Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#2015518 - 01/16/13 02:27 PM Flu shot or not?
chasingrainbows Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1019
Loc: NJ
Have you received the flu shot, and if not, why not? I'm concerned because I live in an area that is one of the regions hit hard by the flu virus. Also, given the nature of our careers, we are at higher risk for getting the flu. Unfortunately, many times I end up teaching children who are sick or have a family member home with the flu.

Top
(ad) My Music Staff
Check out the new way to manage your music studio
#2015541 - 01/16/13 03:03 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
MaggieGirl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 470
My pediatrician says there are certain vax for what he calls economic diseases. Chicken Pox and the flu namely. If you can afford to miss work or have a child out of school then they are not going to cause economic hardship, so it's a vax of convenience.

If there is little or no health insurance, you don't get paid, etc, get the shots. smile

I am lucky though - if I am sick, I still get paid.


Edited by MaggieGirl (01/16/13 03:04 PM)

Top
#2015544 - 01/16/13 03:07 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
The Monkeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 422
Loc: Vancouver BC
Depends on your body. Someone takes the flu shot just fine without much side effects.

But the flu shot gave me *all* the flu symptoms that lasted almost 10 days. I wasn't infectious, but the immune system fought it like real thing and it felt like a real thing.

For me it is a dilemma:
*Take the risk, either get lucky and don't get sick at all or get really sick, and the probably together with the whole family.
*Take the shot and get moderately sick.

Of course my personal experience has no scientific value.
You might be the ones that don't get much side effects.

Good luck!

Top
#2015569 - 01/16/13 03:33 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1002
Loc: Irvine, CA
Yes, I got mine two days ago.
We work with children, it is important to protect ourselves, our family and also the children that we work with.
_________________________
http://ezpiano.org
Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Watch the introduction video on YouTube
@ http://bit.ly/Ready123

Top
#2015637 - 01/16/13 05:05 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
I know I'll eat my words, but I believe in getting sick.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

Top
#2015714 - 01/16/13 07:00 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: ten left thumbs]
pianomouse Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/12
Posts: 88
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
I know I'll eat my words, but I believe in getting sick.

Before I started teaching so much, I almost never was sick. Then, I believed in my good immune system - which terribly failed. I ended up catching the flu from my students (mostly 15- to 20-year-olds who go to school sick, because they don't want to miss lessons) several time during the flu season.
Now, I usually have a flu shot in late November and it helps so much. This way, I only have to be concerned about not catching colds, which is so much easier.
_________________________
The piano keys are black and white,
But they sound like a million colours in your mind.
(Katie Melua)

Top
#2015754 - 01/16/13 08:04 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4373
Loc: Jersey Shore
Flu shot...most people don't get adverse reactions, unless you are allergic to eggs.

As a health care person, this is one of the worst seasons I have ever seen.

WASH YOUR HANDs, and don't touch your face!

Top
#2015773 - 01/16/13 08:38 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3155
Loc: Virginia, USA
I've been getting the flu shot for years. Never had a reaction, and have avoided the flu as well.

I'm not only protecting myself, but everybody I might have spread the flu to if I'd caught it and passed it on.

This year it was a bit different. The needle is much thinner, I didn't feel the usual stick. It did hurt a bit more the next day though.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2015782 - 01/16/13 08:58 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10349
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
I get the flu shot every year. I'm in a service industry that puts me in front of lots of people. So is my wife. The flu is very debilitating in so many ways.

I have only had the flu once during that time period, and I wouldn't have known that the "cold" I had actually was the flu absent a test. The symptoms were really weakened. Once I knew I had the flu I added an antiviral to the mix and it went away quickly. At this point, I would never NOT get the shot. Love that double negative.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

Top
#2015787 - 01/16/13 09:04 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: TimR]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5901
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: TimR
I'm not only protecting myself, but everybody I might have spread the flu to if I'd caught it and passed it on.
thumb Yes, and some of those people might be a whole lot more vulnerable to its effects than you. I think many people forget this aspect of it.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#2015788 - 01/16/13 09:05 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4373
Loc: Jersey Shore
And less people forget what can happen...

The 1918 flu pandemic (January 1918 – December 1920)[1] was an unusually deadly influenza pandemic which infected 500 million[2] people across the world, including remote Pacific islands and the arctic, and killed 20 to 50 million of them—1 to 3 percent of the world's population[

Top
#2015798 - 01/16/13 09:26 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Mark...]
piano joy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 807
Loc: Florida
It should be a no-brainer, get the shot (assuming no egg allergy, as previously mentioned and no concurrent moderate/severe illness).
There is no guarantee you won't still get the flu, but it lessens the risk of both acquiring and severity thereof.

I personally favor the injection as it is a "dead" virus (layman's terminology) whereas the nasal formulation is a live virus.
You CANNOT get influenza from the injection, HOWEVER...it is possible (yes, this happens!) you were already exposed to either influenza peri-shot time or another similar virus and, hence, the birth of " I got the flu from the flu vaccine " mania.

I don't know SQUAT about teaching piano, but "this" is what I do in order to make enough money to PAY for a piano teacher (not to mention food and shelter, the other necessities of life) smile

As an aside, it's not too late to get it now and remember, for next year: Oct/Nov is ideal.
_________________________
I don't care too much for money. For money can't buy me love.
-the Beatles




Top
#2015804 - 01/16/13 09:37 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10349
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
I always shoot for November. I have done it in December on occasion, when inertia and other procrastination has gripped me.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

Top
#2015812 - 01/16/13 10:02 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Piano*Dad]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2412
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Flu shot for me every year, as soon as it becomes available.

I work with kids. Lots of kids who drool, spit, bite, cough, sneeze, mouth objects and furniture...you get the idea and if you worked there, you'd get a flu shot too!
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

Top
#2015831 - 01/16/13 10:54 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: malkin]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1644
Loc: northern California
I got a flu shot last week, hoping it wasn't too late. Didn't hurt till the next day and then my arm was VERY SORE, all the way down to the fingers. Out here in CA we haven't had the big outbreak yet but it's coming. Here's to good health, everyone!
_________________________
Piano Teacher

Top
#2016080 - 01/17/13 11:35 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: ezpiano.org]
chasingrainbows Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1019
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
Yes, I got mine two days ago.
We work with children, it is important to protect ourselves, our family and also the children that we work with.


ezpiano, I have been asking all my students and parents if they got the flu shot or plan to get it, and almost all said no. If I get the flu shot, it may protect me, but there is only a 62% chance that it prevent the flu, given all the varying strains out there. I am extremely sensitive to medications and suffered debilitating vertigo for a year from taking a particular med one year.

Top
#2016084 - 01/17/13 11:41 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Mark...]
chasingrainbows Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1019
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Mark...
Flu shot...most people don't get adverse reactions, unless you are allergic to eggs.

As a health care person, this is one of the worst seasons I have ever seen.

WASH YOUR HANDs, and don't touch your face!


Washing my hands and keeping them away from my face is extremely important, as you said. I sanitize the piano, keep sanitizer and tissues at the piano, but somehow the little ones manage to forget and use fingers instead of tissues, sneeze, cough. I am sitting inches from them, and by the end of a long day, I feel like I should have worn a hazmat suit. smile

Top
#2016099 - 01/17/13 12:14 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1263
Loc: California
I've never had a flu shot. During the winter I stock up on Bio-Immunozyme Forte by Biotics and I haven't even had a cold this season. I work with toddlers as well as older kids so I'm extra careful about spreading germs, handwashing, antibacterial wipes, etc...
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

Top
#2016115 - 01/17/13 12:41 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Here's an article that may be of interest.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/11/06/flu-vaccine-efficacy.aspx

This is pointing out that there are risks in taking a vaccine. And you'll notice that when you go for a flu shot, you will be required to sign a form that states you have been informed that there is a small risk of serious side effects or even death.

I would not agree that the decision is a "no brainer". I think careful consideration is in order.


Edited by Ann in Kentucky (01/17/13 12:52 PM)
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2016181 - 01/17/13 02:41 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Candywoman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 832
I've never had a flu shot. I've gotten the flu only once that I remember in my adult life. So for me, I don't worry about it. Other things are more important: eating a balanced, high quality supper at the same time every evening makes a big difference. I notice a lot of people eat very poorly, so I'm not surprised they get sick a lot. They also rush around too much.

Send me a pm if you want details on nutrition and lifestyle improvement.

If handwashing was "THE" prevention, how do you explain the people who wash their hands regularly getting sick? I've never understood that.

Top
#2016219 - 01/17/13 04:05 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3155
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
Here's an article that may be of interest.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/11/06/flu-vaccine-efficacy.aspx

This is pointing out that there are risks in taking a vaccine. And you'll notice that when you go for a flu shot, you will be required to sign a form that states you have been informed that there is a small risk of serious side effects or even death.

I would not agree that the decision is a "no brainer". I think careful consideration is in order.


That article is from a highly biased antivaccination, antiscience, anti-modern medicine organization. It is in the business of selling supplements (and has been warned repeatedly by the FDA for making false claims).

