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#2013113 - 01/11/13 10:01 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3876
Out of boredom, and to expand my skills, there was a time when I used to choose different notes to set a temperament from. It's not the note you start from, it's the result that counts.
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www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






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#2013145 - 01/12/13 12:01 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Eric Gloo]
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 2043
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted By: Eric Gloo
Originally Posted By: Mark R.


Eric, how would you start a temperament at F#3? (Keeping in mind that I tune from A440 by fork.) I suppose I could tune D4 as a slightly tempered P5 from A4, and then construct a ladder of CM3s: F#3-A#3-D4-F#4-A#4. But then everything would hinge on that first P5?



How far into setting your temperament octave do you come to F3? If it is near the beginning, can you reverse things to make it near the end, or AT the end...and simply tune it as an octave to F4?


It's very close to the beginning - basically right at the start.
A4 to fork
A3 to A4 (4:2 +)
F3 to A3 (estimate)
F4 to F3 (4:2 +)
C#4 to A3 (to fit into the set of contiguous M3s)
If the CM3s are not beating progressively, then F3, F4 and C#4 are corrected. Once they are progressive, the rest of the temperament is constructed (using P4s and P5s).

So you see, this particular sequence cannot do without F3 from the very beginning.
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.

1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

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#2013178 - 01/12/13 01:43 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Brittin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 11
I had a call today where a customer wanted their piano tuned but
they could not remember the name of the street they lived on. They gave me nice directions and there house number though.

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#2014099 - 01/13/13 08:56 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
plns Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/12
Posts: 60
Still tuning for a piano store for free. Why? Because I still need practice. Started on a baby grand. Stopped when I realized it was in need of repair. One string had a horrible phantom vibration, another string wouldn't change pitch no matter what I did and another sounded like a dying elephant.

Went onto an upright and tuned that. Sounded nice when I finished. Oh, fixed a sticky key. Still working on getting my tunings to 1.5 hours. I'm still hovering around 2 hours.


Edited by plns (01/13/13 09:19 PM)

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#2014307 - 01/14/13 09:35 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: plns]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4949
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Originally Posted By: plns
Still tuning for a piano store for free. Why? Because I still need practice. Started on a baby grand. Stopped when I realized it was in need of repair. One string had a horrible phantom vibration, another string wouldn't change pitch no matter what I did and another sounded like a dying elephant.

Went onto an upright and tuned that. Sounded nice when I finished. Oh, fixed a sticky key. Still working on getting my tunings to 1.5 hours. I'm still hovering around 2 hours.


Where is the store? I've always wanted to know what a dying elephant sounds like, but don't want to get in trouble for killing one.
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#2014323 - 01/14/13 10:10 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: plns]
Emmery Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2447
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
Originally Posted By: plns
Still tuning for a piano store for free. Why? Because I still need practice. Started on a baby grand. Stopped when I realized it was in need of repair. One string had a horrible phantom vibration, another string wouldn't change pitch no matter what I did and another sounded like a dying elephant...


If the strings were nearby each other you likely got the hammer on the wrong pin. sometimes rusty strings will get caught up at the bearing points and need a greater amount of pin movement to break them free....always go to the flat side first before pulling these up to pitch. Going flat first also prevents string breakage if your accidently on the wrong pin.
_________________________
Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region

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#2014324 - 01/14/13 10:17 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
I'm setting in my recliner recuperating from my Gallbladder surgery. That's what my last 3 days have consisted of. Friday, Saturday and Sunday and now Monday too. Other than pacing the house when I get bored out of my mind which I do frequently. I have to move around too! Funny how sleepy we get while we heal.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#2014354 - 01/14/13 11:05 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
Emmery Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2447
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
I'm setting in my recliner recuperating from my Gallbladder surgery. That's what my last 3 days have consisted of. Friday, Saturday and Sunday and now Monday too. Other than pacing the house when I get bored out of my mind which I do frequently. I have to move around too! Funny how sleepy we get while we heal.


I figured you would be daydreaming about all the delicious but "too rich" foods your going to be passing up on in the future Jerry.
_________________________
Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region

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#2014418 - 01/14/13 12:34 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
You're right Emmery! I day dream about them every time I turn on the television and it shows me what I'm missing and what I really want! MMMMMMM. M*M's. and more M&M's. How come all the good stuff is soooo bad for us?
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#2014431 - 01/14/13 12:57 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Emmery Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2447
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
There is a positive thing to having that gallbladder removed. You never have to worry about constipation again...just order up a lb of chicken wings and it'll clean you right out (or so I've heard). You might advertise yourself as a "vegan" tuner in the future. I have heard jokingly from native indians that the word "vegan" in their language means "lousy hunter".


Edited by Emmery (01/14/13 12:57 PM)
_________________________
Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region

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#2014447 - 01/14/13 01:16 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Emmery]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: Emmery
I have heard jokingly from native indians that the word "vegan" in their language means "lousy hunter".

ROTFL!

I've been sending Jerry lots of PM's so he won't get too bored.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2014521 - 01/14/13 04:04 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Yeah, Marty's keeping me occupied! Thanks Marty!

Man!!! You mean to tell me I've gotta give me up them thar, wet burritos? And nummy candy bars n such? awwwwwwwwwwww.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#2014536 - 01/14/13 04:37 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Galling, isn't it?
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2014578 - 01/14/13 06:15 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Emmery Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2447
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
Jerry, you need to play some appropriate music for your condition... may I suggest The Rolling Stones.
_________________________
Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region

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#2014584 - 01/14/13 06:30 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
hahaha Emmery and Marty. You know, maybe I'll just set here and get stoned. "Rocking" back and forth in my chair playing rock of ages.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#2014592 - 01/14/13 06:45 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Jer - How can you get stoned when you've been de-stoned?

I think we are about to cross the great granite bridge without a piddle.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2014598 - 01/14/13 07:01 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
I don't know but you guys really rock.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#2014619 - 01/14/13 08:09 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Emmery]
David Jenson Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2144
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: Emmery
I have heard jokingly from native indians that the word "vegan" in their language means "lousy hunter".
I heard that from one of our state's Abnaki Indians, and he wasn't joking. ('Bet he stole the idea from one of the Cannuk Indians knowing him.)

He also said, "Don't call me Native American. We drove those people out and took their land long before the Europeans thought of the idea."
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----

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#2014623 - 01/14/13 08:18 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
I think we need to pass a peace pipe with some wacky-tabakee. Better than smoking veggies. Then we can get rid of all the Europeans.

Oops - that's me!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2015158 - 01/15/13 10:11 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21673
Loc: Oakland
Today I went to see the first of the new toys I get to play with, a new D. The CFX is due in a couple of weeks.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2015693 - 01/16/13 06:23 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Oooooo. I wanna play!!!! I wanna play!!!! Can I play with it toooooo???
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#2015734 - 01/16/13 07:29 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21673
Loc: Oakland
Well, if you show up here, maybe we can go over and play with them together some time. There are a bunch of other pianos going in there, too!
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2015737 - 01/16/13 07:35 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
That sounds like fun. One day I think I may have to do just that!
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#2015781 - 01/16/13 08:54 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
RestorerPhil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 212
Loc: Georgia, USA
Finished up a hammer job on a church's studio upright which included repinning a BUNCH of loose flanges. Call me picky, but I like to not only use tape to travel the flanges, but also to shim them to get the shanks into place, as well. Since I had to repin about thirty-five butt flanges in the mid-keyboard, why not just handle the shanks that way, rather than heat-and-bend. Since the flange is out, all surfaces are available.

I used a single needle on the Abels. Lots of deeeep needling of the shoulders. There will be more needed, but I will give them some time and soften more at the next tuning in a few months.

I'm just glad I could take over that Sunday school room as a shop for the two days. So a half day yesterday and the entire day today to do all that, then hot hide glue the hammers, tune the piano, and some voicing. It was a good day and was ready to get out of there for supper!
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Lavender Piano Services
Established 1977
Tuning, Concert Maintenance,
Rebuilding & Restoration

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#2015897 - 01/17/13 02:46 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7901
Loc: France
It is adviseable to pre voice vertical hammers, so much easier then to finish the job in the piano. As force is necessary the vertical is less easy.

Gummed tape does not move like adhesive (the glue make the tape slip when pressed) I dont know if it is sold , I have dome from Yamaha, some from Renner and some made with a paper schreder)

Usually when new shanks are installed they are adjusted at their bottom so they space neat despite some unevenesses in butts or flanges. Papering under the flange works but because of the wire that straighen the flanges, some modification may be necessary. You are right to look for a perfect hammer position.

Changing heads on verticals is not easy but worth the trouble.

Electrical shank heater huge tool


Edited by Kamin (01/17/13 06:30 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2015936 - 01/17/13 05:28 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: RestorerPhil]
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 2043
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted By: RestorerPhil
Call me picky, but I like to not only use tape to travel the flanges, but also to shim them to get the shanks into place, as well. Since I had to repin about thirty-five butt flanges in the mid-keyboard, why not just handle the shanks that way, rather than heat-and-bend. Since the flange is out, all surfaces are available.


Phil,

I hope this is not too stupid a question. I'm trying to understand what you mean by "shimming to get the shanks into place". Would this not be done by spacing (and slightly rotating if needs be) the flanges? Could you elaborate somewhat? Where would you be shimming, to obtain which effect?
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.

1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

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#2015966 - 01/17/13 07:16 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Mark R.]
RestorerPhil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 212
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Mark R.


Phil,

I hope this is not too stupid a question. I'm trying to understand what you mean by "shimming to get the shanks into place". Would this not be done by spacing (and slightly rotating if needs be) the flanges? Could you elaborate somewhat? Where would you be shimming, to obtain which effect?


Nothing new or dramatic. In fact you are saying the same thing - "spacing". How to do that can vary: Heat bending, paper shimming, or just force it over and hope a tight screw can hold it (not!).

If a shank needs to lean left or right, a piece of paper shim can be glued under one corner of the flange to correct that. It is usually just slipped under a loosened flange with no adhesive. Alternately, the shank could be heated and bent to affect the change. Since I had to disassemble so many butt assemblies in this vertical piano (and only due to that), I decided to permanently attach these shims to the flange as I was doing the repinning work. Old fashioned brown paper packaging tape which has hide type glue on it works well: Just snip into strips, lick and stick. (Joking! No licking with those dirty fingers.)

By sticking the shim to the flange, when I work on a flange the next time for any reason, it doesn't fall away into the action. When that happens, one can often reassemble that part and not realize that the shim is now missing. "Why is this shank out of line now? Why is the travel off now?" I hate it when that happens.
_________________________
Lavender Piano Services
Established 1977
Tuning, Concert Maintenance,
Rebuilding & Restoration

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#2015993 - 01/17/13 08:31 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7901
Loc: France
Sure ! With a good quality gummed tape you can glue it without dismounting the butt.

Spacing is similar on verticals than on grands more or less :

First space the flanges, then space the shanks , then space the hammers.

Then travel the hammers and "burn" the shanks, the 2 operations being closely related. Of course with enough experience one can mix the operations, but I find it faster in the end to proceed by order, once roughly, then more precisely. On verticals papering is not easy so I try to be efficient.

A shank that need to be inclined can have its flange papered under one side, with a thick enough paper as to fight the straightening due to the wire or wood lip on the rail
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2016007 - 01/17/13 09:11 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
David Jenson Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2144
Loc: Maine
What did I do today?

Well, ... I breathed in and out a lot. Just for laughs I divided the breathing count by two and discovered that the intakes roughly equaled the exhalations. The whole process worked so well that I'm gonna' keep it up and recommend it to everyone I meet.

I also noticed it improved my tuning greatly.
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----

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#2016024 - 01/17/13 10:08 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
David sat around all day long reading Jerry's posts and everyone else's too. hehe, Jerry did the same thing....
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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