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#2052622 - 03/22/13 05:17 PM Re: young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Barb860]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
I agree Barb.

I just sent a message saying that if the child is undecided, that I would prefer to let her have a fresh start with the new teacher. I said I would plan to have next lesson be her last unless the child "has her heart set on being in the recital or continuing lessons" with me.

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#2052634 - 03/22/13 05:40 PM Re: young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Overexposed]
BrainCramp Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 255
Loc: USA
Ann,

You said Sally didn't know the other teacher's name. So she hasn't made much of an impression on Sally.

So I suspect Sally would rather stay with you.

You've been assuming that the parents, or Sally, find you inadequate. But my hunch is that the parents find themselves inadequate.

They sound like helicopter parents who sit down with Sally every evening and help with homework. They don't read music, which means they've never tried to learn an instrument. They know they have no idea what's involved.

They can't help Sally with her piano homework, so they hired Ms. Taiwan.

If Sally wants to continue with you, maybe you can find a way to let the parents "participate" at home. For example, have them make sure Sally practices each piece for 10 minutes, 5 minutes with the metronome, etc. In other words, satisfy their urge to hover over Sally, rotors spinning at top speed.

In short, you're assuming this is all about you. I don't think so. I suspect it's all about the parents.

Poor little Sally.

The "too many books" complaint sounds like a financial problem.

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#2052646 - 03/22/13 06:04 PM Re: young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Barb860]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Oh, well. I'm done with it. I've been on "trial" long enough. The parents and child don't know what they want. And I now know what I don't want. I don't want someone in my studio who is shopping for another teacher.

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#2052652 - 03/22/13 06:10 PM Re: young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Barb860]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2543
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
I've missed you around here with the dancing polka dot quote!
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

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#2052699 - 03/22/13 08:04 PM Re: young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Barb860]
manyhands Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 123
Loc: Md
my favorite phrase when querying about XX is "I was wondering what's the story?" open ended Q yields interesting info
_________________________
many hands many smiles

Big Mama Yama U1

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#2052717 - 03/22/13 08:47 PM Re: young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Overexposed]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1646
Loc: northern California
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
Oh, well. I'm done with it. I've been on "trial" long enough. The parents and child don't know what they want. And I now know what I don't want. I don't want someone in my studio who is shopping for another teacher.


thumb
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#2052738 - 03/22/13 10:10 PM Re: young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: malkin]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Originally Posted By: malkin
I've missed you around here with the dancing polka dot quote!



smile
Thanks. I've decided to post only when I really have something to say. As opposed to chatting for fun daily.

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#2052739 - 03/22/13 10:10 PM Re: young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: manyhands]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Originally Posted By: manyhands
my favorite phrase when querying about XX is "I was wondering what's the story?" open ended Q yields interesting info


Thanks. I may write that one down to have it ready for next time.

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#2052909 - 03/23/13 11:21 AM Re: young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Overexposed]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4801
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
Originally Posted By: malkin
I've missed you around here with the dancing polka dot quote!



smile
Thanks. I've decided to post only when I really have something to say. As opposed to chatting for fun daily.

Ann, if I only posted when I had something to say, I'd never post. smile
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#2052933 - 03/23/13 12:19 PM Re: young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Gary D.]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2543
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky

smile
Thanks. I've decided to post only when I really have something to say. As opposed to chatting for fun daily.

Ann, if I only posted when I had something to say, I'd never post. smile


If everyone did that, there would be no internet forums at all!
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

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#2052936 - 03/23/13 12:27 PM Re: young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: malkin]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4801
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: malkin
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky

smile
Thanks. I've decided to post only when I really have something to say. As opposed to chatting for fun daily.

Ann, if I only posted when I had something to say, I'd never post. smile


If everyone did that, there would be no internet forums at all!

True. smile
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#2053163 - 03/23/13 08:48 PM Re: young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Gary D.]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1646
Loc: northern California
Ann, I hope you will let us know what happens in your situation.

wondering.....if any of you out there were ever in the role as "2nd teacher", please give your perspective. for a new thread maybe.
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#2053552 - 03/24/13 03:57 PM Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Barb860]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Hi, Ann,

I have been following the evolution of this thread from my non-teacher perspective, and hoping you would resolve the issue exactly as you have. From our knowledge of you, you are a superb, professional teacher.

AZN, able to stand back from the situation (and probably drawing upon his own significant experience), hit this nail SMACK on the proverbial head = ACT DECISIVELY, and ACT NOW!

It was the PROFESSIONAL thing to do, and much better to be the "sender" of the message of termination, than the "receiver". Brava!