It is true that there are some risks to any medical procedure. Immunization is one where the benefits seem to outweigh the risks by a huge margin.

It is also true that if everybody else gets immunized, you will benefit without having to share in the risks. Seems a bit on the selfish side to me, but that one's up to your conscience. .
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2016233 - 01/17/13 04:26 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1263
Loc: California
Mmm... and 'modern' medicine, pro-vaccination articles/stats aren't biased either....

The more informed we can become the better. I don't believe everything that the CDC and AMA puts out.
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

Top
#2016276 - 01/17/13 06:30 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: TimR]
AZNpiano Online   sleepy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5418
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: TimR
It is also true that if everybody else gets immunized, you will benefit without having to share in the risks. Seems a bit on the selfish side to me, but that one's up to your conscience.

Wow, that's not a good thing to write.

I prefer to boost my immune system with healthy diet and sanitary habits. A little bit of common sense goes a long way.

It's rather funny that, in years past, whenever I got the flu shot, I got the flu regardless.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

Top
#2016281 - 01/17/13 06:41 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4414
Loc: San Jose, CA
Every year, chasingrainbows. Thanks for raising the subject, and I wish you the best of health this year.

I've had the flu. Didn't like it. The shot helps keep it away, or lessen its intensity if you do get it.

It is actually a more dangerous disease than many realize--- even in an ordinary year, there are thousands of deaths. In a pandemic year with a hemorrhagic flu similar to 1914-18, hospitals would be overwhelmed and it would be impossible even to provide respirators to all who required them.

It's really so much better to do everything you can not to get it, not to spread it, and to lessen its impact if you do contract it.

http://www.cdc.gov/features/fluactivity/

"...Influenza is a serious disease that can lead to hospitalization and sometimes even death. Every flu season is different, and influenza infection can affect people differently. CDC estimates that from the 1976-1977 flu season to the 2006-2007 season, flu-associated deaths each season ranged from a low of about 3,000 people to a high of about 49,000 people..."

As I was leaving the pharmacy a few days ago, a young lady was just entering the door of the hospital, coughing like a fire engine. She didn't so much as bother to cover her mouth (that was a pretty picture), let alone using a handkerchief. Get a clue, people!

http://www.firstworldwar.com/atoz/influenza.htm

"...In particular around 450,000 civilian deaths were incurred in the prosperous United States, the majority among otherwise healthy people under the age of 40. In Britain some 228,000 civilian casualties died; 400,000 in Germany. Hardest hit however was India with a reported 16 million casualties alone..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flu

"...Typically, influenza is transmitted through the air by coughs or sneezes, creating aerosols containing the virus. Influenza can also be transmitted by direct contact with bird droppings or nasal secretions, or through contact with contaminated surfaces. Airborne aerosols have been thought to cause most infections, although which means of transmission is most important is not absolutely clear.[8] Influenza viruses can be inactivated by sunlight, disinfectants and detergents.[9][10] As the virus can be inactivated by soap, frequent hand washing reduces the risk of infection.[11]

"Influenza spreads around the world in seasonal epidemics, resulting in about three to five million yearly cases of severe illness and about 250,000 to 500,000 yearly deaths,[12] rising to millions in some pandemic years. In the 20th century three influenza pandemics occurred, each caused by the appearance of a new strain of the virus in humans, and killed tens of millions of people..."

"...The most famous and lethal outbreak was the 1918 flu pandemic... which lasted from 1918 to 1919. It is not known exactly how many it killed, but estimates range from 50 to 100 million people. This pandemic has been described as "the greatest medical holocaust in history" and may have killed as many people as the Black Death..."
_________________________
Clef


Top
#2016318 - 01/17/13 08:11 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
This has been quite effective for me. Only had flu once in 50 years.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2016322 - 01/17/13 08:16 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2412
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Check out "Why don't we do it in our sleeves?" to see state of the art cough and sneeze catching.

http://www.coughsafe.com/watch-videos.html
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

Top
#2016345 - 01/17/13 09:11 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: dumdumdiddle]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3155
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: dumdumdiddle
Mmm... and 'modern' medicine, pro-vaccination articles/stats aren't biased either....

The more informed we can become the better. I don't believe everything that the CDC and AMA puts out.


Superstition vs science.

The choice is yours.

I've made mine.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2016351 - 01/17/13 09:21 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
chasingrainbows Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1019
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
This has been quite effective for me. Only had flu once in 50 years.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Ann, thanks for bringing a little levity to a serious topic. My grandmom lived a ripe old age on a shot of brandy each evening and homemade chicken soup.

Top
#2016354 - 01/17/13 09:24 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
chasingrainbows Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1019
Loc: NJ
I am digesting all of the facts/opinions here, and am still afraid. I did have one horrible year when I started teaching in school, where I was sick every other month, and ended the year with a two week bout of H1N1. After that, I've seemed to build up an immunity. HOwever, the fear of getting that sick again is always in the back of my mind. Coincidentally, the boost in my immune system also happened when I started acupuncture treatments. Been getting them twice a month ever since the dreaded H1N1.

Top
#2016865 - 01/18/13 07:17 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4414
Loc: San Jose, CA
Matter of fact, Ann, CDC says that alcohol does deactivate the flu virus. But I have a feeling you're not washing your hands with perfectly good whiskey. Anyway, they had whiskey in 1914--- plenty of it, too--- so I don't know why so many people died from flu that year.

Acupuncturist told me that it can be useful for improving immune response, though I was not seeing him for that. Unfortunately, it did not do much for my back pain... but it is not superstition; the science is backing it up. The giant HMO Kaiser actually employs acupuncturists, and they're pretty much straight down the middle with Standard of Care. If it helps you, chasingrainbows, it certainly beats getting sick.

NPR's 'Science Friday' had a whole show on flu today. Speaking of science, the objects from which it was most readily possible to culture flu virus, by swabbing them, was the category Kid's Toys. They did not mention swabbing the keys of teachers' pianos, but...
_________________________
Clef


Top
#2018223 - 01/21/13 08:32 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
woodog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 376
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
I get a flu shot every year. I love myself. I also love the people around me.

Not getting a flu shot would be most disrespectful of the people around me.

Forrest
_________________________
Graham Fitch's Piano Pedagogy Site
(A WORTHY RESOURCE!)

--------------------
current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque
Beethoven Op. 78
Bach WTC 1, C# Major (#3)

Top
#2018435 - 01/21/13 01:58 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Piano*Dad]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
I always shoot for November. I have done it in December on occasion, when inertia and other procrastination has gripped me.


Am I the first to get this? If intentional, good one!
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

Top
#2018540 - 01/21/13 06:02 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
KurtZ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 851
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
Yearly flu shots have been very effective for me in reducing frequency and severity of influenza. Before I started getting the shots I was getting hit hard most years and each year I seemed to get it worse than before. After the year I was almost hospitalized, my doctor suggested the shots even though at that time they were only being recommended for the elderly.
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

Top
#2018620 - 01/21/13 08:53 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: rocket88]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3504
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
I always shoot for November. I have done it in December on occasion, when inertia and other procrastination has gripped me.


Am I the first to get this? If intentional, good one!


Yeah, I got it!

To those who are nervous about the flu shot - get over it! Have the injection! The side effects of the flu shot are so much less than a bout of the flu. The flu can be deadly to you and those around you. Nobody has ever got the flu from the vaccine - it's an incomplete, dead virus. A few people have already had the real flu building in their system when they had the injection and then blamed the vaccine. This is just coincidence. I haven't had the flu in almost 20 years because of the flu vaccine - and I'm around sick people a lot and I'm diabetic so I have a higher susceptibility to catching the flu. It works, trust me.

The chances of getting the flu after having the vaccine are very low. Having the vaccine doesn't weaken your immune system. It actually stimulates it - the same way catching the real virus does, except without all the risk. I can't imagine teaching dozens of students and not having the flu vaccine - strong immune system or not. If you are lucky enough to have a good immune system, save it for everything else it will have to fight. Sooner or later everybody comes down with the flu, and you won't know when your immune system isn't as strong as it used to be. It's not worth the risk when you know how bad the flu can be and the shot is so simple. Don't be a hero. Get it for your own sake and for those around you.

Top
#2018935 - 01/22/13 10:51 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
I worked for 2 decades in public health. Flu shots were recommended for those at risk such as elderly, those with certain chronic disease, and health care workers. I found that recommendation to be reasonable. Those who are smokers or who live with a smoker are never mentioned. But these people will have a more difficult time recovering from a respiratory illness so may also want to consider getting a flu shot.

Now I see that flu shots are being recommended for everyone.

I see no science demonstrating increased effectiveness or lessened risk. IMO we are seeing effective marketing.

Risk may be as low as one in a million chance of serious side effect. Sounds like a small risk. But when 100 million doses are given each year, you may have 100 people with serious problems from it. If they were otherwise healthy adults, it was not a risk they needed to take IMO.


Edited by Ann in Kentucky (01/22/13 11:01 AM)
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2018948 - 01/22/13 11:18 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
chasingrainbows Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1019
Loc: NJ
Ann, I am in agreement with everything you've said. The media is using every possible tactic to scare everyone of all ages into getting the flu shot--even going so far as to say that getting the flu can seriously impact your future health. Oh, seriously?

woodog, If people would STAY HOME when sick, sneeze and cough into their sleeves, and be respectfuly of those around them, the flu would not be so widespread.

Ando, I'm not tyring to be a hero, I follow alternative medicine, and very healthy eating habits, as well as a daily exercise regime, and am not ready to jump on the bandwagon and get a flu shot yet. I've had H1N1, and it was very rough, however, I also suffered extreme incapacitating vertigo for almost a full year as the result of medication. Nothing I've ever had was a debilitating as that, or scary. I couldn't even use my electric toothbrush, I walked as if I were drunk most of the time, and that was on a good day.

Top
#2019066 - 01/22/13 01:48 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
woodog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 376
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Originally Posted By: chasingrainbows

woodog, If people would STAY HOME when sick, sneeze and cough into their sleeves, and be respectfuly of those around them, the flu would not be so widespread.




If students would practice slowly..

If drivers would ignore their cell phones..

If teens wouldn't smoke..

if, if if...

The plural of anecdote is not data, and the science is well settled on the flu shot. It is a good public health measure.

I still say that if you care about the people around you, you should get a flu shot.

but hey, I'm just one guy with a keyboard, an opinion and an internet connection.

So, ya know, take that for what it's worth. :-)

Forrest
_________________________
Graham Fitch's Piano Pedagogy Site
(A WORTHY RESOURCE!)

--------------------
current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque
Beethoven Op. 78
Bach WTC 1, C# Major (#3)

Top
#2019094 - 01/22/13 02:52 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3504
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky


Risk may be as low as one in a million chance of serious side effect. Sounds like a small risk. But when 100 million doses are given each year, you may have 100 people with serious problems from it. If they were otherwise healthy adults, it was not a risk they needed to take IMO.


If you failed to dispense those 100 million doses, there would be a lot more than 100 seriously ill people. Mortality rates for flu can be very high, and just having the flu can knock the stuffing out of your for several weeks or more. typical adverse reactions to the vaccine are very mild by comparison. The whole point is that the risk of the vaccine is much lower than the risk of the flu.

Dismissing it as a marketing scam sound like a conspiracy theory and is missing the point of just how important the flu vaccine has been. For the immuno-compromised people in society, and that includes me as a 20 year type 1 diabetic, it's a life saver. You wouldn't believe how bad the flu is for a diabetic. I haven't had the flu since getting flu vaccinations - prior to that I'd had it every other year. There have been some particularly nasty strains of the flu in recent years and that's what's driving the recommendation to get vaccinated. It's being recommended by health professionals across the board - they aren't all participating in a drug company profit-drive.

Of course, there are no guarantees with the fluvax. It doesn't always stop your catching the flu, but it's a measure I think a good many people should seriously consider. Teachers have the potential to spread the flu to a lot of people.

Top
#2019123 - 01/22/13 03:38 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: woodog]
chasingrainbows Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1019
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: woodog
I get a flu shot every year. I love myself. I also love the people around me.

Not getting a flu shot would be most disrespectful of the people around me.

Forrest


only if they didn't get the flu shot. I asked many of my students and parents and was surprised how many said they weren't getting the flu shot.

Top
#2019134 - 01/22/13 03:50 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
zapper Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/13
Posts: 77
oh gush, flu shots - one of the biggest and dangerous scams recently. It's really tragic how naive people are...

Top
#2019142 - 01/22/13 03:59 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: rocket88]
KurtZ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 851
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
I always shoot for November. I have done it in December on occasion, when inertia and other procrastination has gripped me.


Am I the first to get this? If intentional, good one!


I only got this because spanish for flu is gripe (gree-pay)
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

Top
#2019154 - 01/22/13 04:26 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: zapper]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5901
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: zapper
oh gush, flu shots - one of the biggest and dangerous scams recently. It's really tragic how naive people are...
No - what's really tragic is someone dying from a preventable disease.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#2019218 - 01/22/13 06:32 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
KurtZ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 851
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
Diptheria
Polio
Whooping Cough
Tuberculosis

All scams. Probably Truman's fault. I could never trust a president who wore lenses. It's just not manly.

Kurt
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

Top
#2019333 - 01/22/13 09:48 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3155
Loc: Virginia, USA
If you don't want to get the flu shot,

and,

you don't want to catch the flu from one of your students,

I have the answer!

Their tuition is reduced by the cost of one lesson by showing you their flu shot certificate.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2019424 - 01/23/13 01:24 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: zapper]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3504
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: zapper
oh gush, flu shots - one of the biggest and dangerous scams recently. It's really tragic how naive people are...


Yeah sure, it's a scam... crazy I bet you see scams everywhere you look.

Top
#2019468 - 01/23/13 06:02 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Here is one possible reason the flu shot is being promoted for everyone.

http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html

This shows that the national vaccine injury compensation program is funded by sales of vaccine. A 75 cents per dose tax goes to the fund. 100 million flu vaccines given per year adds 75 million to the program.

You will not hear interviews about vaccine injuries by Oprah because part of the process of being reimbursed for injury involves a legal agreement not to talk about it.

Here's a report of problems from Sweden. But you won't hear this sort of thing in the US. http://health.yahoo.net/news/s/nm/insight-evidence-grows-for-narcolepsy-link-to-gsk-swine-flu-shot


Edited by Ann in Kentucky (01/23/13 06:20 AM)
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2019483 - 01/23/13 07:27 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
I currently work in healthcare. Every employee and volunteer is required to have the flu shot. It's mandatory. It's that important. Those who refuse (or are in some way unable) to take the shot are required to wear a mask at all times while at work for the protection of themselves and others or they don't work there anymore. Personally, I regard the mask as a bit of overkill, perhaps even punishment for not getting with the program, but I do recommend the flu shot. Unless you have some serious allergy that prevents you from taking the shot, it's a no brainer. Those who have the luxury of to cook up conspiratory theories and those gullible enough to believe them, are coasting along on herd immunity. People die of the flu every day. My grandfather's entire immediate family was wiped out by the 1918 epidemic. He was "lucky" enough to be still overseas with the army in France at the time. It's not just a bad cold or a tummy bug. It kills.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

Top
#2019492 - 01/23/13 07:56 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Did you notice how the flu epidemic of 1918 was not repeated the following year? Or even in the next 95 years. And without the intervention of modern medicine. Hmm.

I wonder what changed. I wonder if improvements in nutrition and sanitary conditions made the difference.




Edited by Ann in Kentucky (01/23/13 07:56 AM)
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2019495 - 01/23/13 08:03 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
Just be glad you've been have the luxury to entertain all your skepticism, Ann. It's because of modern medicine (and there's been a ton of intervention)and that "suspect" vaccine. The 1918 epidemic wasn't repeated because the virus mutated to a less lethal strain. There have been other pandemics as widespread but not nearly as lethal because of the intervention of modern medicine and the rest of us are doing our part.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

Top
#2019497 - 01/23/13 08:09 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
I am here today because of modern medicine. Otherwise I would have been one of those who died in childbirth. My hat is off to modern medicine in general.

I also like to have full information. And I see issues around vaccines to be shrouded in the don't ask don't tell mentality.
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2019500 - 01/23/13 08:17 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: -Frycek]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: -Frycek
The 1918 epidemic wasn't repeated because the virus mutated to a less lethal strain.


Thank you for admitting that vaccines were not the answer to this one.

I would look at the conditions around the epidemic...conditions in WWI camps...malnourished, overcrowded young men with birds and pigs kept nearby. Then travelling and spreading the disease.

You can also approach this from the point of preventing the conditions that lead to this disaster.


Edited by Ann in Kentucky (01/23/13 08:19 AM)
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2019504 - 01/23/13 08:30 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17746
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
This probably only muddies the waters, but The Ethicist column in the New York Times tackled just yesterday the question of whether one should get a flu shot:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/magazine/must-i-get-a-flu-shot.html?_r=0

The bottom line was that people should get the shot but were not ethically obligated to. I'm not sure I entirely agree with him on this, at least when it comes to childhood vaccines for life-threatening diseases. It's one thing to say that you don't want the pain and inconvenience and very small risk of complications for yourself, but when that decision endangers other children, the issue becomes more complex.

Put me in the camp that, yes, everybody who is eligible should get the flu vaccine (and other vaccines). Vaccines have saved millions of lives throughout history. There will be some small number of complications (and that number is very, very small with the fluvax), but the greater social benefit is enormous and indisputable.

