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#2011304 - 01/08/13 04:36 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3128
Loc: Northern England.
Wayne, that piece o` Mendels .. .op38/4; really really lovely! Enjoying putting it together, it was a good choice for my capabilities. Cheers, man!
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes — but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

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#2011391 - 01/08/13 06:59 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2227
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
There is a section which usually messes me up when I try to increase the tempo with the metronome
Firstly, it doesn't mess you up - you do the messing up. Secondly, don't try to increase the tempo. You will know when you can play it faster - though you may need some experience to know when you know!

The metronome doesn't speed you up; this is a common misconception. Playing slowly speeds you up! The metronome is to keep you in time at a tempo slow enough that you can play error free.

Increase the metronome when it's holding you up. Don't increase the metronome and try to keep up with it.

When you first learn a piece you may need to play at an inordinately slow tempo in order to practise moving every finger individually into place (micro-control). As the muscular actions become familiar they can be done more fluidly as a sequence or series of actions (macro-control) and the tempo will not gradually climb but jump up.

With continued slow practise the movements will gradually become automatic, without you consciously having to think or plan the sequences. At this stage the tempo will again jump up (sub-conscious control) and the brain can instead be actively monitoring the fine detail in expression, phrasing and so on.

If you use the metronome frequently you may find that at the first stage you are playing too slowly to need a metronome then suddenly you find yourself fluent. At this point you can start using the metronome to control your tempo until you can play faster.

I find that I plod along at half tempo for a good while but once I start 'getting it' the tempo goes from half speed to recital speed in a day or two.

The typical method of using a metronome is to drop back a couple of clicks when you start introducing errors - not play at that too fast rate until you get it. In other words, you practise at a slower tempo than you can play. What is not often realised is that playing below even that speed has exactly the same effect but with the reduced possibility of introducing errors.

If you're struggling to raise the pulse on one of your pieces, try setting the metronome slower for a week and try again at the weekend. Going from 108 bpm to 120 isn't done by pushing on to 112 bpm but by dropping back to 96 bpm.

Playing faster isn't about pushing the boundaries, it's about putting in the repetitions without error.
_________________________
Richard

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#2011395 - 01/08/13 07:06 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
BeccaBb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/11
Posts: 905
Loc: Thunder Bay, On Canada
Richard, hope you don't mind but I have copied that post onto my computer for future reference. That is the most detailed description yet! I was doing it all wrong!

Thank you! +1!!!!
_________________________
Becca
Began: 01-12-11


Floundering and Lost
Roland RD300NX

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#2011415 - 01/08/13 08:08 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
Valencia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 237
Thanks again Richard for the tip about working on half a bar at a time. I did that today for measures 22-25 and got quite close to being able to play them through from memory, which is encouraging. I'll keep working away like this at the sections and try not to worry about any deadline for the recital.

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#2011417 - 01/08/13 08:16 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
PianoStudent88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 2975
Loc: Maine
Richard, thank you for the clarifications and explanations! Must. curb. my. impatience.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#2011721 - 01/09/13 02:04 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
I'm glad your happy with your choice peterws smile

Richard, thnx for helping everyone out, you're a star smile

Book 1, op. 19b (1829–1830)
No. 1 Andante con moto in E major - Dipsy
No. 2 Andante espressivo in A minor - ragnhildK
No. 3 Molto allegro e vivace in A major - Evelyn S
No. 4 Moderato in A major - Devrie
No. 5 Poco agitato in F-sharp minor - Ganddalf
No. 6 Andante sostenuto in G minor - Recaredo

Book 2, op. 30 (1833–1834)
No. 1 Andante espressivo in E-flat major - Valencia
No. 2 Allegro di molto in B-flat minor
No. 3 Adagio non troppo in E major - PianoStudent88
No. 4 Agitato e con fuoco in B minor -DanS
No. 5 Andante grazioso in D major - Beric
No. 6 Allegretto tranquillo in F-sharp minor - LimeFriday

Book 3, op. 38 (1836–1837)
No. 1 Con moto in E-flat major - dire tonic
No. 2 Allegro non troppo in C minor - ROSSY
No. 3 Presto e molto vivace in E major
No. 4 Andante in A major - peterws
No. 5 Agitato in A minor
No. 6 Andante con moto in A-flat major - Sam S

