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#2013683 - 01/12/13 09:58 PM Students preparing for music major
John v.d.Brook Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7348
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
For you in the academic community, what are your expectations concerning Classical and Baroque repertoire that you'd like students to have studied as potential music majors?

Beethoven - which sonatas? other lit?
Haydn - ditto
Mozart - ditto

Any others?

Same questions for the Baroque period. Which Bach would you like students to have tackled? Other composers?

Are you looking for breadth of composers, or depth on a select few?

Other thoughts?

Thanks.

John
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#2013743 - 01/13/13 12:50 AM Re: Students preparing for music major [Re: John v.d.Brook]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5458
Loc: Orange County, CA
I don't teach at the college level, but I'm familiar with the requirements.

Haydn: Hob. XVI: 27, 32, 33, 35, 36, 37, 46, and 49 (maybe 50)

Mozart: K. 279, 283, 309, 330, 332, 333, 545

Beethoven: Op. 2, No. 1; Op. 10, No. 1; Op. 13; Op. 14, No. 2; Op. 27, No. 2; Op. 49, No. 1; Op. 49, No. 2

I'd say among these selections, 5 first movements, 2 second movements, and 3 third movements. Maybe one complete sonata.

As for Baroque, almost all the universities require a Bach Prelude and Fugue for the audition. That seems to be the golden standard.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#2013751 - 01/13/13 01:12 AM Re: Students preparing for music major [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Minniemay Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 1702
Loc: CA
Oh, my dream list . . .

I wish students entering college (a BA/BM program in a liberal arts institution):

Bach - Little Preludes, 2 and 3 part inventions, some French Suite movements, a P and F.

Haydn - Doesn't really matter which ones, but 4-6 sonatas studied (at least first movements, preferably 2 in their entirety)

Mozart - same list as AZN

Beethoven - Op. 2/1, Op. 10/1, Op. 10/2, Op. 27/1 or 2 and either 14/1 or 2, maybe Tempest - again several 1st mvts, some 2nd and at least one complete

Chopin - Waltzes, a couple of nocturnes, a few of the more ambitious preludes and at least one etude (Revolutionary, Cello, Ocean Waves, Aeolian Harp)

I'm hoping they have some usable technique without many things to fix, and a good general understanding of basic stylistic principles. I also want good reading ability. If they can't read well, learning literature is slow and you can't get through enough literature.

One of the big problems at the college level is the limited nature of the semester/quarter. You only have so many lessons in which to:

1) Get to know the student
2) Address major deficiencies
3) Expand knowledge and
4) Prepare a jury
_________________________
B.A., Piano, Piano Pegagogy, Music Ed.
M.M., Piano

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#2013840 - 01/13/13 09:35 AM Re: Students preparing for music major [Re: John v.d.Brook]
John v.d.Brook Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7348
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Thank you. Other thoughts? Of course, I'm aware of audition requirements. If you read Peabody or Juilliard's list, they are much more rigorous than say most state universities. I am more interested in knowing/learning what you'd like to see as the student's background/repertoire.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#2014202 - 01/14/13 02:36 AM Re: Students preparing for music major [Re: John v.d.Brook]
musicpassion Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 934
Loc: California, USA
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
For you in the academic community, what are your expectations concerning Classical and Baroque repertoire that you'd like students to have studied as potential music majors?


I'm not teaching at University, but I prepare students for admissions (only some of my students of course). So my comments are from that perspective.

First general thought is that some programs are very, very competetive in the piano departments. So what does a student need to gain admission and do well in a department like that? I think that's beyond my ability to answer in a forum post. But I do think we know and recognize such a pianist when we hear him (or her).

So getting to my actual point... my comments are geared toward the "average" music major, not the elite-one-in-a-million student. Also I'm trying to be realistic about what a student might have actually studied.

Quote:
Beethoven - which sonatas?
I like them to have studied something from the opus 49s early on. A bagatelle. Then work in two or three sonatas - I like the lists already posted so won't duplicate.

Quote:
Haydn

Because exams are generally centered around historical music periods, Haydn sometimes gets ignored in favor of Mozart or Clementi. If the exam system lumps Beethoven into the same catagory then Haydn really gets neglected. I'm not saying I like this or think this is ideal... just stating what I have seen happen.

Quote:
Mozart

At least work from two different sonatas, and at least one movment in Sonata-Allegro form. The examples already listed are good.

Quote:
Any others?

Oh yes: Chopin. They should have studied some significant Chopin, included Nocturnes and Waltzes. Although they should have studied some major etude I'm ok with a student picking another etude besides Chopin. However Chopin is probably the most common choice.

Another important catagory (I think): The great Russain composers. I try to have students play something from this school.

Quote:
Same questions for the Baroque period. Which Bach would you like students to have tackled?


Generally students will have studied at least some Two Part Inventions, some movements from a French Suite, and a Prelude and Fugue from the WTC.

Quote:
Other composers?

Don't forget the contemporary composers.
_________________________
Pianist and Piano Teacher

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#2014316 - 01/14/13 09:54 AM Re: Students preparing for music major [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Minniemay Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 1702
Loc: CA
I wasn't speaking from a point of admissions. The admissions requirements at the major schools like Juilliard and Eastman are nearly identical.