Smallpox killed more people throughout the history of humankind than all our wars combined, and it's eradicated now only because of vaccines. That's pretty compelling to me.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

Top
#2019508 - 01/23/13 08:36 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
I didn't admit anything. The vaccine is a preventative, not a cure. There is no cure. There are palliatives they may shorten the course but the body ultimately has to ride it out. Yes, of course better nutrition helps the body withstand the disease by making it healthier, which is why it is usually the elderly, the chronically ill, and young children who are most likely to perish. Better hygiene is a two edged weapon in that it can help prevent the spread of water borne diseases such as cholera (which the flu is not) but too much of it tends to weaken the immune system. Toxic shock syndrome is the result of too much cleanliness and part of the rise in the incidence of asthma may be from the same cause. The best preventative we have now is that vaccine (or those vaccines as they have to be tailored each year to what strains are believed to be prevalent). Some years the vaccine is more effective than others for this reason. Do you understand how herd immunity works? It works be creating a "herd" of resistent individuals so that the virus tries to infect a lot of "dead ends" and is it's ability to spread is limited. The vulnerable, the unvaccinated and those in which the vaccine did not "take" are protected by being part of this herd. The bigger the herd, the greater the protection.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

Top
#2019521 - 01/23/13 09:01 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Getting heated, eh?

There are arguments this way and that. Just because something is advisable for healthworkers or immuno-compromised people doesn't mean it's a good idea for everyone to have it.

Just imagine if we all got vaccines for everything (and our immune systems get out of practice for the real thing) and then something really lethal does come round.

Like I say, there are arguments this way and that. But for those who have said "I get the jab because it's the responsible thing to do" - do you think I'm irresponsible for not getting it?
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

Top
#2019527 - 01/23/13 09:07 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Maybe this thread could inspire a composer. The music could take the form of a 2 part invention. Or 3 part invention with a little voice creeping in to say that they see a link between certain childhood vaccinations and autism. And then a thunderous crash could completely drown out the little voice.


Edited by Ann in Kentucky (01/23/13 09:12 AM)
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2019533 - 01/23/13 09:19 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4414
Loc: San Jose, CA
"...If people would STAY HOME when sick, sneeze and cough into their sleeves..."

We also have something called a handkerchief. It is more sanitary, and far less disgusting.

I suspect that those who believe our population enjoys better nutrition than those who lived in 1914-18, are living in a fool's paradise. The Surgeon General says that the data suggest otherwise--- today we have fatter people (look around) who are actually malnourished.

Monica has hit the snail on the head--- the "we don't vaccinate" crowd, who are depending on other 'more ignorant' people's children being vaccinated to prevent their own kids from coming down with diseases which can have deadly consequences, should just have their necks wrung and let's get it over with. They might do well to Google up the word 'polio'--- and it has plenty of company.

Many kids were killed outright by this disease, before the Salk and Sabin vaccines were developed. Others were paralyzed for life, or lost the use of one or more limbs. Some could only be kept alive by being in an 'iron lung,' a machine which breathed for them. Quite a life, eh?

Smallpox was benign by comparison; those who weren't killed were merely disfigured.

"Marketing," Ann--- really. If you work in public health and don't know any better than this, maybe some other career would be less destructive.
_________________________
Clef


Top
#2019562 - 01/23/13 10:02 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
This composition could be too boring if we just shout our viewpoints. Let's have a movement in which we are all required to switch sides.
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2019563 - 01/23/13 10:05 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Jeff Clef]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef


"Marketing," Ann--- really. If you work in public health and don't know any better than this, maybe some other career would be less destructive.


I've left. But while there, I towed the company line and kept my opinion to myself. And gave flu shots to those at risk since that was the recommendation at the time.
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2019577 - 01/23/13 10:31 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1263
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
I am here today because of modern medicine. Otherwise I would have been one of those who died in childbirth. My hat is off to modern medicine in general.

I also like to have full information. And I see issues around vaccines to be shrouded in the don't ask don't tell mentality.


+1
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

Top
#2019589 - 01/23/13 11:06 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: ten left thumbs]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21266
Loc: Oakland
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Getting heated, eh?

There are arguments this way and that. Just because something is advisable for healthworkers or immuno-compromised people doesn't mean it's a good idea for everyone to have it.

Just imagine if we all got vaccines for everything (and our immune systems get out of practice for the real thing) and then something really lethal does come round.

Like I say, there are arguments this way and that. But for those who have said "I get the jab because it's the responsible thing to do" - do you think I'm irresponsible for not getting it?


Immunization is not a substitute for the immune system. It works by stimulating it.

If you are a teacher, dealing with a lot of students, do you think you might become a vector? Will you feel responsibility for those who catch it from you? If you get sick, are you comfortable with the loss of income when you cannot teach? What do you think your responsibility is?
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#2019608 - 01/23/13 11:59 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: -Frycek]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3155
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: -Frycek
The vaccine is a preventative, not a cure.


Thank you, thank you, thank you!

It is so extremely rare to see the word used correctly. I have reported you to the grammar police for a special commendation.

As you correctly used it, preventative is a noun. It is NOT an adjective; preventive is an adjective. We practise preventive medicine by using a vaccine as a preventative.

And if I had a nickel for every time I've seen it used right, I'd be up to 5 cents with your contribution.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2019616 - 01/23/13 12:08 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Monica K.]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3155
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: Monica K.
Smallpox killed more people throughout the history of humankind than all our wars combined, and it's eradicated now only because of vaccines. That's pretty compelling to me.




I agree with you.

I mostly bowed out after my first rude comment about superstition. But I think I need to opine that the gulf here is vaster than you realize, and unbridgable.

It is not simply a rational cost benefit analysis between alternatives, like deciding whether tylenol or motrin is better for a fever.


There is a fundamental world view difference between people who rely on science, data, evidence, logic, etc., and people who distrust all of the above.

The alternative medicine camp has not decided for one choice among options - they have rejected one choice, and by default accepted what was left.

Having attempted reasonable discussions about the actual evidence for and against various forms of therapy, including vaccination, homeopathy, crystal healing, chiropractic, acupuncture, iridology, etc. (yes I worked in health care 8 years myself) I have concluded discussion is fruitless. Worse, continuing a calm and reasonable conversation normally provokes rage eventually.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2019651 - 01/23/13 01:02 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: BDB]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: BDB

If you are a teacher, dealing with a lot of students, do you think you might become a vector?


It is as likely as that they will catch flu from a child or teacher at school.

Quote:

Will you feel responsibility for those who catch it from you?


Not in the slightest. I take time off when I know I'm infectious.

Quote:
If you get sick, are you comfortable with the loss of income when you cannot teach?


Totally. It goes with the territory when you're self-employed.

Quote:
What do you think your responsibility is?


To teach piano! smile
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

Top
#2019688 - 01/23/13 02:34 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: ten left thumbs]
chasingrainbows Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1019
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Originally Posted By: BDB

If you are a teacher, dealing with a lot of students, do you think you might become a vector?


It is as likely as that they will catch flu from a child or teacher at school.

Quote:

Will you feel responsibility for those who catch it from you?


Not in the slightest. I take time off when I know I'm infectious.

Quote:
If you get sick, are you comfortable with the loss of income when you cannot teach?


Totally. It goes with the territory when you're self-employed.

Quote:
What do you think your responsibility is?


To teach piano! smile


Ditto! smile If I am contagious, I stay home. Unfortunately, too many parents have sent children to lessons sneezing, coughing, feverish, etc. even though I will gladly give a make up lesson in the event of illness. Why should I be forced to get a vaccine when I believe in alternative medicine (and it has worked for me) because of the disrespect and inconsiderate action of others who are sick and do not stay home?

Top
#2019698 - 01/23/13 02:47 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Bigmark Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 18
Loc: UK
I've never had the flu jab,BUT.. I have now had influenza three times in seven years, previous to that in my fifty one years on this planet I had it once. I am just getting over my third bout.
I am sure that those who sell the flu vaccine are also the ones who release the virus onto the general public ?

Top
#2019702 - 01/23/13 03:01 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
Originally Posted By: chasingrainbows
Why should I be forced to get a vaccine when I believe in alternative medicine (and it has worked for me) because of the disrespect and inconsiderate action of others who are sick and do not stay home?


Unfortunately, the flu virus can spread without the affected person having symptoms:

For adults:

Quote:
So, when are you most contagious? Most experts agree that adults with a cold or the flu start being contagious about a day before they start experiencing symptoms.


For children:

Quote:
For the flu, the contagious period then lasts five to seven days into the illness. For children, the contagious period for the flu can last up to two weeks after they start feeling sick, even if they start feeling better before that. The contagious period for a cold lasts about three to four days into the illness. As a general rule, people with a cold are most contagious about three days after their initial exposure to the virus.


From this article:

http://health.howstuffworks.com/diseases-conditions/cold-flu/contagious.htm
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

Top
#2019703 - 01/23/13 03:01 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Bigmark]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: Bigmark
I've never had the flu jab,BUT.. I have now had influenza three times in seven years, previous to that in my fifty one years on this planet I had it once. I am just getting over my third bout.
I am sure that those who sell the flu vaccine are also the ones who release the virus onto the general public ?


