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#2010604 - 01/07/13 01:38 PM Re: Scarlatti [Re: Works1]
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 1500
Actually, I love Scarlatti's work more than Bach's. It is so enjoyable to listen and to play.
I just do not like to learn long pieces. One time a teacher of my friend's asked what I am going to play for a competition. She told her Scarlatti and Mozart, and the teacher's reply "Suicidal!" HAHAHAHAHAA....She was correct!!!

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#2010640 - 01/07/13 02:45 PM Re: Scarlatti [Re: RonaldSteinway]
didyougethathing Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 545
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
Actually, I love Scarlatti's work more than Bach's. It is so enjoyable to listen and to play.
I just do not like to learn long pieces. One time a teacher of my friend's asked what I am going to play for a competition. She told her Scarlatti and Mozart, and the teacher's reply "Suicidal!" HAHAHAHAHAA....She was correct!!!


I'd say most of the sonatas are five minutes and under. And if you take into account that many of them just have 2 sections that are each repeated, you are only "learning" half of the actual duration of the piece, which makes them very nice to learn.

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#2010652 - 01/07/13 03:05 PM Re: Scarlatti [Re: didyougethathing]
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 1500
Originally Posted By: didyougethathing
Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
Actually, I love Scarlatti's work more than Bach's. It is so enjoyable to listen and to play.
I just do not like to learn long pieces. One time a teacher of my friend's asked what I am going to play for a competition. She told her Scarlatti and Mozart, and the teacher's reply "Suicidal!" HAHAHAHAHAA....She was correct!!!


I'd say most of the sonatas are five minutes and under. And if you take into account that many of them just have 2 sections that are each repeated, you are only "learning" half of the actual duration of the piece, which makes them very nice to learn.


I agree that is why I am a big fan of Scarlatti's sonatas.

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#2010831 - 01/07/13 08:33 PM Re: Scarlatti [Re: Works1]
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
Bozhanov's Scarlatti is always irresistible for me, also, Kuntz's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw5QLyzq3tg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBi6_jzl5aU

but i also like Pogo's early recording, Schiff's, Horowitz's. my former teacher loves Babayan's Scarlatti's CD:

http://www.amazon.com/Scarlatti-Sonatas-...an+scarlatti+cd

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#2011650 - 01/09/13 10:36 AM Re: Scarlatti [Re: Works1]
Chopinlover49 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 641
I believe there are at least 2 cd complete collections, but have not purchased a set yet because I find my ear becomes tired after listening to many sonatas from Scarlatti in a row. I usually don't have this problem as I really like a wide variety of music, but I will continue listening to a lot of Scarlatti and will hope my interest increases with familiarity. Does anyone else have this experience?

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#2011810 - 01/09/13 04:56 PM Re: Scarlatti [Re: Chopinlover49]
pianoslacker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/07/12
Posts: 50
Originally Posted By: Chopinlover49
I believe there are at least 2 cd complete collections, but have not purchased a set yet because I find my ear becomes tired after listening to many sonatas from Scarlatti in a row. I usually don't have this problem as I really like a wide variety of music, but I will continue listening to a lot of Scarlatti and will hope my interest increases with familiarity. Does anyone else have this experience?


I've been thinking about this. grin Too much music can certainly seem like a nightmare. And in any case is listening to 3, 15, or 550 Scarlatti sonatas really better than listening to just one?

I did hear one time a musician - I have no idea who now - proposing, at least theoretically, concerts composed of just a single piece of music.

Imagine: 6 pm you shower, shave, put on your evening dress, apply make-up. The chauffeur toots down in the street. You go down, drive to the hall. You hang around in the foyer, the bell rings, you take your seat in the auditorium. The lights go down. The pianist emerges, bows, you applaud. He takes his seat at the piano, plays a Scarlatti sonata. You applaud, he bows, he disappears. You go out to supper.

Wouldn't this likely be the most intense musical experience you ever had, and truly in the spirit of music? And even if you weren't really listening with all your attention on this particular occasion, you'd surely make a note to do so next time.

From this perspective the idea of making balanced programmes for concerts starts to seem almost barbaric. I don't know what other folk think?

