 - 01/09/13 12:48 PM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: thercman]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
I would say the same. The matching sub will complete your set.

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#2011736 - 01/09/13 02:34 PM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: gvfarns]
SIG77 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/12
Posts: 30
Loc: California, US
How is a sub connected in this setup? From a DP, there is no output to a sub so I assume a pre-amp or mixer is needed in between?
_________________________
Bosendorfer 185CS, Roland FP-7F, Yamaha PSR530

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#2011752 - 01/09/13 03:13 PM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: SIG77]
Kbeaumont Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 265
Loc: Virginia, USA
The inputs go directly to the sub and the sub has outputs for connecting the satellite speakers.

_________________________
A long long time ago, I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile....

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#2011891 - 01/09/13 08:18 PM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: thercman]
thercman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 147
Loc: Spokane WA, United States
Thanks guys I had considered the sub. I was however thinking about having a separate set of speakers just for the piano. Probably better to save my money though! :-)
_________________________
NP2, Arturia Laboratory 61

Addictive Keys, Kawai EX Pro
Heil PR-40 Mic, Allen & Heath Mixer, Yamaha HS80

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#2011897 - 01/09/13 08:31 PM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: thercman]
martijefre Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 7
I have the sub it really helps.
_________________________
Emily Brown

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#2012019 - 01/10/13 01:27 AM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: martijefre]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1415
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
The lowest "A" on the piano has a fundamental frequency of 27.5 Hz.

If you want to reproduce that, at realistic volume, a subwoofer is the way to go. Even the Rockit 8" speakers don't go that low.

. charles

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#2012113 - 01/10/13 07:22 AM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: thercman]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3837
Loc: North Carolina
Lots of speakers go that low. Speakers don't just "stop" at low frequencies. Rather, their response tapers off. The point at which a slight dropoff appears is specified as the lower limit. But a speaker with a 50 Hz spec can still produce adequate bass.

Note also that the energy of a piano's low octave is stronger in the overtones than at the fundamental. Sure, you want to capture some of the low end. But with a real-world speaker, the pattern of overtones fool the ear into hearing much of the reduced or missing fundamental.

But, if you insist on full response at 27 Hz, you'll need REALLY a big woofer. Lacking that ... as the fundamental drops down to that range, the response of so-called subwoofers have already begun to fall off ... just not as much as their smaller brethren.

You'll be hard-pressed to find a woofer that's flat (or close to flat) down to 27 Hz.

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#2012226 - 01/10/13 12:12 PM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: thercman]
Coldsalmon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 42
I have just been looking at the same issue, and decided to go with the KRK Rokit 6. If you look at the top-of-the-line digital pianos from Yamaha and Roland (The AvantGrand N3, for example), the largest speaker they use is 16cm -- just over 6 inches. This tells me that a 6-inch speaker is probably a good size for reproducing piano tones. If I need more bass response, I can always get a sub later. I've had the Rokit for about a month and I've been very happy with it.

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#2012363 - 01/10/13 04:45 PM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: thercman]
thercman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 147
Loc: Spokane WA, United States
Thanks for the info guys. I was unaware that the low "A" hit 27.5Hz. Wow! However we cannot even hear that low anyway only feel it right... So the Rokit 5's start to drop at 52Hz and the 6's about 48Hz. Not really sure how much that translates to audibly... As you guys mentioned the sub should help to extend the flat portion of the low end frequency response quite a bit. The spec reads 34Hz. I am thinking that would be plenty. The KRK 12sHO gets pretty close to 27.5Hz. "29.2Hz - 60Hz - 160Hz (L/R inputs), 29.1Hz - 211Hz (LFE input)" But I don't need that.. LOL
_________________________
NP2, Arturia Laboratory 61

Addictive Keys, Kawai EX Pro
Heil PR-40 Mic, Allen & Heath Mixer, Yamaha HS80

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#2012374 - 01/10/13 05:05 PM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: thercman]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
I used to use the 10 inch KRK sub and it seemed to do very well in the lower range--all the way down. In the very lowest notes, as I understand it, the piano mostly doesn't generate and we mostly don't hear the fundamental frequency (just the overtones) so actually representing the sound accurately down near 27 Hz isn't necessarily critical to representing a piano sound.

The 12 inch HO sub is some kind of beast (look at a picture of it next to a person for context some time). I have a hard time seeing it paired with any of their studio monitors in any context. I guess that could be my lack of imagination, though.


Edited by gvfarns (01/10/13 05:07 PM)

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#2012392 - 01/10/13 05:54 PM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: thercman]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3837
Loc: North Carolina
I'm using towers with 10" woofers. That's what we used to call woofer wannabees. But they're adequate for a piano.

It used to be that a proper woofer it was deemed 12" or more. Subwoofers were 15" or 18". So I grin when I see sales literature referring to 6" subwoofers. To me that's not even a woofer. It's a midrange speaker.

That was then. But today? Who says you can't fool most of the people most of the time?