Now that's the most sensible thing anyone has said.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

Top
#2019706 - 01/23/13 03:08 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Bigmark]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3504
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Bigmark
I've never had the flu jab,BUT.. I have now had influenza three times in seven years, previous to that in my fifty one years on this planet I had it once. I am just getting over my third bout.
I am sure that those who sell the flu vaccine are also the ones who release the virus onto the general public ?


I suppose America faked the moon-landings too?

What point are you trying to make? As far as I can tell, you don't get flu jabs and you catch the flu every other year. That's your argument against the fluvax?Maybe if you had had the fluvax you wouldn't have had the flu so much. Conspiracies? Please...

Top
#2019707 - 01/23/13 03:09 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: ten left thumbs]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3504
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Originally Posted By: Bigmark
I've never had the flu jab,BUT.. I have now had influenza three times in seven years, previous to that in my fifty one years on this planet I had it once. I am just getting over my third bout.
I am sure that those who sell the flu vaccine are also the ones who release the virus onto the general public ?


Now that's the most sensible thing anyone has said.


I really hope you're joking...

Top
#2019734 - 01/23/13 04:16 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
One of the saddest things I see, is the abuse of the health care system. Especially by those that have no health insurance for whatever reason. Here's what I mean.

A couple of weeks ago, I had my Gallbladder removed. They were considering keeping me overnight as it was 8 PM by that time anyway to help me with the pain that I was having from surgery but instead, they had to send me home to a completely miserably night of barely any sleep and lots of pain. Actually, I had that for several nights.

The reason?? The whole hospital they said, was filled with people that had come into the ER (Key word here ----> ER<----) with the flu. They didn't go to an Urgent Care Center where they belonged but, into the ER which is for the REAL emergencies. Oh sure, it's obvious that many people there had true emergencies but, you know what I'm talking about if you've ever gone to one yourself with a real emergency what the wait is like because of this. Consequently there were no open beds for me. That is just plain ridiculous. I would have much rather have had my pain under better control but on the other hand, I don't want to catch whatever is in that hospital either.

No, I did not have the flu shot. Every year that I've ever gotten the shot, I've gotten the flu. Every year that I've not gotten the shot, I've not gotten the flu. This year, I had a cold for 10 days but, other than that, I've been okay.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#2019759 - 01/23/13 04:46 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Love it Nikalette. I don't get paid to stay home either but, I do whenever I'm sick. In fact, I have it on my scheduling site if you're sick, please let me know because I don't want to catch whatever you have. I'd rather we rescheduled.

I have a brother in law who's build up 19 MONTHS worth of sick pay and brags about how he goes to work sick. 19 MONTHS of free sick days!!! Ludicrous. While these same dopes, pass it onto the rest of us.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#2019763 - 01/23/13 04:51 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3155
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
One of the saddest things I see, is the abuse of the health care system. Especially by those that have no health insurance for whatever reason.
[...]
The reason?? The whole hospital they said, was filled with people that had come into the ER (Key word here ----> ER<----) with the flu. They didn't go to an Urgent Care Center where they belonged but, into the ER which is for the REAL emergencies. [...] Consequently there were no open beds for me.

Jerry, I'm sorry you had that experience after your surgery. But your ire seems misplaced. Not everyone has access to an Urgent Care Center -- we didn't have one in my area until a year ago. And one of the upshots of people not having health insurance is that they try to put off seeing a doctor at all, until their illness requires going to a hospital and they can't put it off any more.

If these people with the flu were taking up beds, and not just causing a long wait in the emergency room, than that means that their flu had become an emergency requiring hospitalization. Or even if it wasn't an emergency but it was still serious enough to require hospitalization and they could have been admitted from an Urgent Care Center, they still would have been taking up beds and you would have had to be sent home anyway.

So it sounds to me that your issue is not with people going to the Emergency Room, but with whatever causes that many people to be sick enough with the flu to need a hospital bed. And if you're going to pin that on people without health insurance, then the thing to protest is not that people without insurance take the entirely reasonable position of trying to save precious money by not visiting a doctor when a sickness is not of crisis proportions. Rather, the thing to protest is the circumstances of insurance in this country which mean so many people can't afford it and aren't covered.

And it might not even be a neglected flu and people without insurance who were taking up the hospital beds. Maybe flu was just being very very serious at the time you had your surgery, and all those people would have ended up in the hospital regardless of the prior doctor's care they received.

Or maybe if they'd all had a flu shot, they wouldn't have been in the hospital in the first place. Which brings us back to the question of this thread: should you have a flu shot?
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2019785 - 01/23/13 05:19 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Minniemay Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 1702
Loc: CA
Not true. Many people without health insurance go to the ER because they have no family doctor and the ER is required to see them, even without insurance. This is a primary problem among the working poor. They go to the ER for things like the common cold because they have no other alternative.
_________________________
B.A., Piano, Piano Pegagogy, Music Ed.
M.M., Piano

Top
#2019793 - 01/23/13 05:29 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3155
Loc: Maine
OK, I take your point. But they wouldn't have been hospitalized if their flu were not serious. So the problem Jerry encountered, that all the hospital beds were full, is not caused by people going to the ER instead of the doctor. It's caused by people having a bad flu needing hospitalization, which can happen whether or not they have insurance, and whether or not they went to their family doctor or the ER first.

I personally am sympathetic to people who feel their best or only option is going to the ER for non-emergencies because of the crap insurance situation in this country.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2019856 - 01/23/13 07:06 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Quote:
And one of the upshots of people not having health insurance is that they try to put off seeing a doctor at all, until their illness requires going to a hospital and they can't put it off any more.


That isn't anyone's fault but their own.

People taking up beds, due to waiting so long well, I don't feel so sorry for them. Wait until you're on your death bed before going in and usually always going into ER for whatever reason is a cop out. It takes away from those that truly need the ER.

Quote:
So it sounds to me that your issue is not with people going to the Emergency Room, but with whatever causes that many people to be sick enough with the flu to need a hospital bed.


Did I say that? No, I did not. That is not true at all. The truth of the matter is that people abuse the ER constantly. I know, I've been there with my dad when he was having strokes and my wife's dad when he was having strokes. We waited and waited and waited and waited for 6 hours every single time which gave me plenty of time to listen to the people that did not need to be there.

I heard what many people were in there for and it was not necessary for those people to be there at all in many cases.

One person did in fact, stub their toe. Another, sprained their ankle. It wasn't broken, he was walking around on it. I wondered how badly hurt he really even was? Those were true incidents.

I have health insurance. I pay $700 a month for it however, I also have a $10,000 PER YEAR deductible too! I have NO coverage at all for physical therapy should it be needed.

I have used that $10,000 deductible every year for the past 3 years and then some for things that were not covered at all.

Even with my high deductible, I don't allow myself to get to the point where I'm so sick that I have to go down to ER.

Oh, and I did not say, that the whole hospital was filled with people with no health insurance. You did. I said what the hospital told me. That there were no beds available because the hospital was full of people with the flu.

Quote:
I personally am sympathetic to people who feel their best or only option is going to the ER for non-emergencies because of the crap insurance situation in this country.


For the proper reasons most certainly but not for a walk in clinic when they have other options just as I do.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#2019874 - 01/23/13 07:26 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3155
Loc: Maine
I withdraw any speculation about how people ended up sick enough with the flu that they needed hospitalization.

I'm sorry, I apparently misunderstood your complaint. You started off by complaining about people without health insurance who abuse the emergency room, and then went on to talk about the bad effect for you of not being able to stay overnight at the hospital because all the beds were filled with people with the flu. So are you saying that your two complaints are unrelated to each other? Were you complaining about two separate facts which are unrelated except by the fact that they both occur in hospitals?
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2019876 - 01/23/13 07:29 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
I am complaining about the abuse of the ER system in general. I thought I was clear about that. wink
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#2019880 - 01/23/13 07:35 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3155
Loc: Maine
That's what I thought. But I don't think hospitalization is related to abuse of the emergency room. If the ER is overfilled with people with the common cold and lightly sprained ankles, those people are not going to be hospitalized and take up a bed. So I still don't understand why, if you were complaining about the ER, you added on a complaint about hospital beds being filled.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2019886 - 01/23/13 07:44 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
I added the complaint because I don't like it that I didn't get a bed when I could have used one. smile

For one, if people wouldn't wait for so long to go to the ER in the first place, many of them would probably not need to be hospitalized right? That doesn't just go for people with the flu either. That can also easily be applied for people with heart issues for example; that don't take their medications. Where do they wind up again? ER.

That goes for people that don't follow their doctor's advice. Where do they eventually wind up again? ER.

That goes for people that smoke and have clogged arteries and other health issues but yet they keep on smoking. Where do they wind up? The ER. On and on it goes.

So when someone else comes along that could really use the bed that the abused ER person is taking and can't get one? That's my beef. Abuse of the ER. smile
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#2019954 - 01/23/13 09:59 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21266
Loc: Oakland
People go to the emergency room because there is no guarantee that anywhere else will see them if they do not have insurance. That is probably the major reason for the health care act, and it is where the greatest savings are expected. If people had insurance, other options would be open to them. I agree that people should be more responsible. But often the same people who want others to be responsible complain about the law that requires people to be responsible.

