Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2014708 - 01/15/13 01:21 AM C major arpeggio LH fingering (5321 vs 5421)?
Nicholas Mihaila Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 111
Loc: United States
The first couple paragraphs can really be skipped (just a bit of background).

After reviewing the fingering for different arpeggios in a book I recently bought, I was disappointed to discover that the “official LH fingering” for C major (and other structurally equivalent arpeggios, such as E minor, F major, G major, etc.) was 5421, instead of 5321, which is what I’ve been using. A bit of online research, however, showed me that they may be interchangeable, but I’m not sure.

The problem is that the new fingering causes strain in my hand (whereas the fingering that I’ve been using feels fine). It seems like the official fingering for the “middle line” between, for example, C minor (5421) and D major (5321), just doesn’t work for me. In other words, arpeggios that follow the structure (hand position) of C minor (such as F minor and G minor) work fine with 5421, and arpeggios that follow the structure of of D major (and E major, A major, etc.) work fine with 5321, which is standard, but the fingering for arpeggios that’re structured like C major (E minor, etc.) strain my hand.

In short, I’d like to know if the 5321 fingering for C major arpeggios has any disadvantages (as compared with the standard 5421). Sorry for the long post. I just don’t want to cut any corners.

Thanks guys,
-Nicholas
_________________________
Follow my mixed gaming and musical ambitions through my YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/NTMihaila

Top
(ads P/S)

Petrof Pianos

#2014713 - 01/15/13 01:46 AM Re: C major arpeggio LH fingering (5321 vs 5421)? [Re: Nicholas Mihaila]
Briguy65 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 285
Loc: So California
I just tested what you were talking about --
I bet you lose velocity when using 5 321 on that arpeggio, especially if you're planning on going up more than one octave. If Hanon or whichever exercise book you're using says 5421 you ought to use it and build up strength or muscle memory. I don't think there's any way you can get an injury following the way they want it, unless you have incredibly small hands. My hands are about medium sized and I can barely reach 9ths, if that gives you an idea.

On the other hand, I've been known to ignore fingerings and what not. Generally, if the song is difficult -- I pay for it when I cut corners and I have to relearn the fingerings or timings correctly. It pays to be fairly strict in those regards when you're just starting out I would think.

Top
#2014714 - 01/15/13 01:55 AM Re: C major arpeggio LH fingering (5321 vs 5421)? [Re: Briguy65]
Nicholas Mihaila Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 111
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: Briguy65
I just tested what you were talking about --
I bet you lose velocity when using 5 321 on that arpeggio, especially if you're planning on going up more than one octave. If Hanon or whichever exercise book you're using says 5421 you ought to use it and build up strength or muscle memory. I don't think there's any way you can get an injury following the way they want it, unless you have incredibly small hands. My hands are about medium sized and I can barely reach 9ths, if that gives you an idea.


My hands are pretty big actually. I guess my 4th finger is just weak. It's just a bit annoying because I've used the 5321 fingering in a lot of my repertoire and got very proficient with it (I've actually been playing for a little while now.).

Originally Posted By: Briguy65

On the other hand, I've been known to ignore fingerings and what not. Generally, if the song is difficult -- I pay for it when I cut corners and I have to relearn the fingerings or timings correctly.


I've done that, too. It's never fun. frown
_________________________
Follow my mixed gaming and musical ambitions through my YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/NTMihaila

Top
#2014801 - 01/15/13 07:31 AM Re: C major arpeggio LH fingering (5321 vs 5421)? [Re: Nicholas Mihaila]
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2397
Loc: Virginia, USA
They are interchangeable but you might find 5-4-2-1-4-2 easier for multiple octaves than 5-3-2-1-2-3. Try it and see. Most books I've seen will suggest one and have the other fingering as an alternative.

For the first inversion it's definitely 5-4-2 though.
_________________________
  • Liszt - Liebestrume No. 3, S541
  • Scarlatti - Sonata in D minor, K. 213

Kawai K3

Top
#2015083 - 01/15/13 06:53 PM Re: C major arpeggio LH fingering (5321 vs 5421)? [Re: Nicholas Mihaila]
Aurel Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 17
Loc: Romania
Hi!
I learn that:

C E G (C) is 5 4 2 (1)
E G C (E) is 5 4 2 (1)
but
G C E (G) is 5 3 2 (1)

All the best!
Aurel

Top
#2015095 - 01/15/13 07:35 PM Re: C major arpeggio LH fingering (5321 vs 5421)? [Re: Nicholas Mihaila]
SoundThumb Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 344
Loc: San Diego, CA
Interesting that you should post this Nicholas. My teacher has just started me on this very thing, teaching it as 5 4 2 1. Just like you I have always played it using 5 3 2 1 because it is hard for me to stretch fingers 54 across a third. Now the reason I'm being taught to use 5 4 2 1 is because not doing it that way is starting to effect my ability to play certain pieces. It is going to take me some time to relearn this, but I think the benefits are worth it. In other words, the fact that it is uncomfortable is telling us that there is a limitation in our hand flexibility. Gradually learning to playing this with 5 4 2 1 will help overcome that limitation.

Top
#2015252 - 01/16/13 02:50 AM Re: C major arpeggio LH fingering (5321 vs 5421)? [Re: Nicholas Mihaila]
JohnSprung Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1444
Loc: Reseda, California
Personally, I find 5421 more comfortable.

But why always do it the same way? Instead, do what works best in the context of what you're playing. For you, it may be 5321 most of the time, but in certain pieces you may find 5421 working better.

Consider for instance all the quick back and forth between the Am and Em triads in the bridge of "Katyusha". By using 421 for Am and 542 for Em, I can come closer to doing it fast enough than I could using the same fingering for both.

So, play from xerox copies of the sheet music, write in and scratch out your own fingerings and change them around until you have it optimized. Make new xeroxes and start over when they get too messy.

I have some nerve damage in my right hand, 2 is completely numb, and 1 and 3 have some numbness, so I re-finger things all the time.
_________________________
-- J.S.

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690

Top
#2016486 - 01/18/13 03:05 AM Re: C major arpeggio LH fingering (5321 vs 5421)? [Re: SoundThumb]
Nicholas Mihaila Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 111
Loc: United States
Thanks for all the replies, guys. There was some really good input.

Originally Posted By: SoundThumb
In other words, the fact that it is uncomfortable is telling us that there is a limitation in our hand flexibility. Gradually learning to playing this with 5 4 2 1 will help overcome that limitation.


Yeah, I think you're right. I've been practicing with the 5421 fingering for a couple days now and I can tell that I'm improving.
_________________________
Follow my mixed gaming and musical ambitions through my YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/NTMihaila

Top

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
8 Live Ragtime Piano Players on the Cape!
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Uneven piano keys
by shah
Today at 08:57 AM
Forster vs August Forster
by eazydyonizy
Today at 03:43 AM
Grigory Sokolov releases album
by wimpiano
Today at 03:11 AM
Lindblad Steinway rebuilt pianos
by brahms
Today at 02:54 AM
Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms.
by TwoSnowflakes
Today at 02:13 AM
Who's Online
141 registered (Barry1963, ajames, anotherscott, accordeur, Alexander Borro, 29 invisible), 1602 Guests and 14 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76623 Members
42 Forums
158439 Topics
2326796 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission