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Originally Posted by wr
[...]Probably something like "[the diamond-shaped note] means to press the key again silently". In the context it looks like that would mean to lift the hand while still holding the chord with the pedal, then silently pressing the keys to catch the sound before completely lifting the pedal. "Ablösen" can have a sense of taking over from, or superseding, something, so the most precise word for the translation might be "retaking", to say that you are to silently retake the notes with the D keys, after having sounded them in the preceding chord.


I don't see the sense in that. Since the D's are tied, what is the point of releasing them and then pressing them down silently? If they are tied, as I see them to be, doesn't one simply hold them while releasing the F-sharp and A, as indicated by the rest? Who is going to hear whatever difference there may be, in any case?

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In string music diamond shape notes indicate harmonics. Don't you play harmonics on piano by 'silently holding a note down' and striking another? I don't know if this can apply here because I haven't looked at the music, but that's the way it sounds from the descriptions.

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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by wr
[...]Probably something like "[the diamond-shaped note] means to press the key again silently". In the context it looks like that would mean to lift the hand while still holding the chord with the pedal, then silently pressing the keys to catch the sound before completely lifting the pedal. "Ablösen" can have a sense of taking over from, or superseding, something, so the most precise word for the translation might be "retaking", to say that you are to silently retake the notes with the D keys, after having sounded them in the preceding chord.


I don't see the sense in that. Since the D's are tied, what is the point of releasing them and then pressing them down silently? If they are tied, as I see them to be, doesn't one simply hold them while releasing the F-sharp and A, as indicated by the rest? Who is going to hear whatever difference there may be, in any case?



But it doesn't look to me like the D's are actually tied. There's nothing in the note values that would indicate that the sixteenth-note rest only applies to the F# and A but not to the D's. And too, the preceding chord that contains the D's has a staccato dot, which would seem to mean the keys really should come up.

Anyway, it seems to me like fairly capricious notation that should have been explained more fully. In my theory of what it might mean, the only difference in actual sound would be if the pianist did some pretty deft catching of the sound as the pedal was being released.


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Originally Posted by pianoslacker
In string music diamond shape notes indicate harmonics. Don't you play harmonics on piano by 'silently holding a note down' and striking another? I don't know if this can apply here because I haven't looked at the music, but that's the way it sounds from the descriptions.

I am curious now - can harmonics be produce on the piano by doing this? When you have an harmonic, you hear a crystal glass kind of sound. Can this be achieved on a keyboard?

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Originally Posted by wr
Originally Posted by BDB
It might be worthwhile to look at the original organ score to see what this might mean.


I did look, and to me, it didn't really help to clarify things, except to show that the transcriber was being fairly creative, rather than trying to stay close to the original score.

do you mean in the notation itself?

Meanwhile your proposed translation shows the fine line that translators have to tread. You should have sufficient knowledge before accepting such work so that you don't end up with nonsense like "silent buttons", but you also don't want to overstep and put in your own interpretation. "Abloesen" does have that meaning: like in the changing of the guards, where one guard replaces the next and at that moment one is stepping out of duty while the other is stepping in. I think that translation might work, *if* that is what was meant. Has anyone tried playing the passage for more insight?

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Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by pianoslacker
In string music diamond shape notes indicate harmonics. Don't you play harmonics on piano by 'silently holding a note down' and striking another? I don't know if this can apply here because I haven't looked at the music, but that's the way it sounds from the descriptions.

I am curious now - can harmonics be produce on the piano by doing this? When you have an harmonic, you hear a crystal glass kind of sound. Can this be achieved on a keyboard?


Sure, I've seen and heard it done. I can't try it out myself though because I have a digital grin

Anyway I had a look online at the score of Bartok's piece 'Harmonics' from Mikrocosmos, and it turns out that diamond shaped notes indicate harmonics in piano music too. There's also the footnote to hold the key down silently or some such, so I don't think there's any mystery here any more.

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