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#2011816 - 01/09/13 05:06 PM Re: Scarlatti [Re: Chopinlover49]
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 1500
Originally Posted By: Chopinlover49
I believe there are at least 2 cd complete collections, but have not purchased a set yet because I find my ear becomes tired after listening to many sonatas from Scarlatti in a row. I usually don't have this problem as I really like a wide variety of music, but I will continue listening to a lot of Scarlatti and will hope my interest increases with familiarity. Does anyone else have this experience?


Imagine two months ago, I watched Schiff performing WTC bk 2. He played very well. However, after 20 minutes, I started getting tired of listening to the same stuff.

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#2012183 - 01/10/13 10:08 AM Re: Scarlatti [Re: Works1]
izaldu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1255
Loc:
Gilels, Tipo, Benedetti ...

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#2012192 - 01/10/13 10:32 AM Re: Scarlatti [Re: pianoslacker]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19579
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: pianoslacker
Originally Posted By: Chopinlover49
I believe there are at least 2 cd complete collections, but have not purchased a set yet because I find my ear becomes tired after listening to many sonatas from Scarlatti in a row. I usually don't have this problem as I really like a wide variety of music, but I will continue listening to a lot of Scarlatti and will hope my interest increases with familiarity. Does anyone else have this experience?


I've been thinking about this. grin Too much music can certainly seem like a nightmare. And in any case is listening to 3, 15, or 550 Scarlatti sonatas really better than listening to just one?

I did hear one time a musician - I have no idea who now - proposing, at least theoretically, concerts composed of just a single piece of music.

Imagine: 6 pm you shower, shave, put on your evening dress, apply make-up. The chauffeur toots down in the street. You go down, drive to the hall. You hang around in the foyer, the bell rings, you take your seat in the auditorium. The lights go down. The pianist emerges, bows, you applaud. He takes his seat at the piano, plays a Scarlatti sonata. You applaud, he bows, he disappears. You go out to supper.

Wouldn't this likely be the most intense musical experience you ever had, and truly in the spirit of music? And even if you weren't really listening with all your attention on this particular occasion, you'd surely make a note to do so next time.

From this perspective the idea of making balanced programmes for concerts starts to seem almost barbaric. I don't know what other folk think?
You're joking, I assume?

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#2012228 - 01/10/13 12:14 PM Re: Scarlatti [Re: pianoloverus]
pianoslacker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/07/12
Posts: 50
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: pianoslacker
Originally Posted By: Chopinlover49
I believe there are at least 2 cd complete collections, but have not purchased a set yet because I find my ear becomes tired after listening to many sonatas from Scarlatti in a row. I usually don't have this problem as I really like a wide variety of music, but I will continue listening to a lot of Scarlatti and will hope my interest increases with familiarity. Does anyone else have this experience?


I've been thinking about this. grin Too much music can certainly seem like a nightmare. And in any case is listening to 3, 15, or 550 Scarlatti sonatas really better than listening to just one?

I did hear one time a musician - I have no idea who now - proposing, at least theoretically, concerts composed of just a single piece of music.

Imagine: 6 pm you shower, shave, put on your evening dress, apply make-up. The chauffeur toots down in the street. You go down, drive to the hall. You hang around in the foyer, the bell rings, you take your seat in the auditorium. The lights go down. The pianist emerges, bows, you applaud. He takes his seat at the piano, plays a Scarlatti sonata. You applaud, he bows, he disappears. You go out to supper.

Wouldn't this likely be the most intense musical experience you ever had, and truly in the spirit of music? And even if you weren't really listening with all your attention on this particular occasion, you'd surely make a note to do so next time.

From this perspective the idea of making balanced programmes for concerts starts to seem almost barbaric. I don't know what other folk think?
You're joking, I assume?


No, not joking really, but maybe being 'idealistic'.

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#2012292 - 01/10/13 02:37 PM Re: Scarlatti [Re: Works1]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 803
Loc: Finland
Scarlatti is one of my 4 favorite composers. I have heard almost all of the sonatas, but haven't learned many yet. I don't think I could ever grow tired of his sonatas, there's so much variation. I accidentally bought a CD 25 years ago and got hooked right away...I didn't play then, but when I started I pretty soon took some sonatas to my teacher... They were a bit too hard, but I still learned a lot from them.