For me, the co-pay is $25 if I go to urgent care, and $100 if I go to the emergency room. The main difference is that I have to make an appointment for urgent care, although if they find something which is really an emergency, they will take me down to the emergency room.

My doctor recommended a flu shot. Flu shots are free for Kaiser members like me, because Kaiser feels it is cheaper to prevent the flu than to treat it. I can walk in any time and get one, no appointment necessary.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#2019955 - 01/23/13 10:07 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
MaggieGirl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 470
Maybe they should have 2 different emergency rooms - those for people with preventable emergencies and those with unpreventable emergencies.

Personally I had to go to the same emergency room three times in 30 days. I did not see the "abuses" you described.

I have insurance and my daughter fell while skating and her ankle swelled instantly. The doctor's office was closed and urgent care said the x ray tech was gone for the day and she needed an orthopedist and they don't have one on staff anyway.

I suppose I should only have allowed her to skate until 4:30pm so if she got hurt we wouldn't be abusing the ER.

Or maybe to not allow her to skate at all because getting hurt happens and so then it was a preventable emergency.

They didn't have you stay over because typically patients from that procedure don't stay overnight (or the bed would have been reserved)and it wasn't an emergency.

Top
#2019964 - 01/23/13 10:26 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Oh come on now Maggie, let's not exaggerate things now. wink There is a proper time and a proper place for proper ER use.

I do love your idea though about 2 separate ER rooms. That would be nicer.

No, mine was not an emergency because I went to my doctor to have things checked out as I should have done before it became an emergency.

Even my surgeon said (along with many other people) that 10 years ago, this type of surgery would have been considered a normal 5 day hospital stay but, as many of us know, the insurance companies dictate today what they are going to pay for and how much and how long you can stay in the hospital. That is a main reason why we cannot stay longer.

One reason they wanted to keep me there in the first place was to help control the pain. Not that I'm a wuss, I'm certainly not that.

BDB if you think for a minute that the healthcare is going to be less expensive you are dead wrong. It has already gone up and will go up more this year and a lot more next year. My wife is an insurance agent and knows a lot more about what is coming down the pike than we are being told and so far, she has been right on the money. But, I don't care to get into that debate.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#2019980 - 01/23/13 10:56 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21266
Loc: Oakland
I have no idea whether the overall effect of the healthcare act will increase or reduce the cost. All I was saying is that lowering the number of emergency room visits is expected to reduce costs. Whether that is offset by other costs, I do not know.

However, no matter what, my rates have gone up. When I started tuning, one tuning would cover a month's insurance. Now it takes five or six.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#2020017 - 01/24/13 12:08 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Cinnamonbear Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3843
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: chasingrainbows
Have you received the flu shot, and if not, why not? [...]


Food for thought
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

Top
#2020027 - 01/24/13 12:37 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
The Monkeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 422
Loc: Vancouver BC
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted By: chasingrainbows
Have you received the flu shot, and if not, why not? [...]


Food for thought


According to WOT (Web Of Trust), the site has a very poor reputation rating.

When I get a new computer, the first thing I do is to install WOT plugin for my browser as an essential security tool.



Edited by The Monkeys (01/24/13 12:38 AM)

Top
#2020175 - 01/24/13 07:52 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: ando]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Originally Posted By: Bigmark
I've never had the flu jab,BUT.. I have now had influenza three times in seven years, previous to that in my fifty one years on this planet I had it once. I am just getting over my third bout.
I am sure that those who sell the flu vaccine are also the ones who release the virus onto the general public ?


Now that's the most sensible thing anyone has said.


I really hope you're joking...


I'm exactly as serious as Bigmark.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

Top
#2020198 - 01/24/13 08:45 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: ten left thumbs]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3155
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Originally Posted By: Bigmark
I've never had the flu jab,BUT.. I have now had influenza three times in seven years, previous to that in my fifty one years on this planet I had it once. I am just getting over my third bout.
I am sure that those who sell the flu vaccine are also the ones who release the virus onto the general public ?


Now that's the most sensible thing anyone has said.


I really hope you're joking...


I'm exactly as serious as Bigmark.


A variant of Poe's Law?
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2020288 - 01/24/13 11:48 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
chasingrainbows Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1019
Loc: NJ
Jerry, was there a difference in your flu symptoms when you had received the flu shot and when you did not get the flu shot?


Ando, I believe Bigmark was being facetious.


Edited by chasingrainbows (01/24/13 11:49 AM)

Top
#2020356 - 01/24/13 01:26 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Each time I got the flu shot, after a couple of days I wound up being sick for about a week up to maybe 10 days or so tops. I've been healthier without getting the flu shot but then I take Vitamin D3 twice a day too FWIW.

Without the flu shot when I got sick, it lasted about the same amount of time. The symptoms were pretty much the same as far as I can remember.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#2020637 - 01/24/13 06:21 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2412
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT

I do love your idea though about 2 separate ER rooms. That would be nicer.


Many places in the US already have this system in the form of County Hospitals and for profit hospitals.
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

Top
#2024341 - 01/30/13 11:22 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Jonathan Baker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/09/09
Posts: 281
Loc: New York City!
In my personal experience I see no correlation between getting the flu shot and not getting the flu. Last winter I got the flu shot and got sick four consecutive times - it was absolutely dreadful, the worst winter of my life. This winter I did not get the flu shot and my health is sterling. Again, I see no direct benefit to anyone but the stockholders of drug companies.
_________________________
Jonathan Baker
http://www.BakerPianoLessons.com/index.htm

Top
#2024583 - 01/31/13 11:13 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
chasingrainbows Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1019
Loc: NJ
One of my students is a nurse and said that people who get the flu shot are still getting the flu, so I am going to pass again this year on the flu shot. Thanks to everyone for their input--it has been very informative, intersting and helpful. smile

Top
#2024628 - 01/31/13 12:25 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3155
Loc: Virginia, USA
Here's what the CDC says:

Quote:
What do recent vaccine effectiveness studies show?

Preliminary data for the 2010-2011 influenza season indicate that influenza vaccine effectiveness was about 60% for all age groups combined, and that almost all influenza viruses isolated from study participants were well-matched to the vaccine strains (Unpublished CDC data). A randomized study (by Monto et al [137 KB, 8 pages]) looking at the 2007-2008 influenza season found trivalent inactivated vaccine (flu shot) protected 7 out of 10 people from influenza illness. Studies show that LAIV works about as well as the flu shot. The main study that led to the licensure of LAIV was one conducted in children that showed that LAIV protected up to 9 out of 10 children vaccinated against the flu. A recent meta-analysis of randomized clinical trials of LAIV in children found that 2 doses of LAIV in vaccine-naïve children prevented infection with 77% of antigenically similar viruses and 72% of all viruses regardless of antigenic similarity.


In other words, the real data shows effectiveness between 60% and 90%.

And most people will reject the data in favor of an anecdote from a cousin of their mother-in-law's neighbor who never gets the flu shot and hasn't been sick a day in her life.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2024669 - 01/31/13 02:19 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Tim, the data is not scientific enough IMO.

If you had randomly chosen groups (Group A gets vaccine, Group B doesn't) then you have the basis for a scientific study. But this study compares those who choose a vaccine (the insured, middle class) to those who do not get the vaccine. This is not a scientific study. This study has merely shown that middle class folks are less likely to get sick than poor folks. No surprise there.

It could likely be shown that folks who refrain from attending ball games and church during flu season are 60% less likely to get the flu. But there seems to be little interest in common sense these days. Much more exciting to look for a purchase that ensures good health.



Edited by Ann in Kentucky (01/31/13 02:25 PM)
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2024674 - 01/31/13 02:27 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
But this study compares those who choose a vaccine (the insured, middle class) to those who do not get the vaccine. This is not a scientific study. This study has merely shown that middle class folks are less likely to get sick than poor folks. No surprise there.


I am a veteran, and go to the VA clinic. Flu shots are free for all veterans at the clinic, regardless of their economic status. Many are clearly not middle class.
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

Top
#2024701 - 01/31/13 02:57 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3155
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
Tim, the data is not scientific enough IMO.




You are properly skeptical with respect to the medical position.

It is based on an in depth understanding of biochemical functioning on the molecular level, including knowing the specific proteins that bind on the antigen sites and being able to sequence the genome of the virus. And it is based on large studies to determine the safety and effectiveness. And you should consider that when you apply your critical thinking skills to the problem - but I agree you should still do so.

However.

At the same time most of the people who are so extremely skeptical of the scientific or medical positions are completely unwilling to apply even a fraction of that skepticism to the alternatives.

Seems a bit contradictory, no? Huge amounts of scientific data on the one side, must apply extreme skepticism and question everything; couple of anecdotes on the other side, must be true.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2024749 - 01/31/13 04:30 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: TimR]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: TimR



At the same time most of the people who are so extremely skeptical of the scientific or medical positions are completely unwilling to apply even a fraction of that skepticism to the alternatives.



