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#2015508 - 01/16/13 01:55 PM How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165?
jian1zh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/13
Posts: 23
new to this forum, and look forward to buying myself a grand piano.

Brand new Baldwin bp165, serial number dg37844, seller says it's brand new and asks for $9500(CAD), what do you guys think? I liked it's sound, though not as good as yamaha's, touching is pretty well, although again, not as good as yamaha.

Btw, shall I get this Baldwin, or a simillar ritmuller (seen people praise it on this forum)?

Kawai seems to be selling some cool piano with carbon fibre stuff, how do you guys rate carbon-fibre Kawai? I am a technical person and like this new space-age material. If I can stretch my budget a little bit more, I would like to have Kawai gm30.

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#2015530 - 01/16/13 02:48 PM Re: How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165? [Re: jian1zh]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7426
Loc: Rochester MN
Hi - Welcome to Piano World!

There seems to be some descrepencies in model numbers. Are you referring to a Baldwin BD165? Is this a purchase from a dealer or private seller? Baldwin is in a state of flux, however, and the products are not held in the same esteem as the vintage instruments. I would suggest that you look at other brands.

With the Kawai, I think you mean the GE-30. It is a good piano and does have the Millenium (composite) action. It is more expensive than the Baldwin, however. The Kawais have superior actions and quite trouble free.

The best thing you can do is play as many pianos as you can, in all price ranges. That way you can find what is best for you within your budget. May I suggest that you check out the "A&D Piano Buyer" at the link found on the left side of this page. The online version is free to use, or it can be ordered in print copy. It is the "bible" for those in search of a piano.

Good Luck with your search.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2015558 - 01/16/13 03:23 PM Re: How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
jian1zh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/13
Posts: 23
thanks for your reply.

I think it's a BD165, didn't have time to find out the model number, only serial. It's from a piano store who sells used piano and some brand new piano. Is $9500 a good price ? I've played it, it was actually better than the Kawai gm-10k I've tried on.

Ge-30 is a little bit out of my price range, my question is how much better is it's carbon-fibre action in comparison with woods?

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#2015828 - 01/16/13 10:50 PM Re: How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165? [Re: jian1zh]
musicpassion Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 973
Loc: California, USA
It sounds to me like you want a Yamaha. I would suggest don't get the Baldwin, but go for a Yamaha.

Re the Ritmuller... don't buy a piano because someone else likes it. Buy a piano you like. And you might like the Rimuller... certainly worth trying.
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#2015832 - 01/16/13 10:55 PM Re: How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165? [Re: jian1zh]
musicpassion Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 973
Loc: California, USA
Originally Posted By: jian1zh
Kawai seems to be selling some cool piano with carbon fibre stuff, how do you guys rate carbon-fibre Kawai? I am a technical person and like this new space-age material. If I can stretch my budget a little bit more, I would like to have Kawai gm30.


I enjoy Kawai - and I own one. Mine is older than the carbon fiber, and an upright. However I have played the Millenium Falcon, I mean the Millenium III action at the dealership. I thinks it's a quality action, but I didn't like it. I couldn't put my finger on why.
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#2015924 - 01/17/13 04:28 AM Re: How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165? [Re: musicpassion]
jian1zh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/13
Posts: 23
yamaha is totally out of my price range, despite I like its action.

The Baldwin is not too bad IMHO, it's just a matter of price...if it's a good price, I will take it.

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#2016467 - 01/18/13 02:14 AM Re: How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165? [Re: jian1zh]
musicpassion Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 973
Loc: California, USA
Ok. I didn't look up the exchange rate.

However, I'm surprised Yamaha and Baldwin prices are that far apart.


Edited by musicpassion (01/18/13 02:15 AM)
Edit Reason: accuracy
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#2016484 - 01/18/13 03:03 AM Re: How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165? [Re: musicpassion]
jian1zh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/13
Posts: 23
is baldwin gp165 $9500(CAD) a good deal?

I like Yamaha's action, not sure if it's just me... the action seems to be better than those Steinways I've played on, especially the new c series.

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#2016488 - 01/18/13 03:09 AM Re: How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165? [Re: jian1zh]
musicpassion Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 973
Loc: California, USA
It's not just you. Many people like Yamaha action, myself included.

About the price... sorry, but I don't know.
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#2017162 - 01/19/13 10:08 AM Re: How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165? [Re: jian1zh]
Steven Y. A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
I think richter also likes Yamaha action, and Horowitz's Steinway has been retrofit with Yamaha action
Haven't heard the Baldwin model but I tried an old Baldwin upright it sounds great. Some sonic character as their concert grand.
U may want to check out the Bolet ballade no.3 (chopin) recording on YouTube.
It's recorded with a Baldwin. To my ears it sounds better than his Steinway recording.

Where do you live? I live in Toronto I'm also on a piano hunt. If I see something interesting I'll let u know.

Steven
_________________________
PLEYEL P124

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#2017219 - 01/19/13 11:56 AM Re: How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165? [Re: jian1zh]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7426
Loc: Rochester MN
Tell us more about the action in one of Horowitz's Steinways. This was done during his lifetime? Which of his pianos?
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2017815 - 01/20/13 12:45 PM Re: How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165? [Re: jian1zh]
Steven Y. A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
I just played a Baldwin gp165, year 2013 Made in China. Very good upper registers. Dealer asks for $14000 CAD so i guess $9500 is a very good deal. Larry Fine's book suggest a maximum price of $11000. Consider pianos are more expensive in Canada so i would say $9500 is a very good price.

I can not confirm the source of Horowitz's piano. It may be just a rumor.
but here is a link for discussion on his piano:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1546518/2.html


Edited by Steven Y. A. (01/20/13 12:53 PM)
_________________________
PLEYEL P124

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#2017890 - 01/20/13 03:10 PM Re: How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165? [Re: jian1zh]
HalfStep Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/25/11
Posts: 202
Loc: Boston, MA
I just bought a new BP 152 (delivery tomorrow!) I took lots of advice from PW. The most important, go with the sound and feel of a piano. To that end, I looked at a Kawai GE-30 (I think that's the model) and the Baldwin BP 152. I negotiated down 10% and had a trade up value for about 1700. In the end, the bottom line payment was $9365.00. I am ecstatic!

Good luck!

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#2018743 - 01/22/13 01:54 AM Re: How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165? [Re: jian1zh]
jian1zh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/13
Posts: 23
I think I've changed my mind.... The more I play Yamaha the more I love its touch, but heck, in Canada (toronto) Yamaha is definitely over priced.

I can't decide if I should bite my teeth go for a yamaha or settle for that Baldwin.

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#2018750 - 01/22/13 02:27 AM Re: How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165? [Re: Steven Y. A.]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3336
Originally Posted By: Steven Y. A.
I think richter also likes Yamaha action


Richter was a Steinway Artist for a long time before he defected (to Yamaha), as several artists did, due to well-documented quality issues at Steinway & Sons during the 1960s-1980s.

Originally Posted By: Steven Y. A.
and Horowitz's Steinway has been retrofit with Yamaha action


This is absolute nonsense. For starters, Horowitz was a dyed-in-the-wool Steinway loyalist. Secondly, even if it were possible to retrofit Yamaha parts into a Steinway (which isn't the case), Steinway owns the piano; why on earth would they put one of their competitor's parts in it?! Especially since the company militantly opposes the use of non-Steinway replacement parts in used/rebuilt Steinways.



Originally Posted By: Steven Y. A.
Haven't heard the Baldwin model but I tried an old Baldwin upright it sounds great. Some sonic character as their concert grand.
U may want to check out the Bolet ballade no.3 (chopin) recording on YouTube. It's recorded with a Baldwin. To my ears it sounds better than his Steinway recording.


You cannot compare a Bolet recording with Baldwin's Chinese-built instruments. He used an American-built Baldwin Artist Grand, which is a completely different design than the Chinese instruments.

_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2018755 - 01/22/13 02:37 AM Re: How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165? [Re: jian1zh]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3336
The Baldwin Bp 165 is built in China. I'm pretty familiar with these instruments and they tend to need quite a bit of work before they can be considered good instruments, and the extent of this work is not something that would be done by a dealer. There are circumstances where this probably wouldn't matter a whole lot, but you yourself seem to prefer the Yamaha. If I were in your situation, I'd go with my gut.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2026657 - 02/04/13 02:46 AM Re: How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165? [Re: jian1zh]
Schubertslieder Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/13
Posts: 373
Loc: Michigan, USA
I am a Baldwin fan. I appreciate the high quality sound the piano produces. Most Baldwin pianos I played in colleges were big grand pianos made in US. I have not played the piano you mentioned. I believe the model you are referring to, bp 165, is not made in US but made in China. However, if you truly like the sound, then that piano is for you, IMO. If you like the piano and the price, you should consider it. I am a believer in doing what feels right when it comes to pianos.
_________________________
Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan
Debussy--various pieces
Grieg--various pieces

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#2026777 - 02/04/13 09:15 AM Re: How much can you negotiate for Baldwin bp165? [Re: beethoven986]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10478
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
The Baldwin Bp 165 is built in China. I'm pretty familiar with these instruments and they tend to need quite a bit of work before they can be considered good instruments, and the extent of this work is not something that would be done by a dealer. There are circumstances where this probably wouldn't matter a whole lot, but you yourself seem to prefer the Yamaha. If I were in your situation, I'd go with my gut.


Why would you say the the work is not something that would be done by a dealer? We have 4 RPTs that do work for us.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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