Unlike most people I tend to prefer the slower ones and his later works (assuming the ones with higher K numbers were composed last, there still seems to be a some uncertainty about that). I have so many favorites it's impossible to even list them.

Currently working on K434. Such a gem! With my low skill level I think his music gives me the best chance to express myself and actually enjoy the learning process. And since it keeps me so motivated I progress a lot with every piece I play. So I think old Fred was very smart to use them as teaching pieces.

His music also seems to be quite timeless, even though it's baroque era music, it has also very modern sounding elements.

I don't really like the sound of the harpsichord, so I like them on piano, but I do prefer a more "harpsichordist" playing style with Scarlatti. It's a pity Michelangeli recorded so few, love his precision. Horowitch's are nice too and Clara Haskill's.

BTW: If you haven't heard K99 you should, it's one of the most beautiful IMO...


Edited by outo (01/10/13 02:43 PM)

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#2012682 - 01/11/13 09:44 AM Re: Scarlatti [Re: Works1]
Works1 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 441
Loc: New York
This has been a very informative thread. Thanks all!!

I have selected a few of the Scarlatti sonatas to learn but am having trouble finding them all in one collection.

Can someone recommend the best edition(s) for the Scarlatti sonatas?

Here is a list of the sonatas I would like to learn (as a start):

K455
K9
K27
K162
K531
K87

Thanks smile

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#2012725 - 01/11/13 11:13 AM Re: Scarlatti [Re: worov]
Gerard12 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 763
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: worov
Quote:
I don't know who is playing the harpsichord on these - Scott Ross, maybe?


Thank you for the links. To my knowledge, there are only two complete sets on harpsichord : Scott Roos and Pieter-Jan Belder. So if the recordings in these links are all made by the same performer, I guess it could be one of these.


I believe that the artist on these is Richard Lester. I recently purchased a handful of mp3's from his complete set on Nimbus and I enjoy them very much.

One of my favorite soundtracks for highway driving is the disc of 15 Scarlatti sonatas played on harpsichord by Christophe Rousset: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdF_S57fyK8.

(Not the strongest performance from the collection, but it's the only YT link to his Scarlatti that I can find.)


Edited by Gerard12 (01/11/13 12:08 PM)
_________________________
Piano performance and instruction (former college music professor).

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#2012787 - 01/11/13 01:13 PM Re: Scarlatti [Re: Works1]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 803
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: Works1


Can someone recommend the best edition(s) for the Scarlatti sonatas?



I have two of the 3 Henle collections, The 2 Peters collections, the Schirmer 60 sonatas collection and one book from the series of complete Heugel Paris editions (which cost a small fortune). They are all ok, some more edited than others. But if you want certain selected sonatas to try, you are better off printing from IMSLP, unless you want to spend a fortune on getting a whole series of complete sonatas. There are 555 of them so it's quite a few books.

From your list K9 and K87 are both in the first Peters book, but the others are not in any of my books.

I would just stay away from the Longo editions, since he had a habit of "correcting" the unconventionalities in the sonatas.

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#2012845 - 01/11/13 02:11 PM Re: Scarlatti [Re: outo]
Works1 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 441
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: outo
Originally Posted By: Works1


Can someone recommend the best edition(s) for the Scarlatti sonatas?



I have two of the 3 Henle collections, The 2 Peters collections, the Schirmer 60 sonatas collection and one book from the series of complete Heugel Paris editions (which cost a small fortune). They are all ok, some more edited than others. But if you want certain selected sonatas to try, you are better off printing from IMSLP, unless you want to spend a fortune on getting a whole series of complete sonatas. There are 555 of them so it's quite a few books.

From your list K9 and K87 are both in the first Peters book, but the others are not in any of my books.

I would just stay away from the Longo editions, since he had a habit of "correcting" the unconventionalities in the sonatas.



Thanks outo. I saw a couple of editions from Alfred on Sheetmusicplus that had most of the ones I wanted so I think I will start with those as well as the first Peters Edition book for K87. And thanks for the tip on the Longo editions!

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#2012879 - 01/11/13 02:49 PM Re: Scarlatti [Re: Works1]
worov Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 114
Loc: Paris
If you want a complete edition, there are only three of them.