Book 4, op. 53 (1839–1841)
No. 1 Andante con moto in A-flat major - IreneAdler
No. 2 Allegro non troppo in E-flat major - Ganddalf
No. 3 Presto agitato in G minor
No. 4 Adagio in F major - WiseBuff
No. 5 Allegro con fuoco in A minor - Sam S
No. 6 Molto Allegro vivace in A major -DanS

Book 5, op. 62 (1842–1844)
No. 1 Andante espressivo in G major - ZRTF90
No. 2 Allegro con fuoco in B-flat major
No. 3 Andante maestoso in E minor - ZRTF90
No. 4 Allegro con anima in G major
No. 5 Andante con moto in A minor - LimeFriday
No. 6 Allegretto grazioso in A major

Book 6, op. 67 (1843–1845)
No. 1 Andante in E-flat major - timmyab
No. 2 Allegro leggiero in F-sharp minor - dire tonic
No. 3 Andante tranquillo in B-flat major - timmyab
No. 4 Presto in C major
No. 5 Moderato in B minor - Pavel.K
No. 6 Allegro non troppo in E major

Book 7, op. 85 (1834–1845)
No. 1 Andante espressivo in F major - Valencia
No. 2 Allegro agitato in A minor - Wayne33yrs
No. 3 Presto in E-flat major
No. 4 Andante sostenuto in D major - Rupak Bhattacharya
No. 5 Allegretto in A major
No. 6 Allegretto con moto in B-flat major

Book 8, op. 102 (1842–1845)
No. 1 Andante un poco agitato in E minor - Greener
No. 2 Adagio in D major - FarmGirl
No. 3 Presto in C major - AimeeO
No. 4 Un poco agitato, ma andante in G minor - LadyChen
No. 5 Allegro vivace in A major
No. 6 Andante in C major - Greener

Come on guys, just 13 peices left, would be great to get them all covered by PW world members...... how about anyone from the Mr.S.H crew?

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#2011723 - 01/09/13 02:05 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
or the non-member lurkers...... get yourselves registered and signed up, it's really a great experience smile

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#2011776 - 01/09/13 03:54 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
Ganddalf Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 551
Loc: Norway
I have a vague feeling that this has been discussed here earlier, but I couldn't find anything by quick browsing in this rather long thread. Is it a requirement to have video recordings of our performance? This complicates matters a bit for me, as the only video recording device I have gives poor sound quality, while my Zoom sound recorder gives quite good sound, but no pictures.
What are you other participants using? I could consider acquiring a new video recorder, but it shouldn't be too expensive. Any suggestions?

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#2011779 - 01/09/13 04:10 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
You could merge the audio from your Zoom device, and the video from your camera, together using windows movie maker wink Or just make a picture slide-show like Recaredo does, or purchase a new video camera, it's entirely up to you smile

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#2011782 - 01/09/13 04:14 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
Greener Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1061
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Hi Ganddalf, I believe there are a few people in the same boat. Me for one, with no video. The good news is ... looks like there are some easy work-arounds. Yes, there was some previous discussion and I have dug up a few notes from this, that follow here ...

Originally Posted By: zrtf90

Wayne, is there an easy way to convert an mp3 file to a, er, whatever YouTube uses file or do we need to supply visuals (like me in my ABBA costume smile )?


Originally Posted By: wayne33yrs

Failing to record a video (In full Abba dresscode), you could make a slideshow with some pics, using windows movie maker, like Recaredo did for his M1 piece. Then convert it to flv (flash). I use Freestudiomanager.

http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/free-dvd-video-software.htm


Originally Posted By: Greener

Please let me know what you decide to do for this, Richard. I didn't realize in the beginning this recital was video only submissions. So, now trying to figure out a strategy as well.
...
My preference will be to actually get a camera and the whole deal, but to do it right will be pricy I'm finding and is not likely going to happen in this time frame.


