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#2014308 - 01/14/13 09:37 AM Yamaha CP5 vs the Clavinova CLP range for example CLP-440
boyonahill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 90
Loc: Europe
Hi,

There isn't that much talk about the CP5 as an alternative to a Yamaha Clavinova CLP, for example the CLP-440? I'm wondering why?

So, if we disregard that one needs to buy speakers (amp and stand) for a CP5, how does the piano sound and keyboard etc. of the CP5 compare to a similarly priced Clavinova, where I live the CLP-440 has almost the exact same price.

Since I've got OK speakers (or at least once that will be OK for a while) the price for the two would be the same.


CLP-440 pros
* Key-Off, String Resonance and Stereo Sustain samples


CP5 pros
* SCM (Spectral Component Modeling) technology
* NW-STAGE wooden weighted keyboard


So, how would you say the two compares focused on acoustic piano usage?


Edited by boyonahill (01/14/13 09:38 AM)
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Current: Casio SA-46 + looking for a nice electronic piano
Sold: Yamaha M5J Walnut
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#2014333 - 01/14/13 10:28 AM Re: Yamaha CP5 vs the Clavinova CLP range for example CLP-440 [Re: boyonahill]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Confidentially ..... The actual sound is almost the same That D/A and effects chain of the CP5 is much better and it has a second piano (S6) with a darker flavour but the basic sample set underpinning both boards is identical. If you like the Yamaha sound then the CP5 is a excellent choice.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2014352 - 01/14/13 11:00 AM Re: Yamaha CP5 vs the Clavinova CLP range for example CLP-440 [Re: boyonahill]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
The 'wooden' action in this instance is merely cosmetic. If you played the various keyboard actions you wouldn't be able to pick out the wooden one with your eyes closed.

It's another item to be placed on a comparative list just like Spectral Component Modeling.

Just play the various keyboards and buy what you like. You're not going to be buried with it. In a few years you'll be tempted to trade it in and buy something with newer technology ... even if there's not much of an audible improvement.
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#2014445 - 01/14/13 01:15 PM Re: Yamaha CP5 vs the Clavinova CLP range for example CLP-440 [Re: Dr Popper]
boyonahill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 90
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Confidentially ..... The actual sound is almost the same That D/A and effects chain of the CP5 is much better and it has a second piano (S6) with a darker flavour but the basic sample set underpinning both boards is identical. If you like the Yamaha sound then the CP5 is a excellent choice.


OK! I think the CP5 looks way more modern, the CLP:s look a little 1990:s. Shallow, I am.

Any ideas on how or what product to use as stand with the CP5? Since I'm almost entirely am going to use it at home I'm thinking I'll place it on some kind of small table? I hate wobbly cheap X-stands but I'm open for input that there might be some great portable stands or something like that out there.
_________________________
Current: Casio SA-46 + looking for a nice electronic piano
Sold: Yamaha M5J Walnut
Playing ability: Absolute Beginner(s)

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#2014448 - 01/14/13 01:17 PM Re: Yamaha CP5 vs the Clavinova CLP range for example CLP-440 [Re: Dave Horne]
boyonahill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 90
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
The 'wooden' action in this instance is merely cosmetic. If you played the various keyboard actions you wouldn't be able to pick out the wooden one with your eyes closed.

It's another item to be placed on a comparative list just like Spectral Component Modeling.

Just play the various keyboards and buy what you like. You're not going to be buried with it. In a few years you'll be tempted to trade it in and buy something with newer technology ... even if there's not much of an audible improvement.


Thanks for helping me stay real! I easily get caught up in details, and as you say I might want to switch in some years anyway.

But I think I'll be able to pick a wood action keyboard with my eyes closed. Because even if the core is plastic, I can smell the wooden smell with my nose!
_________________________
Current: Casio SA-46 + looking for a nice electronic piano
Sold: Yamaha M5J Walnut
Playing ability: Absolute Beginner(s)

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#2014550 - 01/14/13 05:09 PM Re: Yamaha CP5 vs the Clavinova CLP range for example CLP-440 [Re: boyonahill]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9551
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
It's perhaps worth noting that unlike the CLP models, the CP5 and CP1 keyboard actions are not grade-weighted from bass to treble.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2014553 - 01/14/13 05:20 PM Re: Yamaha CP5 vs the Clavinova CLP range for example CLP-440 [Re: Kawai James]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
It's perhaps worth noting that unlike the CLP models, the CP5 and CP1 keyboard actions are not grade-weighted from bass to treble.

Kind regards,
James
x


James, you say that like it's a bad thing. smile

A graded action on a digital keyboard makes the top octaves even lighter than the already light weight of the rest of the keyboard. This is just more advertising hype.

If you want a real acoustic action buy an acoustic piano or a hybrid. The manufacturers of digital keyboards bend over backwards to sell the public that what they offer is an approximation of the real thing.

These are all the types of check listed items conscientious buyers check off on their list of must have features.

They use real fancy descriptions of how they capture the sound of an acoustic grand ... just play the keyboards and judge them using your ears and the way the action responds to your touch.

The only action you really need is a weighted action.



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#2014570 - 01/14/13 06:00 PM Re: Yamaha CP5 vs the Clavinova CLP range for example CLP-440 [Re: Dave Horne]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
A graded action on a digital keyboard makes the top octaves even lighter than the already light weight of the rest of the keyboard. This is just more advertising hype.


Surely you meant the other way around, right? (that the bottom octaves are heavier than the already heavy weight of a standard digital.) By far the more common complaint in this forum (and in my experience) is that digital keys are heavier than their acoustic equivalents--very few people complain of them being lighter.

I've also had the personal sense that digitals are not graded enough to mimic their acoustic brethren. When you play in the very top octave of an acoustic the keys practically play themselves because so little force is required (the fact that you are not lifting a damper may be part of this). I have never had that sensation on a digital. The top octaves seem quite a bit too heavy to mimic an acoustic.

I do agree with the sentiment of your post. The Yamaha NW-stage action tries much less hard to be acoustic-like but yet is much beloved. It's probably closer to the ergonomic ideal than acoustics are.


Edited by gvfarns (01/14/13 06:01 PM)

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#2014577 - 01/14/13 06:15 PM Re: Yamaha CP5 vs the Clavinova CLP range for example CLP-440 [Re: boyonahill]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
I suggest that those who think that the actions of digital keyboards are too heavy give up playing their keyboards and play exclusively on unmaintained grands, the ones that frequent many hotels and restaurants. smile

There are so many folks here who have never played a real piano, you know, the ones that still exist in the wild. We still receive questions about the top two octaves that are undamped. Is this a flaw?

I have never played a digital keyboard action that was too heavy. The best that I played was the CP300 ... and probably also the Roland A80. The Fatar actions in the Nord keyboards are not wonderful. People have forgotten what a great action really feels like.
_________________________
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AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#2014586 - 01/14/13 06:32 PM Re: Yamaha CP5 vs the Clavinova CLP range for example CLP-440 [Re: gvfarns]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5423
Originally Posted By: gvfarns


Surely you meant the other way around, right? (that the bottom octaves are heavier than the already heavy weight of a standard digital.) By far the more common complaint in this forum (and in my experience) is that digital keys are heavier than their acoustic equivalents--very few people complain of them being lighter.

I've also had the personal sense that digitals are not graded enough to mimic their acoustic brethren. When you play in the very top octave of an acoustic the keys practically play themselves because so little force is required (the fact that you are not lifting a damper may be part of this). I have never had that sensation on a digital. The top octaves seem quite a bit too heavy to mimic an acoustic.



Among acoustics, I find that some high-end manufacturers like Fazioli strive to minimize this grading, which is one of the more undesirable 'artifacts' of the acoustic piano action. Fazioli grands have rather less difference between the bottom notes and the top ones, compared to cheaper brands.

The worst 'offender' I've played in this regard was a Yamaha baby grand at a holiday resort that I stayed in two years ago - the bottom keys were really inordinately heavy. After two weeks of playing on it for 2-3 hours/day (in between sunbathing and scuba-diving grin), I returned home and immediately paid a visit to the Fazioli showroom.......what a contrast (and what a relief)!
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"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2014610 - 01/14/13 07:33 PM Re: Yamaha CP5 vs the Clavinova CLP range for example CLP-440 [Re: Dave Horne]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9551
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
It's perhaps worth noting that unlike the CLP models, the CP5 and CP1 keyboard actions are not grade-weighted from bass to treble.

Kind regards,
James
x


James, you say that like it's a bad thing. smile


No, I'm just pointing out that the two keyboard actions have different weighting characteristics.
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2014652 - 01/14/13 09:49 PM Re: Yamaha CP5 vs the Clavinova CLP range for example CLP-440 [Re: boyonahill]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
The big Yammies have only a very slight grading .... I'd think my CF is only a few % heavier at the bottom then the top. DP's seem to have more severe gradings.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2014686 - 01/14/13 11:25 PM Re: Yamaha CP5 vs the Clavinova CLP range for example CLP-440 [Re: boyonahill]
boyonahill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 90
Loc: Europe
So, to make the digital pianos feel like real acoustic pianos, the manufacturers make them "Hyper real". Keys so heavy they are "too heavy", so graded that they are too graded. So what you end up with isn't "real" at all.

The same thing exists with movies. When they make computer-animated movies, the physics are programmed to be NOT real, but what the director thinks the viewers think is real, or expect. We end up with unrealistic physics.

Another "heavy is good" trend exists in wristwatches, where many watches have become annoyingly heavy!


So, how about some good tips how to place/stage a stage piano in a home/studio enviroment?


Edited by boyonahill (01/14/13 11:26 PM)
_________________________
Current: Casio SA-46 + looking for a nice electronic piano
Sold: Yamaha M5J Walnut
Playing ability: Absolute Beginner(s)

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