I sent a student off to conservatory this past fall. I knew already in 2008 or so that he would likely do this -- could see the handwriting on the wall. I sat down and made a list of all the repertoire I wanted him to have studied by the time he graduated. That was the best thing I could ever have done. It kept us focused, even during competition season.

We didn't study every piece in depth, of course, but he covered everything on the list (with a few substitutions here and there) and his college teacher commented to me how well-rounded his repertoire is. His current competition repertoire is mostly the last few things he studied with me, being tweaked and refined with his current teacher.

It's hard to keep perspective and to stay grounded. Doing a major outline like I did was the saving grace.
_________________________
B.A., Piano, Piano Pegagogy, Music Ed.
M.M., Piano

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#2014469 - 01/14/13 02:01 PM Re: Students preparing for music major [Re: John v.d.Brook]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5458
Loc: Orange County, CA
RE: Baroque

I think it is the most neglected era. There are many composers beside J.S. Bach whose work is worth learning: Scarlatti, Handel, Rameau, Couperin, Purcell, and Seixas. If you want to include the late-Baroque/early-classical: C.P.E. Bach, W.F. Bach, Galuppi, Cimarosa, Paradisi, and Soler.

The problem is, most kids don't find music from this era interesting at all. In fact, most detest, loathe, and abhor Baroque music. If I weren't so enthusiastic about teaching Baroque music, I doubt half of my students would learn as many Bach pieces as they do, and for those who continue to resist learning Bach, well, they can have the most "romantic" Rameau and Scarlatti pieces.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#2014530 - 01/14/13 04:20 PM Re: Students preparing for music major [Re: Minniemay]
John v.d.Brook Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7348
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Minniemay
I wasn't speaking from a point of admissions. The admissions requirements at the major schools like Juilliard and Eastman are nearly identical.

I sent a student off to conservatory this past fall. I knew already in 2008 or so that he would likely do this -- could see the handwriting on the wall. I sat down and made a list of all the repertoire I wanted him to have studied by the time he graduated. That was the best thing I could ever have done. It kept us focused, even during competition season.

We didn't study every piece in depth, of course, but he covered everything on the list (with a few substitutions here and there) and his college teacher commented to me how well-rounded his repertoire is. His current competition repertoire is mostly the last few things he studied with me, being tweaked and refined with his current teacher.

It's hard to keep perspective and to stay grounded. Doing a major outline like I did was the saving grace.

Thank you. This is precisely why I'm asking. I can read Juilliard's admissions and audition requirements very easily, thank you very much. In fact, I've printed them out, along with Peobody's, for use by parents and an aggressive 8th grader. I don't want to teach to the "test" as it were, but want to insure that my teaching encompasses the whole of the preparation faculty are looking for, in their "heart of hearts."

Quote:
Juilliard Audition Requirements
The entire audition program should reach a minimum of 45 minutes. Shorter programs may be subject to approval by the piano faculty.
1. Bach: A prelude and fugue from The Well-Tempered Clavier or another work containing a fugue. (No transcriptions permitted.)
2. One of the following:
a. An entire sonata by Beethoven (excluding Opp. 14, 49, and 79), or
b. One of the following Haydn sonatas: Hob. 20, 23, 32, 46, 49, 50, 52, or
c. One of the following Mozart sonatas:  K. 281, 284, 310, 332, 333, 457, 533, or 576, or
d. One of the following Schubert sonatas: D. 568, 664, 784, 845, 850, 894, 958, 959, 960, or the Wanderer Fantasie, D. 760.
3. A substantial composition by Chopin, Schumann, Brahms, Liszt, or Mendelssohn. (Etudes, nocturnes, short dances, waltzes, or comparable pieces are not acceptable.)
4. Two virtuosic etudes:
a. one by Chopin, and
b. one by Bartók, Debussy, Ligeti, Liszt, Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff, Scriabin, or Stravinsky.
5. A substantial work, or a collection of shorter works, of the applicant’s choice which is:
a. in a different style and by a composer other than those selected for the previous requirements, and
b. not less than six minutes.

Peabody Audition Requirements
Undergraduate piano applications must upload a pre-screening video to DecisionDesk by December 1. The video must include:
A sonata-allegro movement from a classical sonata
a major romantic work
one virtuosic etude
Applicants passing the pre-screening will be required to perform at Peabody in person for admission. Here is the required repertoire:
1. BAROQUE - A Prelude and Fugue or any other work containing a fugue by J.S. Bach.
2. CLASSICAL - Complete (All-Movements) sonata by Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven or Schubert. The Mozart G Major Sonata, K. 283, and Beethoven Sonata, Op. 49 may not be used to fulfill this requirement.
3. ROMANTIC - A major solo work by a 19th-century composer. For example - Chopin: Ballades, Scherzi, or Sonata; Brahms: Op. 118 or 119 (complete); Liszt: Dante Sonata, Vallee d'Obermann or a Hungarian Rhapsody. Note: A Chopin Nocturne or Etude may not be used to fulfill this requirement.
4. 20TH CENTURY - A major solo work.
5. ETUDE - A virtuoso Etude by one of the following composers: Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Scriabin, Debussy, Bartok, or Stravinsky.
6. TRANSFER STUDENTS ONLY: Must present one additional virtuosic etude from Chopin, Liszt, Debussy, or Rachmaninoff.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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