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#2012456 - 01/10/13 08:08 PM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: MacMacMac]
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 624
to the OP- what piano are you using them with?

I use the KRK R5's with my Roland Juno- love the clarity of them. I had mackie MR5's and sold them- too MUCH bass.

I am now using them with my PX350; I kept the internal speakers on while using the monitors.

Do not think I am getting more bass of course, but am getting a little more power for the more mellow piano sounds
_________________________
Roland Juno Gi
Casio PX-130
Korg Krome 61
Korg SP280

Rokit KRK 6 monitors
MXL V67G microphone

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#2012586 - 01/11/13 02:20 AM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: thercman]
thercman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 147
Loc: Spokane WA, United States
Going to look for a pic of the 12". Sounds huge! (pun intended)

Mac, I hear ya! :-)

Possum, Currently I am using the Arturia 61 and a Novation Mini Nova for boards. Of course both have there own sounds and VSTs. I am also using the Kawai EX Pro VST and Addictive Keys.... In the next couple weeks I am picking up a Nord Piano 2. :-) Anyway I recorded a mix that I thought sounded good until I played it in my car with a 10" sub. Way to much bass! So I wasn't getting a good representation through the 5's. As you know synths can hit really low bass notes..



Edited by thercman (01/11/13 02:24 AM)
_________________________
NP2, Arturia Laboratory 61

Addictive Keys, Kawai EX Pro
Heil PR-40 Mic, Allen & Heath Mixer, Yamaha HS80

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#2021249 - 01/25/13 04:56 PM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: thercman]
SIG77 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/12
Posts: 30
Loc: California, US
_________________________
Bosendorfer 185CS, Roland FP-7F, Yamaha PSR530

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#2021338 - 01/25/13 07:35 PM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: SIG77]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: SIG77


Yes I used them as one of my main monitor set ups. They are very good but often slightly more expensive then the Rokits.


For a heads up Presonus have released new monitors and PA speakers @ NAMM that are VERY good indeed.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2021459 - 01/26/13 01:41 AM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: thercman]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1415
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
[quote=thercman. . .
With that being said I was thinking about maybe using these for my stage piano and upgrading to a set of Rokit 8's to get a little more power and low end for my recording stuff? So do you guys think the Rokit 5's will have enough low end for the keyboard? Currently they seem to lose a bit of oomph but I don't have anything to compare them too. Maybe I should keep the 5's on the desk for now and get the 8's for the piano. Essentially I would like to have the best representation of an actual AP that I can get. [/quote]

I have to ask the dumb question:

. . . Why don't you record through the "line out" or even "headphone out" connections?

That way, speaker limitations don't matter.

. Charles

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#2021642 - 01/26/13 12:45 PM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: thercman]
thercman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 147
Loc: Spokane WA, United States
Hey Charles. Yeah I can record just just fine directly through the mixer. The problem is listening to the recording back through the monitors to sample the mix. It is misleading. It will sound great then I take the mix to the car and there is way to much bass.
_________________________
NP2, Arturia Laboratory 61

Addictive Keys, Kawai EX Pro
Heil PR-40 Mic, Allen & Heath Mixer, Yamaha HS80

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#2021672 - 01/26/13 01:32 PM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: thercman]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1904
Loc: Pennsylvania
With all this speaker talk I thought it would be a good opportunity to check the specs on my Focal CMS 40 monitors and see what I could figure out.

I found something interesting.

My Focal CMS 40s showed 60Hz - 28Hz.

However, the Focal CMS 50s showed 55Hz-28Hz and the CMS 65x showed 45Hz - 28Hz.

I guess that means the my 40s can deliver more of the sound spectrum than the higher priced (much higher priced) 50s and 60s.

Of course, the 50s and 65s have higher MAX. SPL (Loudness before distortion) values.

So at low volumes the cheaper monitors are actually better than the higher priced ones.

Good to know.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2021701 - 01/26/13 02:35 PM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: thercman]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3837
Loc: North Carolina
dmd: Did you get your numbers jumbled up?

I presume the high end is 28 kHz, not 28 Hz.

Also, the numbers show that the 50s (55 Hz low end) and 65s (45 Hz low end) have a wider range than the 40s (60 Hz low end).

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#2022098 - 01/27/13 10:22 AM Re: What size monitor speakers? [Re: MacMacMac]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1904
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
dmd: Did you get your numbers jumbled up?

I presume the high end is 28 kHz, not 28 Hz.

Also, the numbers show that the 50s (55 Hz low end) and 65s (45 Hz low end) have a wider range than the 40s (60 Hz low end).


You are correct.

That shows you what I know.

I saw 60Hz - 28Hz and assumed the 28Hz was the low (which it would be as 28Hz).

In actuality it was 60Hz - 28kHz where 60Hz would be the low end.

Now it makes sense.

The Focal CMS 50 goes lower (50Hz) and the 65, lower yet (65Hz).

Thank You
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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