I guarantee you that if any alternatives caused the damage that vaccines have caused, the alternatives would be quickly pulled from the market. Only with vaccines do we have the government jump in and decide the companies are too important to fail, and shift all responsibility for damages onto the taxpayer.

The alternatives such as hand washing and avoiding crowds have never been associated with GBS or brain damage (i.e. learning disorders and autism). Vaccines do appear to be contributing to these problems. And we have yet to have a scientific study do more than analyze preservatives in vaccine. Endless speculation. But never a scientific study of two groups randomly assigned to the group that get or don't get vaccines. Plus studying one vaccine, is not like reality which is that babies get immunized against 7 diseases in one office visit...then repeat at regular intervals.


Edited by Ann in Kentucky (01/31/13 04:33 PM)
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2024782 - 01/31/13 05:17 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Wow! I actually received a benefit by participating in this debate. LOL!

I've had a continuous headache for 2 days. But now after getting my blood boiling over this issue, the headache is gone. I'm sure there is a scientific reason...most likely epinephrine and endorphins released as part of the fight or flight response.

Anyway, thank you for this cure that my usual OTC remedies could not handle.

OK. I sign out now. Years ago I saw statistics about effectiveness of certain vaccines. Effectiveness looks indisputable in one representation. Then overlay the usual bell curve that an outbreak has and you see the vaccines came in at the tail of the bell curve. Sometimes how effective a vaccine looked depended on whether you looked at monthly or yearly stats etc. It all depended on how the statistics were presented. So, yes, I am a doubting Thomas.
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2024939 - 01/31/13 11:14 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4414
Loc: San Jose, CA
"...So, yes, I am a doubting Thomas."

Well, I'm glad your headache is better.
_________________________
Clef


Top
#2024994 - 02/01/13 01:22 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: TimR]
AZNpiano Online   sleepy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5418
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: TimR
At the same time most of the people who are so extremely skeptical of the scientific or medical positions are completely unwilling to apply even a fraction of that skepticism to the alternatives.

Is there a study to back up this assertion, or is this assertion anecdotal in nature?
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

Top
#2025024 - 02/01/13 02:55 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21266
Loc: Oakland

Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
I guarantee you that if any alternatives caused the damage that vaccines have caused, the alternatives would be quickly pulled from the market. Only with vaccines do we have the government jump in and decide the companies are too important to fail, and shift all responsibility for damages onto the taxpayer.


At least one portion of the alternative industry, the dietary supplements industry, has bought off Congress so that it is almost impossible for the government to pull their products off the market.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#2025106 - 02/01/13 07:17 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Jeff Clef]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef
"...So, yes, I am a doubting Thomas."

Well, I'm glad your headache is better.


Thanks Jeff. As it turned out, there was just a few hours without headache. Here I go again with day 3 of headache. Rats!
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2025130 - 02/01/13 08:07 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: BDB]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: BDB

Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
I guarantee you that if any alternatives caused the damage that vaccines have caused, the alternatives would be quickly pulled from the market. Only with vaccines do we have the government jump in and decide the companies are too important to fail, and shift all responsibility for damages onto the taxpayer.


At least one portion of the alternative industry, the dietary supplements industry, has bought off Congress so that it is almost impossible for the government to pull their products off the market.


I stand corrected. According to Wiki, lobbying by dietary supplement manufacturers resulted in DSHEA (Dietary Supplement of Health and Education Act) being passed in 1994. This shifted responsibility onto the FDA to prove that a supplement is unsafe. Supplement manufacturers do not need to assess risk and benefits and get FDA approval (as is required of pharmaceuticals).

IMO there is likely under reporting of adverse effects in this industry also.
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2025158 - 02/01/13 09:21 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: BDB]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3155
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: BDB

Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
I guarantee you that if any alternatives caused the damage that vaccines have caused, the alternatives would be quickly pulled from the market. Only with vaccines do we have the government jump in and decide the companies are too important to fail, and shift all responsibility for damages onto the taxpayer.


At least one portion of the alternative industry, the dietary supplements industry, has bought off Congress so that it is almost impossible for the government to pull their products off the market.


Yup. The supplements are made by the same Big Pharma that make our medications. But there's a difference. Medications are regulated, and the industry must prove safety and efficacy before a drug is approved. That costs between $400 million and $800 million. In contrast, supplements are considered "food," and no proof of either safety or efficacy is required. The profits are huge.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2025206 - 02/01/13 10:39 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: TimR]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1644
Loc: northern California
Interesting discussion! I'll jump in to say that I got a flu shot a month ago for the first time in 20 years. Thought it made sense to try it, as in past years I have been very sick with "flus'. Flu has hit my town hard right now, many kids are sick but who knows if it's the flu they have or other viruses. One mom told me that she and her family got flu shots back in November, and now they are all "very sick with the flu" . Must be a different strain or something. Anyway, I hope this shot works.
_________________________
Piano Teacher

Top
#2025322 - 02/01/13 01:29 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3155
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky


Quote:
At least one portion of the alternative industry, the dietary supplements industry, has bought off Congress so that it is almost impossible for the government to pull their products off the market.




IMO there is likely under reporting of adverse effects in this industry also.


Possibly. But, not necessarily. It isn't a given that a supplement will have any side effects.

Well, with a caveat of course. ANYTHING that has an effect will have side effects as well. It's the nature of the human body (and the universe!); the sytems are all linked, and anything with an effect inevitably affects something else.

But a supplement or ANY other medical treatment with no side effects can be considered to have no direct effects either. Just placebo. Which means the FDA position isn't unreasonable.


Edited by TimR (02/01/13 01:30 PM)
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2025338 - 02/01/13 02:03 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: TimR]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: TimR


It's the nature of the human body (and the universe!); the sytems are all linked, and anything with an effect inevitably affects something else.

But a supplement or ANY other medical treatment with no side effects can be considered to have no direct effects either. Just placebo. Which means the FDA position isn't unreasonable.


Your post reminds me of a pharmacist's lecture a few years ago. One thing that sticks in my mind is his announcement "Placebos are powerful drugs folks!" And it's true. People have adverse reactions to placebos and others have benefits. Strange but true.

I don't think anyone has said they think the FDA is unreasonable.

A vaccine may appear to have minimal negative effect and gain FDA approval. Serious side effects are not as simple as seeing that a kid's finger has fallen off. "My kid had 10 fingers yesterday and after the vaccine he only has 9." That would be easy to measure.

Instead, parents say "My kid had a high pitched cry the night after being vaccinated, and he's never been the same...wouldn't make eye contact"... and in time the kid is diagnosed with autism. These consequences are not easy to prove and they are revealed over time.

Or you get a vaccine, and some time later notice that one pupil is permanently dilated. A doctor may tell you it was caused by a virus. You haven't been sick that you know of, but faithfully get a flu shot each year. Does anyone trace this to a vaccine and is it a result of the vaccine?

Regarding autism: Numbers of cases are escalating in the US. Yet you cannot have an outbreak of a hereditary disease. So autism cannot be simply a hereditary disease. We have seen through history how a virus can damage the brain in certain ways. The damage seen in kids appears to be the work of a virus, yet they have not had any serious illness...but have had a boatload of immunizations. My impression is that the US requires more vaccinations than other countries. And the more vaccination requirements increase the more incidence of brain damage increases.

But we will continue to say "Why don't you prove it!" and hold our scholarly studies in hand saying look elsewhere for the cause of these problems.
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2025357 - 02/01/13 02:53 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1263
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
[quote=TimR]
Regarding autism: Numbers of cases are escalating in the US. Yet you cannot have an outbreak of a hereditary disease. So autism cannot be simply a hereditary disease. We have seen through history how a virus can damage the brain in certain ways. The damage seen in kids appears to be the work of a virus, yet they have not had any serious illness...but have had a boatload of immunizations. My impression is that the US requires more vaccinations than other countries. And the more vaccination requirements increase the more incidence of brain damage increases.

But we will continue to say "Why don't you prove it!" and hold our scholarly studies in hand saying look elsewhere for the cause of these problems.


Ann, I'm with you on the autism/vaccine connection. While it's deemed as purely anecdotal, I've heard enough 'anecdotes' and know families whose toddlers had a complete change (going from verbal to non-verbal, no eye contact, etc...) after receiving their scheduled vaccinations.

And don't get me started on Gardasil...
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

Top
#2025361 - 02/01/13 02:59 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: dumdumdiddle]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3155
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: dumdumdiddle
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
[quote=TimR]
Regarding autism: Numbers of cases are escalating in the US. Yet you cannot have an outbreak of a hereditary disease. So autism cannot be simply a hereditary disease. We have seen through history how a virus can damage the brain in certain ways. The damage seen in kids appears to be the work of a virus, yet they have not had any serious illness...but have had a boatload of immunizations. My impression is that the US requires more vaccinations than other countries. And the more vaccination requirements increase the more incidence of brain damage increases.

But we will continue to say "Why don't you prove it!" and hold our scholarly studies in hand saying look elsewhere for the cause of these problems.