- the Longo edition, published by Ricordi. First published in 1906, this was the first more or less complete collection of the sonatas amongst the existing editions then. As outo said, it has many errors. And it uses a different catalogue than the standard Kirkpatrick. However it is the only complete edition wich provides fingering. It's now in the public domain. Availalable at the IMSLP.

- The Kenneth Gilbert edition, published by Heugel. Scholarly work, following and facsimiles, plus an exam of the first printings. Although prettyclose to the original, Gilbert has modernised substantially the notation. It's still in print. However it is a bit pricey.

- The Emilia Fadini, published by Ricordi. This is the new Ricordi edition, in accordance with Urtext standard. However it is not complete yet. Eight volumes have been published. Two volumes are yet to be published. This is the one I use. If I'm looking for a sonata which is not yet edited in this edition, I use the Longo edition.

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#2012898 - 01/11/13 03:14 PM Re: Scarlatti [Re: Works1]
Works1 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 441
Loc: New York
Thanks worov, that is great information!!

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#2013186 - 01/12/13 02:17 AM Re: Scarlatti [Re: worov]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 803
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: worov

- The Emilia Fadini, published by Ricordi. This is the new Ricordi edition, in accordance with Urtext standard. However it is not complete yet. Eight volumes have been published. Two volumes are yet to be published. This is the one I use. If I'm looking for a sonata which is not yet edited in this edition, I use the Longo edition.


Thanks for the information. My plan was to get one of these next to try it out. I assume they are good quality in print also? I have problems with my eyes, so it's important for me that the printing is clear and the note heads are large enough with good spacing.

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#2013216 - 01/12/13 05:05 AM Re: Scarlatti [Re: outo]
worov Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 114
Loc: Paris
Quote:

Thanks for the information. My plan was to get one of these next to try it out. I assume they are good quality in print also? I have problems with my eyes, so it's important for me that the printing is clear and the note heads are large enough with good spacing.



You can check some images on Ricordi website. Here's one :

Emilia Fadini edition excerpt

I have good eyes. So the print is fine for me. However the binding isn't very good. The book won't stay open easily. To my knowledge, Ricordi doesn't make these in hardcover. I wish they did.


Edited by worov (01/12/13 05:07 AM)

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#2013221 - 01/12/13 05:19 AM Re: Scarlatti [Re: worov]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 803
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: worov
Quote:

Thanks for the information. My plan was to get one of these next to try it out. I assume they are good quality in print also? I have problems with my eyes, so it's important for me that the printing is clear and the note heads are large enough with good spacing.



You can check some images on Ricordi website. Here's one :

Emilia Fadini edition excerpt

I have good eyes. So the print is fine for me. However the binding isn't very good. The book won't stay open easily. To my knowledge, Ricordi doesn't make these in hardcover. I wish they did.



Thanks! That was quite clear, no problem.

It is the same with Heugel, badly bound and cheap paper...for that price one would expect better.

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#2013232 - 01/12/13 05:50 AM Re: Scarlatti [Re: worov]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7975
Originally Posted By: worov


- the Longo edition, published by Ricordi. First published in 1906, this was the first more or less complete collection of the sonatas amongst the existing editions then. As outo said, it has many errors. And it uses a different catalogue than the standard Kirkpatrick. However it is the only complete edition wich provides fingering. It's now in the public domain. Availalable at the IMSLP.



The bit about the "different catalogue than the standard Kirkpatrick" struck me as funny, because the Longo WAS the standard catalog before the K. numbers came along.

It's really too bad that Longo decided to "clean up" the sonatas as part of his editorial philosophy - I guess at the time it probably must have made some kind of sense, but now it just seems strangely dishonest, not to mention condescending to the buyer.

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#2013263 - 01/12/13 07:38 AM Re: Scarlatti [Re: worov]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 803
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: worov
Quote:

Thanks for the information. My plan was to get one of these next to try it out. I assume they are good quality in print also? I have problems with my eyes, so it's important for me that the printing is clear and the note heads are large enough with good spacing.