Ed
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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#2053623 - 03/24/13 06:21 PM Re: Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Barb860]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Thanks Ed.

I have had no response from the parent since my message a couple of days ago suggesting this next lesson be the last. I suppose the parents are surprised that I wasn't willing to participate in the popularity contest they had set up with the child as judge.

I hate conflict and would like all my students and parents to be happy with me. And this family is friends with several of my other students/families. I finally stopped worrying about it after analyzing it repeatedly. Sort of stopped. I'll be relieved when the Wednesday evening lesson is over. I'll do my best to be positive and wish them well with the new teacher.

What I think has happened is that the child is not practicing and is finding piano difficult. Likely complained to parents. And they decided to try someone new instead of addressing any issues with me.

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#2053748 - 03/24/13 11:53 PM Re: Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Overexposed]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
. . . the child is not practicing and is finding piano difficult.

From what I read here, there is a lot of that going around . . . [Cause]>>{Effect}

If nothing else, the friends of this student and her parents will get a clear message: Don't even try to play games with Ann in Kentucky!

_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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#2053821 - 03/25/13 06:30 AM Re: Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Barb860]
Candywoman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 842
I know you had to act decisively Ann because I was once in this position. I had taught a girl for nine years and she was four months away from doing a significant piano exam. The girl's drama teacher wanted to teach her piano as well. So she proceeded to give different pedalings and fingerings. In addition, the time spent with the other teacher reduced my student's practice time by one day. Furthermore, my heart was deeply hurt. The reasons I kept going were I had committed to teaching the whole session til June, as I do for all my pupils, and I needed the money. But both of these were NOT good reasons. I should have immediately dropped her because:
once the parent changed the rules, my commitment became null and void; and no amount of money is worth my feeling of self-respect.

In reading your posts, Ann, I am troubled that you put yourself through so much second-guessing. I hope you desist from this in the future. It is not good for your mental health.

Plus, I don't think I'd even teach Sally on Wednesday. Just pay them out.


Edited by Candywoman (03/25/13 06:35 AM)

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#2053853 - 03/25/13 08:16 AM Re: Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: LoPresti]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Originally Posted By: LoPresti


If nothing else, the friends of this student and her parents will get a clear message: Don't even try to play games with Ann in Kentucky!



smile

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#2053859 - 03/25/13 08:21 AM Re: Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Barb860]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Thanks for posting your thoughts Candywoman. You are right. I put myself through way too much second guessing. I've been treating a continuous headache for a full two days and nights. (Very mild this morning and I think this will be the last of it.)

Next time, I won't be so surprised. I'll just know that if a parent has hired another teacher, they have ended their business with me. And say goodbye. Hopefully I will be able to do a simple evaluation of what has transpired, and get over it more easily.

I appreciate the advice I've received here. This really helped me to face the problem instead of letting it drag on.

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#2053870 - 03/25/13 08:44 AM Re: Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Overexposed]
BrainCramp Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 255
Loc: USA
Ann,

Poor little Sally. It sounds like her parents have left her with the task of facing you and bringing this to a resolution on Wednesday.

If your email was successful in "firing" them, Sally may feel she was "fired" too.

On the other hand, if they cluelessly hired a supplemental home tutor without realizing the trouble it would cause, Sally may really want to continue with you. She may be pretty upset about all this.

On the third hand, if Sally wasn't happy with her lessons with you, she won't be too relieved because now she has to start over with Ms. Taiwan.

I hope for Sally's sake the parents reach out to you before she arrives on your doorstep.

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#2053887 - 03/25/13 09:30 AM Re: Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Overexposed]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11922
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
Thanks for posting your thoughts Candywoman. You are right. I put myself through way too much second guessing. I've been treating a continuous headache for a full two days and nights. (Very mild this morning and I think this will be the last of it.)

Next time, I won't be so surprised. I'll just know that if a parent has hired another teacher, they have ended their business with me. And say goodbye. Hopefully I will be able to do a simple evaluation of what has transpired, and get over it more easily.

I appreciate the advice I've received here. This really helped me to face the problem instead of letting it drag on.


I would not be surprised if the student doesn't show for the lesson on Wednesday.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2053890 - 03/25/13 09:39 AM Re: Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Barb860]
ShiroKuro Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3483
Loc: not in Japan anymore
Wow, not to take away from the strain this causes the piano teacher, but I can't believe the parents here (who suggested they'd have Sally choose). I don't know how old Sally is, but it makes me think of two divorcing parents making the child choose which parent she likes better! We now know that is not healthy for the child, I don't think it is all that different for other adults the child has relationships with.