Ann, I'm with you on the autism/vaccine connection. .


Except it's garbage. Autism rates have been rising. Worldwide. In countries that vaccinate children and in those that don't. And countries that changed their practices to reduce or eliminate vaccinations saw the rise continue unchanged. (Denmark removed thimerosal from the MMR; autism continued to rise, no change. Japan stopped vaccinating, ditto. The UK has seen a drastic reduction in vaccinated children due to the controversy, ditto.)

Many well designed studies have looked for a link between autism and vaccination, and they can't find one. Because there isn't one.

I know, I know. "don't confuse me with the facts."
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2025401 - 02/01/13 03:54 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: TimR]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: TimR


Except it's garbage. Autism rates have been rising. Worldwide. In countries that vaccinate children and in those that don't. And countries that changed their practices to reduce or eliminate vaccinations saw the rise continue unchanged. (Denmark removed thimerosal from the MMR; autism continued to rise, no change. Japan stopped vaccinating, ditto. The UK has seen a drastic reduction in vaccinated children due to the controversy, ditto.)

Many well designed studies have looked for a link between autism and vaccination, and they can't find one. Because there isn't one.

I know, I know. "don't confuse me with the facts."


You haven't actually given us facts. Citing studies would be a beginning.

All I've been able to discover are some limited studies about MMR. But Hello! The kids are getting MMR, DPT, OPV and maybe others all on the same day. I would love to see convincing research!

So, no need to confuse me with the facts. But please show us the facts!
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2025431 - 02/01/13 04:28 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3155
Loc: Virginia, USA
I know that anyone who's researched autism even slightly has come across Cohen's Assortative Mating hypothesis, which I find intriguing but very preliminary.

What's your thought on that possible cause? Because it would have a possible application to musicicans. (well, assortative mating definitely would, not the specific hypersystemization proposed)
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2025596 - 02/01/13 09:03 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
The mating theory would not come anywhere close to explaining these numbers published by the CDC on rate of autism in US:
2000 1 in 150
2002 1 in 150
2006 1 in 110
2008 1 in 88

I have been curious about vaccine recommendations in other countries though, and found this which shows the US differs a great deal from other Western countries in its vaccine recommendations and rates of autism. 36 vaccines by age of 5 as compared to 18 by other countries. And 10 times the rate of autism.

http://www.rescuepost.com/files/gr-autism_and_vaccines_world_special_report1.pdf

As far as vaccines and the flu shot goes, each person will have to make up their own mind.
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2025613 - 02/01/13 09:40 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3155
Loc: Virginia, USA
Sigh.

If you think Jenny McCarthy's website is data, there is little point in continuing the discussion.

Probably very few people have done as much actual harm to children as she has.

You have to make some effort to distinguish between an uneducated activist's blog and real studies.

I would really encourage you to venture away from Mercola and McCarthy and visit the CDC, the NIH, or some .edu sites.

Or even a library. (they hide the secrets.........in books!)
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2025619 - 02/01/13 09:45 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2412
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
*sigh*
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

Top
#2025624 - 02/01/13 09:58 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: TimR]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21266
Loc: Oakland
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
Yup. The supplements are made by the same Big Pharma that make our medications.


No, they are not.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#2025625 - 02/01/13 10:06 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: malkin]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3155
Loc: Virginia, USA
http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Anti-Vaccine_Body_Count/Home.html

I've seen a dog die of parvovirus.

My dog has had the shot.

Ah, I love my dog, but should I treat my children worse?
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2025628 - 02/01/13 10:17 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: BDB]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3155
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: BDB
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
Yup. The supplements are made by the same Big Pharma that make our medications.


No, they are not.


My information may be old, it's been some time since I checked into this. Last I looked, Pfizer had a huge market share, of course a lot of other companies relabel and sell under different brand names. Other ones that I know manufacture supplements (or import from China) include Wyeth, Bayer, GlaxoSmithKline, Unilever and Novartis.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2026043 - 02/02/13 09:02 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: TimR]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3155
Loc: Virginia, USA
I get passionate about this topic for a reason.

There are lots of people who have strong interests or beliefs in all sorts of wacko ideas, like astrology, ufo abductions, pyramid power, conspiracy theories, etc.

Most are harmless.

The vaccine deniers are not harmless. Broadcasting their irrational fears of vaccines kills children. Those are real illnesses and real deaths, completely preventable. I can't help reacting to that.

So my apologies, I know I have trouble being sufficiently courteous on this one.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#2026079 - 02/02/13 10:34 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: TimR]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2412
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
An overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy

A couple articles:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11700148

http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c7452
Clear evidence of falsification of data should now close the door on this damaging vaccine scare

The nonsense about "refrigerator mothers" has finally (mostly) left us, maybe this one can go too someday.

That being said, I would not say that there is no connection between vaccines and autism, only that there is no evidence of a connection.
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

Top
#2026252 - 02/03/13 10:41 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4414
Loc: San Jose, CA
"...The Office of Research Integrity in the United States defines fraud as fabrication, falsification, or plagiarism.13 Deer unearthed clear evidence of falsification. He found that not one of the 12 cases reported in the 1998 Lancet paper was free of misrepresentation or undisclosed alteration, and that in no single case could the medical records be fully reconciled with the descriptions, diagnoses, or histories published in the journal.

"Who perpetrated this fraud? There is no doubt that it was Wakefield. Is it possible that he was wrong, but not dishonest: that he was so incompetent that he was unable to fairly describe the project, or to report even one of the 12 children’s cases accurately? No. A great deal of thought and effort must have gone into drafting the paper to achieve the results he wanted: the discrepancies all led in one direction; misreporting was gross. Moreover, although the scale of the GMC’s 217 day hearing precluded additional charges focused directly on the fraud, the panel found him guilty of dishonesty concerning the study’s admissions criteria, its funding by the Legal Aid Board, and his statements about it afterwards.14

"Furthermore, Wakefield has been given ample opportunity either to replicate the paper’s findings, or to say he was mistaken. He has declined to do either. He refused to join 10 of his coauthors in retracting the paper’s interpretation in 2004,15 and has repeatedly denied doing anything wrong at all. Instead, although now disgraced and stripped of his clinical and academic credentials, he continues to push his views.16"


In other words, it was a big, fat lie, which has now been exposed and discredited.

The last sentence quoted might give some people a clue for their own benefit; the further material beyond the quote describes the harm of it, to the health of many thousands of kids around the world. It is not innocent, not a 'white lie,' and it is no wonder that people get a violent headache when they think of their part in the guilt, as they stubbornly repeat the lie.
_________________________
Clef


Top
#2026264 - 02/03/13 10:58 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21266
Loc: Oakland
Still, people believe what they want to believe. Those who plot increases of autism against increases of vaccinations do not plot them against increases of other things that they may want to do more than have a vaccination. I bet that there is a closer correlation between the rise in autism and the increase in driving. Just think of it: Autism! Automobiles! Coincidence or conspiracy?

What really gets to me are the people who go on 50,000 watt broadcast radio or television to decry the dangers of 2 watt cellular and 0.2 watt WiFi.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#2030104 - 02/09/13 09:31 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1644
Loc: northern California
Originally Posted By: chasingrainbows
One of my students is a nurse and said that people who get the flu shot are still getting the flu, so I am going to pass again this year on the flu shot. Thanks to everyone for their input--it has been very informative, intersting and helpful. smile


Got the flu shot and now have an AWFUL virus.....hating life right now! If it's not the flu then what the heck...
_________________________
Piano Teacher

Top
#2030169 - 02/09/13 11:45 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
DOnt get a flu shot, there is no point. if you get the flu shot you get a flu. and if you don't get the flu shot then you wont have the flu. and even if you do get the flu it will go away in a couple of days, so no problems.
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-150


Top
#2030172 - 02/09/13 11:48 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: adak]
catpiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/20/12
Posts: 55
Originally Posted By: adak
DOnt get a flu shot, there is no point. if you get the flu shot you get a flu. and if you don't get the flu shot then you wont have the flu. and even if you do get the flu it will go away in a couple of days, so no problems.


I don't think that's entirely accurate...

Top
#2030441 - 02/10/13 12:04 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
chasingrainbows Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1019
Loc: NJ
An fellow swimmer, (and doctor) just came back to the pool after being down from the flu for most of January - and he did in fact get the flu shot!

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >

Moderator:  Ken Knapp 
What's Hot!!
75,000 Members and Growing!
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
88 registered (AndrewJCW, angga888, AimeeO, 27 invisible), 1343 Guests and 19 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75509 Members
42 Forums
156146 Topics
2293058 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Youtube! :)
by PianoPlayer98
9 minutes 38 seconds ago
Youtube! :)
by PianoPlayer98
Today at 01:47 AM
Headphones Sennheiser MOMENTUM On-Ear
by khopin
Today at 12:54 AM
How struts define pitch variation between tunings
by Bosendorff
Yesterday at 11:40 PM
Pianist Noah Landis - Lowell, MA Sept. 6th
by Piano World
Yesterday at 06:09 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission