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#1345151 - 01/09/10 07:48 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Olek]
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1508
Loc: Old Hangtown California
Gene, yes Target is nice stuff. Have u used the spray on filler? It's tricky. Dries very hard. Haven't got the hang of it yet but I like the idea.
____________________________________________________________

No - however, after trying to completely fill mahogany grains I am considering some type of filler. Is it clear?

Just purchased some Koenig polyester for touch up. Black poly with hardener and reducer - will touch up with an air brush. Reducer is used similar to lacquer thinner and nitro lacquer - I will find out soon enough as this is my first attempt.
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PTG Member

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#1345171 - 01/09/10 08:10 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Gene Nelson]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7677
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Gene Nelson
Gene, yes Target is nice stuff. Have u used the spray on filler? It's tricky. Dries very hard. Haven't got the hang of it yet but I like the idea.
____________________________________________________________

No - however, after trying to completely fill mahogany grains I am considering some type of filler. Is it clear?

Just purchased some Koenig polyester for touch up. Black poly with hardener and reducer - will touch up with an air brush. Reducer is used similar to lacquer thinner and nitro lacquer - I will find out soon enough as this is my first attempt.


With Koenig, if it is cold you may warm it a little (not too much as it fasten it) but also mix well the resin, that mean no stirring but rolling slowly the bottle so the bottom can mix with the top - avoid bubbles - live it to rest a while anyway before using it.

To avoid bubbles , after having put th 2-3 dorops max of black stain, stirr to the max, then wait 20-30 sec, dont use it immediately. you will probably see some bubbles then.

Wash the inside of the zone with compressed air then acetone to get rid of the whitened zone due to the sanding (that is why it is better to use a blade to finish the preparation, less white).very smooth cup shape on the edges allow the poly to mix with the other under it.

I mask around the zone with thin braun adhesive tape, that will resist to water sanding and show me when I'll be really almost flat (the thickness of the adhesive only remains.

I make an aperture in a plastic sheet for sanding, to protect around the zone (then no need to cover all around with masking tape. it can be worked with a blade also but it is longer, there are special scrapers for polyester , but I never seen one. the Koenig can be rubbed and polished, in the end it is almost invisible. Nevertheless it is sold more as a reparir product and not a finishing product (not to be sprayed).
That one contains parafin, that have to be washed (aceton) from the surface before sanding or adding a new layer.

It is worth knowing how to use it, I could repair very ugly marks on some grand lids that where really not visible afterthat. the use of a good polish (not full of silicone !) because it add a very thin layer in the end, help to have a glossy surface (protect from dust) and hide any micro defect that is yet on the surface.
good luck : Koenig is the one that was or is yet used for German Steinways. the black dye is very good.

Best
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#1345174 - 01/09/10 08:13 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Olek]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7677
Loc: France
May be you did not buy the same product than me, I use 1 liter resin bottles and hardener in paste plus black special dye.

what is 'reducer ?"
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1345232 - 01/09/10 09:16 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Olek]
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1508
Loc: Old Hangtown California
Kamin, I did not state the product or situation correct. I am using Koenig polyester repair on a Schimmel lid. The edge repair accidently penetrated into the undercoat slightly and it is quite soft and will not polish. Rather than continue to do repairs as there is not much finish on the edges, I purchased an Ebony Acrlyic Topcoat from my Koenig supplier for touch up. It has hardener and reducer. They said it sprays on and I assumed it was the same as the polyester finish.
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PTG Member

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#1345481 - 01/10/10 05:26 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Gene Nelson]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7677
Loc: France
Well it may be more worth the try to ask directly Schimmel which products are used then, could be useful to others.

I never traced a too soft polyester (cannot polish) to that kind of problem, only if I use too much dye or too much harderner paste also.

Very possibly Koenig sell the most up to date products of course.

Please tell us how the Acrilyc top coat grip on the underside finish, that is interesting to know.

the edges are the most difficult part to repair, for sure. Being able to spray with an airbrush may be a must.

Professional polyesters are sold with hardener, reducer and solvent (instructions depend of air moisture and of the use , I have instructional data sheet but never done it myself).

Many colleagues are looking for a polyester to be sprayed by themselves, as I have been told some polish restorers know how to do without a special place.

But to have real professional result and avoid health hazard, a spraying both is necessary, not a cheap thing.

