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#2014066 - 01/13/13 07:39 PM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: gvfarns]
NoviceJazzer Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 14
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
We almost never have discussions about reliability by brand. For the most part, digital pianos are completely hassle free. If there are issues, they don't seem to be pervasive across any particular brand.

Basically, they are all pretty reliable and when there are issues, all the major companies are pretty good at resolving them with minimal trouble for you.

Basically, they conform to the Japanese stereotype.


Thanks, I appreciate it.

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#2014135 - 01/13/13 10:15 PM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Man of La Mancha]
personne Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/24/12
Posts: 123
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Man of La Mancha
It is usually said that those three brands are the Big Three in digital pianos. However, in the Piano World, these three do not seem to be the same and this thread is a "proof." Kawai seems to be the most preferred and recommended brand, followed by Yamaha. Roland, once a venerable brand in the digital instrument world, seems to be falling behind these two brands while it is being pushed from the behind by Casio.

In my area it is hard to find Kawai, between Roland and Yamaha, Roland is represented more in stores IMO.
Casio cannot push from behind, as they are just in the different price range than Roland - they rather compete with cheap Yamahas.

And yes, I am quite happy with my Roland, however I will not go into every topic if this is everything I have to say - while those who would like to complain usually have more smile

Roland and Yamaha are just too different sounds, and it is matter of taste which to prefer. Kawai is closer to Yamaha, I believe.


Edited by personne (01/13/13 10:20 PM)
_________________________
Playing on Roland HP-507RW

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#2014190 - 01/14/13 01:56 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Man of La Mancha]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Man of La Mancha
Roland, once a venerable brand in the digital instrument world, seems to be falling behind these two brands while it is being pushed from the behind by Casio. This a general impression that I have gotten after reading various threads here. .


Try reading them again .... WTF are you smoking ? SN, PHAIII... not to mention the technically amazing V .... Roland are without doubt the current leader in DP design and technology.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2014194 - 01/14/13 02:05 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Dustin Spray]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Regarding Roland -- I have ruled them out from my options pretty early actually. I had a shop assistant play one of the HP series for me the same day I was fooling around with the 470 and the sound didn't quite strike a chord with me. frown It felt sort of "sparkly" and too bright compared to Yamaha's more mellow, milder sound.

Now if I'm not mistaken, Roland use Steinway samples, which is fine and dandy, but I also seem to recall reading/hearing somewhere that they use different models for different tones/ranges, thereby creating some sort of super-piano. Also, Roland have a long history of producing quality electronic keyboards but they have never produced an acoustic piano before, unlike Yamaha and Kawai.

Mind you, this isn't to diss Roland products. I can clearly see that many people here like their touch and sound, but for someone who presumably looks for authentic sound and key action, it seems an odd choice to pick a Roland DP.
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2014210 - 01/14/13 03:11 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Clayman]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Clayman
Regarding Roland -- I have ruled them out from my options pretty early actually. I had a shop assistant play one of the HP series for me the same day I was fooling around with the 470 and the sound didn't quite strike a chord with me. frown It felt sort of "sparkly" and too bright compared to Yamaha's more mellow, milder sound.

Are you kidding ? Yamahas are far far brighter then Roland's dark woody Steinway based tonality.

Originally Posted By: Clayman

Mind you, this isn't to diss Roland products. I can clearly see that many people here like their touch and sound, but for someone who presumably looks for authentic sound and key action, it seems an odd choice to pick a Roland DP.

Not at all Roland currently offer a far more authentic sound and action then any other brand.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2014211 - 01/14/13 03:14 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Dr Popper]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9367
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Not at all Roland currently offer a far more authentic sound and action then any other brand.


Sound, maybe.
Action, no way.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2014213 - 01/14/13 03:24 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Dustin Spray]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 453
Loc: Europe
Dustin Spray, maybe you become confused about what you wanted to say about the Roland and Yamaha sounds concerning their brightness? You would be the first to claim that Roland sounds are too bright compared to Yamahas. It is just the other way round, Yamaha (and Kawai) sound is much brighter than Roland sound.
Furthermore, the key action of the Rolands performs in the range of many key actions as you can find them on very nice grand pianos: light weighted. So, how can you state because of the key action it would be an odd choice to go for a key action of Roland DPs?


Edited by Marco M (01/14/13 04:43 AM)
Edit Reason: Sorry, didn´t see that others already answered on the original post, when I tried to make it more precise.
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#2014215 - 01/14/13 03:37 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Clayman]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3707
Loc: Northern England.
It might be of interest that Roland hasn`t produced natural pianos; they do not therefore have to consider conflicting financial interests. In which case - why haven`t they got longer keys?? And better samples for less money? SACK the MD!

Yamaha and Kawai sample their own pianos of course. They would do that wouldn`t they? . . . .My jaundiced view of things .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes — but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2014220 - 01/14/13 03:58 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Marco M]
Dustin Spray Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 51
Loc: Central Illinois
Originally Posted By: Marco M
Dustin Speray, maybe you become confused about what what you wanted to say about the Roland and Yamaha sound concerning their brightness? You would be the first to claim that Roland sounds too bright compared to Yamahas. Almost everybody has just the opposite impression, that Yamaha (and Kawai) sound is much brighter than Roland sound. Some even claim that Roland sound would appear 'muffled'.
Furthermore, the key action of the Rolands performs in the range of many key actions as you can find them on very nice grand pianos, nicely light. So, how can you state because of the key action it would be an odd choice to go for a key action of Roland DPs?


No, definatly not. I thought the action of the Rolands appeared to be noisy when quietly played and the sound was muffled. I sampled the Roland HP503 & HP505. I thought I was sold on a Yamaha CLP470 when these fine folks on this forum recommended that I look at the Kawai CA series. Over the past weekend I visited a piano store and played on a Kawai CA65 and was sold. The sound was great and the action and feel was even better. Like I said, I was hung up on the Yamaha till I tried the Kawai. It was a real pleasure to play. I think I am going to call up the store and have them get me one ready for pickup next weekend! Im excited!!! grin

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#2014226 - 01/14/13 04:21 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Marco M]
Hookxs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
Originally Posted By: Marco M
Dustin Speray, maybe you become confused about what what you wanted to say about the Roland and Yamaha sound concerning their brightness? You would be the first to claim that Roland sounds too bright compared to Yamahas. Almost everybody has just the opposite impression, that Yamaha (and Kawai) sound is much brighter than Roland sound. Some even claim that Roland sound would appear 'muffled'.
Furthermore, the key action of the Rolands performs in the range of many key actions as you can find them on very nice grand pianos, nicely light. So, how can you state because of the key action it would be an odd choice to go for a key action of Roland DPs?


When people refer to Roland sound as muffled, they typically mean the speaker system. In headphones, it is not muffled at all. I agree that Rolands SN is mellower/warmer than Kawai/Yamaha. When played through speakers, from middle C up the sound just...isn't there - that would be my biggest complaint about the sound of Roland HPs (one of two complaints, the other is disbalance of key samples, possibly very subjective).
As for the action - if it were not so loud, I would love it, though I agree it feels less realistic that Kawai GF for example.

Marco M - you say that Roland SN is not suitable for jazz. From my modest attemps at little jazz pieces I would say it sounds pretty darn good. The bass and dynamic range are superb. What I found difficult was to carry a high melodic line over bass accompaniment, often present in romantic pieces. The melody either wasn't there from the beginning (as opposed to bass) or died too quickly. So my perception is very different from yours, which only shows how subjective are our opinions on which sound is better.

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#2014230 - 01/14/13 04:41 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Dustin Spray]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 453
Loc: Europe
Actually, I agree with you that the SN sound can be very nice sounding in a jazz tune. But the "usual" sound I hear in modern music is the bright one, and therefore SN sound used for such music could appear unexpectedley dull. Just because of what we become biased to by everydays noise exposure.
And I also agree with you that I have to accent the melody line over a bass line quite noticable. I thought this would be normal, I read about this in my method books as well, where they usually reference to acoustic pianos. Wasn´t aware that this on the ROLANDs is more evident than on other pianos - well, there is always something to learn.
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#2014236 - 01/14/13 05:04 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Marco M]
Hookxs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
Originally Posted By: Marco M
But the "usual" sound I hear in modern music is the bright one, and therefore SN sound used for such music could appear unexpectedley dull.


I listen mostly to solo piano. So what I refered to as "jazz" (harmonically rich and rhytmically interesting modern piano pieces, no background "fog" of other instruments) can be only a small subset of what is commonly known as jazz. I played a few things for which I knew the "ground truth" - professional acoustic recording - and I really liked what I heard from the HP, especially in moments when bass lines needed to be emphasized.

Originally Posted By: Marco M
Wasn´t aware that this on the ROLANDs is more evident than on other pianos - well, there is always something to learn.


I would say it's more evident on most DPs than on most acoustics, because of the short decay time of DPs. The melody simply fades too quickly. Apart from that, on the Roland HP I played, I had to EQ the hights very strongly to keep up with the bass, mainly when playing over speakers. The negative side effect is that EQing also amplifies high overtones in bass notes, rendering them less pleasant. On Kawai CA95 you can increase volume of individual keys (as opposed to frequency), which could do do trick on Roland HPs. Ironically it is not neccassary on CA95 because tones are very balanced volume-wise.

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#2014244 - 01/14/13 06:03 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Dr Popper]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper

Are you kidding ? Yamahas are far far brighter then Roland's dark woody Steinway based tonality.


Come to think of it, I'm not sure what kind of sound that Roland was set to. It may have used some fancier setting to make it sound brighter than usual. At any rate, what I described was only my impression on the sound and me and the shop assistant actually agreed on that.