You can check some images on Ricordi website. Here's one :

Emilia Fadini edition excerpt



I wonder if you could help me with one more thing. I have problems identifying the right publications where I shop (di-arezzo) and the English version of the Ricordi website is a complete mess. So I haven't been able to buy any of the Fadini editions confused

Are these arranged by K or L numbers? If so, do they go in order? I would want to buy the first 100 K sonatas, can you help me with the right catalogue number?

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#2013279 - 01/12/13 08:25 AM Re: Scarlatti [Re: outo]
Gerard12 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 763
Loc: South Carolina
This search page from Sheet Music Plus will lead you to the page(s) that contains the listing for each of the first 8 volumes:

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/search?q=scarlatti+sonatas+ricordi+fadini
_________________________
Piano performance and instruction (former college music professor).

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#2013291 - 01/12/13 08:54 AM Re: Scarlatti [Re: Gerard12]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 803
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: Gerard12
This search page from Sheet Music Plus will lead you to the page(s) that contains the listing for each of the first 8 volumes:

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/search?q=scarlatti+sonatas+ricordi+fadini


Thanks!

I found the right volume but I still cannot find them on di-arezzo frown


Edited by outo (01/12/13 09:02 AM)

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#2013303 - 01/12/13 09:28 AM Re: Scarlatti [Re: outo]
worov Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 114
Loc: Paris
I’m not familiar with di-arezzo website. I buy at my local music shop. If they don’t have the book in stock, I ask them to order it.

Anyway, if this can be of any help, here are the ISBN numbers for each book. I found these on Ricordi website (the Italian website, not the english one).

Volume 1 : 9790041827490
Volume 2 : 9790041827506
Volume 3 : 9790041827513
Volume 4 : 9790041827520
Volume 5 : 9790041827537
Volume 6 : 9790041827544
Volume 7 : 9790041827551
Volume 8 : 9790041827568

The Fadini edition doesn’t use the Longo order, neither the Kirkpatrick order. It uses the order of the manuscript of Venice if my memory serves me good. Emilia Fadini talks about it in the preface. I’ll tell about it later (I’m at work now).

I have borrowed at the library some volumes of the Heugel edition some years ago. The librarian did some binding work on the books. Thanks to this the books were in very good shape with hardcovers and lay flat perfectly. So I can’t say anything about Heugel’s original binding. The paper print was very good.


Edited by worov (01/12/13 09:30 AM)

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#2013347 - 01/12/13 10:23 AM Re: Scarlatti [Re: worov]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 803
Loc: Finland
I found this:

http://www.di-arezzo.co.uk/sheet+music/c...c22f89fdfb68475

Do you think it's the right one?

I'm just confused because the page number doesn't match the one on Sheetmusic plus. I don't want to accidently get a wrong one. I am often frusrated by the lack of information on their site, but I am otherwise very happy with the service. Sheet music cost a fortune on shops up here so must order online.

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#2013348 - 01/12/13 10:26 AM Re: Scarlatti [Re: worov]
worov Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 114
Loc: Paris
I searched a bit on Di Arezzo. It's listed under the title "Complete Sonatas per Clavicembalo".

Here's volume one :

Emilia Fadini is mentionned : "A cura di Emilia Fadini". So that's the right book.

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#2013350 - 01/12/13 10:27 AM Re: Scarlatti [Re: worov]
worov Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 114
Loc: Paris
i wrote my post while you were writing.

Yes, that's volume 2.

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#2013351 - 01/12/13 10:31 AM Re: Scarlatti [Re: worov]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 803
Loc: Finland
Thanks. I also sent them an e-mail smile

I guess I should learn French, maybe there's more information on the French pages than the English ones frown


Edited by outo (01/12/13 10:36 AM)

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#2013470 - 01/12/13 02:18 PM Re: Scarlatti [Re: outo]
worov Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 114
Loc: Paris
Quote:

I'm just confused because the page number doesn't match the one on Sheetmusic plus. I don't want to accidently get a wrong one. I am often frusrated by the lack of information on their site, but I am otherwise very happy with the service. Sheet music cost a fortune on shops up here so must order online.


Page number don't match, that's right. Because Di Arezzo doesn't count the preface and the thematic index (which both contain roman numerals).


Edited by worov (01/12/13 02:19 PM)

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