The representatives of the polyester brand when I met him in the shop wher I buy varnishes told me that the top coat could be urethane now, may be he wanted to say Akril Urethane.

But he state also that the top coat was "piano polyester" (mean : very glossy and hard), while the underside was a black polyester primer .
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1345629 - 01/10/10 11:52 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Olek]
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1508
Loc: Old Hangtown California
I believe that several finish types will adhear to polyester. A friend used a clear water base acrylic lacquer over polyester and it worked very well on an inner rim. I attempted this with the same water base acrylic in black on the Schimmel lid and adheasion was not a problem. The problem was polishing. There was a distinct line where polyester ended and water base acrylic begin and it could not be removed.
This is when I had a talk with my Koenig supplier. Hopefully the sovlent based topcoat that they supplied will not have this issue.
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

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#1345632 - 01/10/10 11:55 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Gene Nelson]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4204
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Gene Nelson
I believe that several finish types will adhear to polyester.


And you are correct in your belief.Poly can be used as a base for a variety of products. Some however will only produce a mechanical bond.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
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"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1345873 - 01/10/10 04:03 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Sam Casey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1135
Loc: SW Missouri
Gene the spray filler goes on a milky white and dries clear. Mist coats. As u probably know that's the trick with water base. Lots of light coats, enough set up time and it fills quickly. The trick with the spray on filler is the squeege. Spray it on, squeege it across grain to fill pores, set up and spray again. Can't leave ANY pile up along squeege ends because it dried very hard and sand out becomes uneven. Haven't got the routine down to my liking but it shows promise.

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#1347090 - 01/11/10 07:06 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Gene Nelson]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7677
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Gene Nelson
I believe that several finish types will adhear to polyester. A friend used a clear water base acrylic lacquer over polyester and it worked very well on an inner rim. I attempted this with the same water base acrylic in black on the Schimmel lid and adheasion was not a problem. The problem was polishing. There was a distinct line where polyester ended and water base acrylic begin and it could not be removed.
This is when I had a talk with my Koenig supplier. Hopefully the sovlent based topcoat that they supplied will not have this issue.




I am really lost, I understood that he sold you a water based acrylic product, it is a solvent based top coat, but it is Acrylic as well ? is it what is now used on cars ? But the solvent is non toxic and does not evaporate.

I am not capable to understand the technical words for finishing when in English (furnisher web site) . Too bad, it is as with chemicals the words are sounding similar to mean something different !
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1347449 - 01/12/10 07:38 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Olek]
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
Yesterday was my first commercial tuning, unsolicited, not an acquaintance. Went well, was a 1-year-old 42.5" Pearl River. They mentioned that it had a ”sticky key” that failed to exhibit the problem in my presence. Hoping for more to come...

This past weekend I pulled my S&S A out of the paint booth and am reassembling. Will post pics along the way. By first piece.
_________________________
Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate

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#1347476 - 01/12/10 08:45 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Les Koltvedt]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
I'm slowing down (intentionally) now after the first of the year. I'm still booked a month in advance but, am 'only' tuning 4 a day right now, 3 on some, 5 on other days. I'm working at my college again this week. Nice relaxing pace right now.... I can finally keep up!
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1347951 - 01/12/10 06:16 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Terry Benge Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 120
Loc: Southeastern Ky
Only did 2 today because of slick roads. One Schimmel 7' with 2 sticking jacks, and a Kawa RX-1 10 years old and never been tuned. Half tone pitch raise and a fine tune. Then some paper work and scheduling.
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#1348077 - 01/12/10 09:12 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Terry Benge]
JBE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 377
Loc: USA
I was just thinking yesterday about how I rarely have a chance to practice string splicing or tying a 'tuners knot'. This is one of the first things I learned how to do when I started out as a piano tuner. I'm very glad it is something that I learned how to do because it has saved me a few times. I would practice using bread- ties with the paper covering removed just to remember how the bends go. The last piano of the day was an old Sherman Clay console with very bent tuning pins. It was only 10 cents flat so I'm going along from A1 down to A0 and back up to the tenor and KER---SNAP! the first wound string at the tenor break broke at the coil. "Oh good, time to polish up the knot tying skills".
Two holes in the thumb and a few pints of blood later and she was up and running again. I enjoy doing that repair for some strange reason.

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#1348101 - 01/12/10 09:58 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: JBE]
Sam Casey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1135
Loc: SW Missouri
5 today.
P-22 for a historic little church that served as a Civil war union battle hospital.

Everett Grand circa 1915 with tight jacks. 1st dose of CLP got most 2nd dose the rest. House was in a gated community, at the end of a cul-de-sac, up a steep drive to a big brick house. Drove my RAV4 60ft up the snow covered drive, lady was outside spreading salt. We go in, I go to work, she comes back white as a ghost. "You won't believe this: Your car slid all the way down the drive to the street. No damage, just sitting there at the end of the drive." So there it sat till I was done.

Krell-French Upright barely alive.

Kawai studio in Episcopal Church.

Yamaha G3 in High School vocal.

All dry and flat.

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#1348120 - 01/12/10 10:22 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Sam Casey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1135
Loc: SW Missouri
Forgot one: SD10 for big Baptist church. 6 today.

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#1348205 - 01/12/10 11:53 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Dave Stahl Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 1645
I did five...but it was pretty much a dog day, except for a brand new Kawai K-3 upright.

A 1928 Schumann Grand, really close to being in tune...60c flat! Given the rust on the strings and pins, 440 was not an option. Left it at 424.5

Rental conversion Wurlitzer console

Schiller upright that came from Nebraska, and was signed by many tuners over the decades

Quite possible the worst piano I've seen in some time, a Westbrook spinet, yet another rental converstion.
_________________________
Promote Harmony in the Universe...Tune your piano!

Dave Stahl, RPT
Piano Technician's Guild
San Jose, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAniw3m7L2I
http://dstahlpiano.net

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#1348232 - 01/13/10 12:24 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Dave Stahl]
Sam Casey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1135
Loc: SW Missouri
Ah yes, Westbrook. I have a church that has many nice pianos and 1 Westbrook spinet. All are tuned every 6 and the Westbrook is either wildly sharp or wildly flat. I've told them many times the wreck would make a fairly decent boat anchor.

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#1348292 - 01/13/10 02:03 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21587
Loc: Oakland
I went to the Noontime Concert, where somehow I was picked out to help move the piano. It was French cello music.

Then I went to tune a very nice Janssen studio for the sister of a very famous movie star who died fairly young. There was a photograph of her with her arm over her head, and I could not help but think despite the tragedy of her untimely demise that it was fortunate that she died before she began to have trouble holding her arm like that. The sister was charming, and gave me some cookies, according to Russian holiday tradition.
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Semipro Tech

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#1348733 - 01/13/10 04:17 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: BDB]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
5 again today. Everett studios, Baldwin studios and Kawai UST-8's. Tuned last in September, RH was 52 % now 18 %.

You know the pianos I have always enjoyed tuning? Maybe I'm just slightly prejudiced here, but they are the older Everett studios that were built in South Haven Michigan. We used to have a lot of these pianos at my college. We've replaced many of the oldest and most worn out ones yet, we still have quite a few left. They are now 45-50 years old and still holding up strong. They don't look so red hot anymore thanks to the little kiddies but they are solid pianos.

Some others that we still have left there are the older Baldwin and Hamilton studios also about 45-50 years old. All of them are fairly nice tuning and quite solidly built pianos over all I think back in those days.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1348739 - 01/13/10 04:24 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21587
Loc: Oakland
Just about all of those old studios were pretty good. I thought the Janssen was a pretty good model for Charles Walter to build his business on.
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Semipro Tech

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#1348807 - 01/13/10 05:36 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: BDB]
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
Have an Janssen that I handed down to my great Niece to play. Now I find myself doing maintence on it.... how come it was never done for me when I played...uhm
_________________________
Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate

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#1349003 - 01/13/10 09:44 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Les Koltvedt]
Sam Casey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1135
Loc: SW Missouri
Everetts were always dandy. Those steel post versions were a killer to move!

8 today.
Nice Acro console.
Nordiska Studio.
Lovely old Geo. Steck grand, all original, perfect set of ivories. Lady had her humidifiers going stong and the piano was on the fork.
Kimball spinet.
SS D and 5' Estonia in Methodist Ch. Last year church put in pipe organ and spent 12K on sancturary humidity control. Music director and I share a passion for wine and he gave me a belaed Xmas present of Chateau Neuf. DEEELIGHTFUL.
Baldwin grand I recondititoned and sold 28 years ago and tuned yearly since.
Krakhaur Console circa 1939, beautiful case and ivories. Owner had the original paperwork. Was 1/2 step flat and did a pitch raise.