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper

Not at all Roland currently offer a far more authentic sound and action then any other brand.


I don't dare judge this as I have never played a piano before but I consider these aspects very subjective and it seems that some people here beg to differ.
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2014245 - 01/14/13 06:07 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Kawai James]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Not at all Roland currently offer a far more authentic sound and action then any other brand.


Sound, maybe.
Action, no way.

James
x


I said sound and action .... Yeah the MP10 has a better action .... VST'S have a better sound. Even the CP1 has a better all round vibe when your playing it.
But in my view the RD700NX has the best all round combination of sound and action. With the studio grand being the best voice on any shipping DP and the PHAIII being probably the 2nd most realistic action.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2014250 - 01/14/13 06:16 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Dustin Spray]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9367
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I'm not sure I follow you:

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Roland currently offer a far more authentic sound and action then any other brand.


...but...

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
...the MP10 has a better action...


You're contradicting yourself, surely?
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2014254 - 01/14/13 06:29 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Dustin Spray]
Hookxs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 247
Loc: Czech Republic
I believe Dr Popper means "sound and action" when evaluated together as a bundle, not separately. Other pianos may have better sound OR action but not both (my understanding of Dr's statement).


Edited by Hookxs (01/14/13 06:30 AM)

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#2014257 - 01/14/13 06:37 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Dustin Spray]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9367
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Ah, I see.

Yeah, well...[grumble]

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2014263 - 01/14/13 07:17 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Kawai James]
KLSinCT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/12
Posts: 148
Loc: Stonington, CT USA
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Not at all Roland currently offer a far more authentic sound and action then any other brand.


Sound, maybe.
Action, no way.

James
x


If they could only marry the SuperNATURAL sound engine with a Kawai wooden action (like the new GF), I'd be in heaven.... 3hearts

K.
_________________________
Kevin L. Spindler
Early Keyboard Instruments
Stonington, CT
Harpsichords & Clavichords
Custom Instruments Built to Order
Rebuilding, Repair & Restoration
http://www.facebook.com/kevin.spindler.129

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#2014265 - 01/14/13 07:18 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Hookxs]
personne Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/24/12
Posts: 123
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Hookxs
[quote=Marco M]When people refer to Roland sound as muffled, they typically mean the speaker system. In headphones, it is not muffled at all. I agree that Rolands SN is mellower/warmer than Kawai/Yamaha.
What I found difficult was to carry a high melodic line over bass accompaniment, often present in romantic pieces. The melody either wasn't there from the beginning (as opposed to bass) or died too quickly.

Interesting, I have quite a different experience - I used to play on upright (although I did not play for some years), but I do not seem to do anything differently with high melodic line, while the bass line I have to highlight more - the reason is that Roland's action is somewhat heavier than upright.
I do not like long notes dying before they need to die on digitals - but it is the way it is frown

As for the speaker system on Roland, I actually enjoy experience through the speakers on my HP-507 more than from headphones - the reason is that some functions like reverb, soundboard behavier, hammer noise, may be a few more, are not available through headphones - but they make playing experience richer and less 'digital'.
I like their Sound Projection system too smile
_________________________
Playing on Roland HP-507RW

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#2014271 - 01/14/13 07:43 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Kawai James]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Ah, I see.

Yeah, well...[grumble]

James
x


wink
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2014272 - 01/14/13 07:44 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: KLSinCT]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: KLSinCT
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Not at all Roland currently offer a far more authentic sound and action then any other brand.


Sound, maybe.
Action, no way.

James
x


If they could only marry the SuperNATURAL sound engine with a Kawai wooden action (like the new GF), I'd be in heaven.... 3hearts

K.


Get yourself a Integra - 7 and wait a few weeks wink
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2014274 - 01/14/13 07:51 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Hookxs]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Hookxs
I believe Dr Popper means "sound and action" when evaluated together as a bundle, not separately. Other pianos may have better sound OR action but not both (my understanding of Dr's statement).


Your correct except that no DP has a better piano patch the Roland's SN Studio grand. It's technically perfect and its tonality is superb. You have to go to a VST to get anything that's a more complete patch and even then it's better then most VST's.


Edited by Dr Popper (01/14/13 07:51 AM)
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2014280 - 01/14/13 08:18 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Dr Popper]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9367
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Get yourself a Integra - 7 and wait a few weeks wink


That'll work. wink

I actually suggested shooting some pics of the Integra-7 placed on top of the VPC - no takers.

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Your correct except that no DP has a better piano patch the Roland's SN Studio grand. It's technically perfect and its tonality is superb. You have to go to a VST to get anything that's a more complete patch and even then it's better then most VST's.


Are we including Nords here too?
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2014345 - 01/14/13 10:48 AM Re: Yamaha vs Kawai vs Roland [Re: Kawai James]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Kawai James


Are we including Nords here too?


Yes James .... while a nord XL sample might have great tonality ( and many do ) the patches aren't technically good enough to compete with a SN patch.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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