The parents might be able to choose based on pianistic things, but a child won't, and a child will likely be very aware of not wanting to hurt either teacher's feelings, even as the child is unable to articulate it that way. the parents will ask "which teacher do you want to keep taking lessons with?" but the child will hear "which teacher do you like better?" That's a really horrible thing to do to a child.

Ann and Barb, I'm really sorry you've have to deal with these issues! And I hope the parents learn not to do this to their children in the future.
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#2053895 - 03/25/13 09:56 AM Re: Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: ShiroKuro]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11922
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: ShiroKuro
Wow, not to take away from the strain this causes the piano teacher, but I can't believe the parents here (who suggested they'd have Sally choose). I don't know how old Sally is, but it makes me think of two divorcing parents making the child choose which parent she likes better! We now know that is not healthy for the child, I don't think it is all that different for other adults the child has relationships with.

The parents might be able to choose based on pianistic things, but a child won't, and a child will likely be very aware of not wanting to hurt either teacher's feelings, even as the child is unable to articulate it that way. the parents will ask "which teacher do you want to keep taking lessons with?" but the child will hear "which teacher do you like better?" That's a really horrible thing to do to a child.

Ann and Barb, I'm really sorry you've have to deal with these issues! And I hope the parents learn not to do this to their children in the future.


This whole thing reeks. The poor child has had to deal with most likely conflicting information from both teachers, or at the very least, one teacher thinking this thing is more important whereas the other teacher finds another issue to be of more importance. So what does the child focus on when practicing? She is split between the two and therefore not able to make headway in either issue because she can't devote her time on just one. Not to mention repertoire.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2053934 - 03/25/13 11:00 AM Re: Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Barb860]
Ben Crosland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 420
Loc: Worcester, UK
Whenever this situation rears its ugly head, I use the metaphor: "Trying to sail in two boats at once will only get you a wet backside!"
_________________________
Teacher, Composer, Sound Designer

Cool Beans!

Easy Christmas Jazz

YouTube channel




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#2053974 - 03/25/13 12:04 PM Re: Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Barb860]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
I'm feeling so much better...my lighthearted spirit has returned and "Aint gonna work on Maggie's Farm no more" keeps going through my mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyZS0aCIYIk

It was empowering to say "No" to this situation instead of playing the role of pawn and waiting to see where the 3rd grader would place me.

I doubt kiddo will show up. But if she does, I will carry on in the usual friendly, supportive way. And wish her well.


Edited by Ann in Kentucky (03/25/13 01:23 PM)

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#2054229 - 03/25/13 08:30 PM Re: Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Overexposed]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1646
Loc: northern California
Love that Bob Dylan youtube laugh
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#2054500 - 03/26/13 10:58 AM Re: Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Barb860]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Barb, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Shows that my inner DJ is back to work (cousin of inner child).

So great not to have this situation anymore:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

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#2054531 - 03/26/13 12:02 PM Re: Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Overexposed]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1646
Loc: northern California
HAHAHA!!!! Gotta love these cats!!!!
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#2054625 - 03/26/13 04:15 PM Re: Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Barb860]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Originally Posted By: Barb860
HAHAHA!!!! Gotta love these cats!!!!


laugh

What good are these crappy situations if we can't have a laugh about them later?

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#2055285 - 03/27/13 07:19 PM Re: Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Ben Crosland]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Originally Posted By: Ben Crosland
Whenever this situation rears its ugly head, I use the metaphor: "Trying to sail in two boats at once will only get you a wet backside!"


This quote came in handy today.

As it turned out the child and her mother came to lesson. Long story short is it was a good ending. Parent said she had not meant to offend me. They had thought they'd get extra help at home and then the new teacher said "I can more than that" and began taking the lead. The parent said "we all like you" etc.

When they asked to continue with two teachers I used Ben's explanation. And the child smiled at the part about ending up with a wet backside.

Anyway we discussed the child's progress and where trouble spots are. I gently declined keeping the student saying I don't want to compete with another teacher...and that it would be nice to have the new teacher's perspective.

Parent asked if they could return in the future. I let her know that she is welcome back if I have an opening as long as she has ended lessons with another teacher.

This was all a bit stressful, even though friendly. I'm grateful for a peaceful ending, and I can head into spring break (next week) with this cleared up.

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#2055291 - 03/27/13 07:24 PM Re: Young students with 2 teachers at the same time [Re: Overexposed]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1646
Loc: northern California
Good job, Ann!!!!!

Sounds like things went very well.
Good for you!

Enjoy your spring break!

Ben's quote could be the motto for this situation grin
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Piano Teacher

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