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#1349090 - 01/13/10 11:47 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
Dave Stahl Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 1645
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
5 again today. Everett studios, Baldwin studios and Kawai UST-8's. Tuned last in September, RH was 52 % now 18 %.

You know the pianos I have always enjoyed tuning? Maybe I'm just slightly prejudiced here, but they are the older Everett studios that were built in South Haven Michigan.



I liked these alot, and even owned one. Solid pianos, good value, pleasing sound and touch.
_________________________
Promote Harmony in the Universe...Tune your piano!

Dave Stahl, RPT
Piano Technician's Guild
San Jose, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAniw3m7L2I
http://dstahlpiano.net

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#1351030 - 01/16/10 10:39 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Dave Stahl]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
I did 3 yesterday. Nice day! 1 UST-8. 2. Story & Clunk, er, Clark studio, not a nice tuning piano. 3. Yamaha U 1 made in Japan. Love those pianos.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1351324 - 01/16/10 07:12 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3869
Nine yesterday, 6 today (# 7 wasn't tunable) 9 to tune on Sunday, 5 on Monday, and Tues/Wed shop work/off/no tunings/yea.


Edited by Bob (01/16/10 08:41 PM)
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#1351334 - 01/16/10 07:26 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Bob]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
My day, drilled two Steinway pinblocks and sold a piano.
Think I'll call it a day.
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#1351377 - 01/16/10 08:51 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
RPD Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 961
Loc: Kalamazoo Michigan
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
I'm slowing down (intentionally) now after the first of the year. I'm still booked a month in advance but, am 'only' tuning 4 a day right now, 3 on some, 5 on other days. I'm working at my college again this week. Nice relaxing pace right now.... I can finally keep up!


Same here...Jane's got me booked solid into Feb, but I'm travelling 4 days per week, and booking around 5 per day it seems...a VERY nice pace after a Christmas rush that can only be described as insane.

But today...Saturday...I was underneath an M&H Ampico reproducer, doing the final touches before delivery later this month. So, my day was spent trying to avoid the cute lickings of my husky-shepherd Luna, who finds my lying on the floor under a piano simply irresistable.

YMMV
whistle
RPD
_________________________
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#1351455 - 01/16/10 10:40 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: RPD]
Eric Gloo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1246
Loc: Richfield Springs, New York
I've been taking Zicam since Wednesday...every 3 hours...Today was spent eating...watching football. So far my cold is not progressing, so I think I started the Zicam early enough. Colds are a huge problem for me. Fortunately, I don't get them very often. I live and tune in an area with big elevation changes. So, if I'm stuffed up and drive to an area lower in elevation...the ears plug...and "there ain't no tunin' when that happens."
_________________________
Eric Gloo
Piano Technician
Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer
Richfield Springs, New York

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#1351504 - 01/16/10 11:57 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Eric Gloo]
JBE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 377
Loc: USA
Went to a class on aural tuning taught by Richard Bittner RPT.
He came down to S.D. CAL. from the NAMM show to share his knowledge with us here. A very fine tuner and a great guy.

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#1351648 - 01/17/10 03:33 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: BDB]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7677
Loc: France
I've spend most of my time in the workshop, lately, giving tunings to a friend, as I have 2 grands together to work on and am abit late on one of them. Thats OK for me , as I have suffered from diverse flu those last months, plus avoiding the transportation in car or motorcycle in Paris town is cool , only misses me the contact with customers.

Yesterday I bring back together at the pianists place all the parts of a Yamaha U1 vertical with silent system installed that had to be dismounted when he moved. keyboard/keybed apart, sides, silent system.

After putting all together, a new setup of the keyboard sensors is necessary (even if basically they are yet working). I is very easy to do - one record the condition of the sensor without the keys, then with the keys at rest, the, each key is pushed lightly top record the bottom position.

The sides are glued but very easy to dismount, things fall in place easely in the other direction.

Some old houses here have very tight stairs, because an elevator have been added for instance. The movers are very good to spin the grand pianos on the tail, or verticals on an edge to pass tight corners, but there is a limit. then the verticals have to be taken apart only to enter the flat.





Edited by Kamin (01/17/10 03:33 AM)
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It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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