Originally Posted By: zrtf90

I won't be getting a camera, Jeff, I'm not expecting to get anything more than a black/blank screen while the mp3 file plays! Maybe a picture of a coffin! (I'm doing the funeral march)
_________________________
“Inspiration is a guest that does not willingly visit the lazy.”
--Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky

            

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#2011785 - 01/09/13 04:17 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
Ganddalf Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 551
Loc: Norway
Hm... The Movie Maker option seems to be most appealing option. I'll check it out.

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#2011801 - 01/09/13 04:40 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
Do you guy's consider we should make a "Themed Recital Index" Thread? Say starting with themed recital 1, 2 .... this one, and then possible future ones? Maybe just the Recitals (without feedback) So it's like an index of our achievments. What you reckon?

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#2011829 - 01/09/13 05:40 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
casinitaly Offline

Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 4664
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: wayne33yrs
or the non-member lurkers...... get yourselves registered and signed up, it's really a great experience smile


Have you LOOKED at the titles of the ones left?

Allegro,
Allegro di molto,
Presto e molto vivace,
AGITATO !

Gordon Bennett !!! (no, that's not in the title smile )

I think any lurkers would have to be super courageous to take on any of those!

However, it really does look like the list is near completion!
Looking forward to the mega recital!


Edited by casinitaly (01/09/13 06:02 PM)
Edit Reason: because sometimes I can't spell!
_________________________
Interested in MOYD? Check out the RULES!
XVIII-XXXIII
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

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#2011836 - 01/09/13 05:55 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: casinitaly]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
Originally Posted By: casinitaly

Have you LOOKED at the titles of the ones left?

Allegro,
Allegro di molto,
Presto e molto vivace,
AGITATO !

Gordon Bennett !!! (no, that's not in the title smile )

I think any lurkers would have to be super courageous to take on any of those!



You only live once CasinItaly, wink


Edited by wayne33yrs (01/09/13 06:09 PM)

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#2011872 - 01/09/13 07:35 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2227
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Considering that it's an ABF project I think we've done well enough to get where we are already. The remaining pieces are not ABF material unless you already know them or are confident of getting them in the time available.

You've done an admirable recruiting job, Wayne, and deserve a special mention for that.

But I don't think we need an index. This should be a fun thing, easy pieces that won't interfere with the normal ABF recitals or the curriculum of people who are paying for lessons with a teacher.

Since the objective is to increase the bond between fellows in the ABF, extending beyond the ABF shouldn't be required and especially not to just fill up the numbers.

Aiming for 48 unique pieces, and their being of such a high standard (though I know of a harder collection of 48), when the ABF recitals don't go much beyond that was a long shot and I think you've done a splendid job recruiting the numbers we have so far. The problem I see is that willing folks have been turned away by the high entry bar (and many of them are folks I'd be happy to bond with).

I've enjoyed helping others on this (thanks for the recognition, btw), and that's building bonds for me - I wouldn't even feel the need to participate in the performance to feel part of it - but I've had to struggle through a few of these pieces in limited time to make sure I wasn't giving the wrong advice and it's eaten into my own repertory development.

One of these books, or even his Op. 72, would have been fun in the RST but simpler is better for the ABF as a whole.

This is an excellent starter and I commend you for it but if you're thinking of more in the future The Anna Magdalena Notebook, Burgmüller's Op. 100 or Bartok's Mikrokosmos might be more suitable vehicles (with duplicates allowed). I expect many of the new beginners might even enjoy hearing how their peers (or more experienced players) do with some of the Alfred's pieces without the stress of the more serious ABF recitals. Or our own arrangement of the Ode to Joy.
_________________________
Richard

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#2012069 - 01/10/13 03:53 AM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3128
Loc: Northern England.
Is there something about "Allegro" "Agitato" and "Presto" that people don`t like? heh heh


Edited by peterws (01/10/13 03:53 AM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes — but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2013034 - 01/11/13 07:15 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
PianoStudent88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 2975
Loc: Maine
Turns out I can play my piece faster and more reliably using the score. On the other hand, I wouldn't be able to find all the notes so well if I hadn't done the deep work required for memorization.

So I am confused about memorization. So many other people seem to only be able to play, and play much better, when working purely from memory, and/or find the score to be mostly useless after the initial deciphering. It doesn't seem to be like that for me. Am I still missing something about memorizing? Am I unusual in finding the score so helpful?

("Faster" is relative: 30 bpm vs. 20 bpm or less.)
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#2013041 - 01/11/13 07:26 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
I find I only need the score if I don't know what's going off! Thats why I liked the Philip Glass metamorphosis pieces, because they are easy to understand. The Satie recital was a case of listening and copying from the score, as for is this Mendelssohn recital, for me. I'm considering asking Richard for his help smile understanding must be key smile

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#2013048 - 01/11/13 07:33 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: PianoStudent88]
Sam S Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 1339
Loc: Georgia, USA
I gave up memorizing complete scores a couple of years ago. I'm too old and life's too short (I'm starting my 6th year back at the piano - I can't believe it's been that long). I only memorize the hardest parts where I have to look at my hands, and I don't work at that - it just sort of happens after practicing over and over.

The pros memorize everything because it is expected of them. I'm playing for fun and my own enjoyment. Memorizing complete scores just adds too much stress. I developed my reading skills so it wasn't an issue and I'm much happier for it.

Sam
_________________________
Every ABF recital since #13 Feb '09!
ABF Recital Index
My Recital Performances

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#2013077 - 01/11/13 08:43 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: PianoStudent88]
Greener Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1061
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
Turns out I can play my piece faster and more reliably using the score.


I'm happy to report that I am reading along nicely on 102,no.6 to this day. For Op 102 no. 1 though ... not a chance. Everything is being memorized as quickly as possible and just using the score to fix areas.

It is not to perfect the performance that I am doing this, but rather a necessity. I learned to play long before I learned to read. Reading (at this level) is just developing now. 102 no. 1, is WAY over my head to read and play at the same time. Even at practice tempo.

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#2013212 - 01/12/13 04:47 AM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: zrtf90]
pianoslacker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/07/12
Posts: 50
Originally Posted By: zrtf90


... in the future... Bartok's Mikrokosmos



The advantage of this would be that there's a piece in there appropriate to probably every single member of PW, either in their comfort zone or at their most ambitious.

I'd put myself down for Book 1 No.1 smile

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#2013337 - 01/12/13 10:08 AM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
Is that these?

"links removed"


Edited by wayne33yrs (01/13/13 05:54 AM)

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#2013363 - 01/12/13 10:53 AM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1040
Loc: uk south
- if you're taking in nominations how about Grieg's lyric pieces, lots to choose from and for a broad range of abilities.

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#2013368 - 01/12/13 11:05 AM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
We will go with the majority vote, thnx Dire tonic wink

Grieg's Lyric pieces

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#2013402 - 01/12/13 12:04 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2227
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: wayne33yrs
I'm considering asking Richard for his help smile understanding must be key smile
I may be busy that weekend! smile

Originally Posted By: wayne33yrs
We will go with the majority vote...
We might aim for consensus first as that may garner more participants. Are we going to finish the Mendelssohn one first?
_________________________
Richard

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#2013406 - 01/12/13 12:16 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
I think that would be best smile

and I seriously don't know where to start analising Op.85 no.2

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#2013445 - 01/12/13 01:29 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2227
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: wayne33yrs
I think that would be best smile

and I seriously don't know where to start analising Op.85 no.2
Where are you with 85/2?

What's your biggest or most immediate problem?

And what else in descending order of gravity?
_________________________
Richard

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#2013458 - 01/12/13 02:03 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
I've got Part I and II memorised, almost, and relatively slowly. I've just started on part III. I can hear the melody when playing part I, but only fractions of the melody in part II. I'm hoping to get there, my main weakness is understanding what's going on, I've no idea, I'm just reading and playing the notes in the right places. So I'm just sort of copying what's there, and not really learning anything.

I've tried analising it like you guys in the sonata thread, but with no luck, I'm lost after measure one lol smile


Edited by wayne33yrs (01/12/13 02:05 PM)

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#2013461 - 01/12/13 02:05 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1040
Loc: uk south
- Thanks for posting the link, Wayne. There’s a mixture of performances there not all of which quite whet the appetite ....I'd recommend the curious to check out youtube also...



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#2013463 - 01/12/13 02:07 PM Re: Themed recital - the BIG ONE! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
will do Diretonic smile

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