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#1884100 - 04/22/12 05:53 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: wr]
trigalg693 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 622
Originally Posted By: wr

I really like the "other" Mephistos a great deal, but they are late works that sound like they were written by someone else than the person who wrote the first one. And that late Liszt stuff is pretty rough going for many people - I can well imagine the shocked bewilderment of someone encountering those late Mephisto waltzes for the first time, if all they knew was the first one and some of the more popular Liszt pieces. It's a whole different world.


Do you think? I can feel something consistent about Liszt in all of his works, I feel like the other Mephistos do share a similar flavor.

Got started on Mazeppa (waving arms around is super fun), going to order B minor Sonata sheet music! I see a Hal Leonard one that has the publisher marked as Editio Musica Budapest, does anyone know if this means it's just a reprint of Budapest or what?


Edited by trigalg693 (04/22/12 05:54 AM)

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#1884105 - 04/22/12 06:25 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: trigalg693]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7791
Originally Posted By: trigalg693
Originally Posted By: wr

I really like the "other" Mephistos a great deal, but they are late works that sound like they were written by someone else than the person who wrote the first one. And that late Liszt stuff is pretty rough going for many people - I can well imagine the shocked bewilderment of someone encountering those late Mephisto waltzes for the first time, if all they knew was the first one and some of the more popular Liszt pieces. It's a whole different world.


Do you think? I can feel something consistent about Liszt in all of his works, I feel like the other Mephistos do share a similar flavor.



I exaggerated a bit - like you say, I can get something sort of "Lisztian" in all of his works. But I wonder how much of that is just because I know he wrote them, which enables me to find a commonality?

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#1894081 - 05/09/12 10:56 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
pianojosh23 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 604
A recent discovery for me has been one of Liszt's choral masterpieces, the Missa solennis zur Einweihung der Basilika in Gran (Gran Mass). Here are my two favourite movements, the Kyrie and Credo (the Credo being one of the greatest choral movements i've ever heard).





Another one is his Hungarian Coronation Mass. It is a very simple work - very little counterpoint, almost no harmonic experimentation, simple and clear choral/orchestral writing...But all that is also where its charm lies for me. Simple, light-hearted glory. Unfortunately there are no good performances on youtube.

I also got a recording of another of his better choral works - the Psalm XIII, but it didn't really reach me on first listens.


Edited by pianojosh23 (05/09/12 11:15 AM)

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#1894229 - 05/09/12 02:59 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
Tararex Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 408
Loc: Middle Georgia, USA
My favorite Ave Maria of all.

Video and sound could both be better on this, but I can't think of anyone who does this better than Kocsis.

[video:youtube]http://youtu.be/J1gV2qtb71w[/video]
_________________________

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#1894980 - 05/10/12 07:08 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
TrueMusic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/30/12
Posts: 254
Loc: San Diego, California
I have to say I mostly disliked Liszt....until I listened to his Sonata in Bm. It's just fantastic. Then I fell in love with Mephisto's Waltz. And then I heard his Am Bach Organ fugue transcription. And then I just went off the deep end. :].
One of my friends is playing the Bm sonata at his senior recital next year, I can't wait! He's presenting three sonata's, the Waldenstein, the Liszt Bm, and one more 20th century sonata by a composer I hadn't heard of till he mentioned him, I forget right now.
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Piano/Composition major.

Proud owner of a beautiful Yamaha C7.

Polish:
Liszt Petrarch Sonnet 104
Bach WTC book 1 no. 6.
Dello Joio Sonata no. 3

New:
Chopin op. 23
Bach WTC book 2 no. 20

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#1895547 - 05/11/12 11:37 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: TrueMusic]
Damon Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6114
Loc: St. Louis area
Speaking of the B minor, I stumbled across an oddity - a two piano version by Saint Saens in my collection. Of course I had to search Youtube with little hope of finding a recording, but lo and behold:

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#1895563 - 05/12/12 12:35 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
nocturne152 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 447
What an insanely successful thread!

As for my appreciation -- this is my favorite piece by Liszt performed by my favorite young pianist.

"Maiden's Wish"

Why is this piece "Chopin-Liszt"? What did Chopin do to get some credit?

_________________________
"The instrument should be your needle, and the music should be your addiction."

- Oscar Peterson

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#1895695 - 05/12/12 10:17 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: nocturne152]
Damon Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6114
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: lostaccato


Why is this piece "Chopin-Liszt"? What did Chopin do to get some credit?



It's a song by Chopin that Liszt transcribed to the piano.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1895749 - 05/12/12 01:06 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: Damon]
nocturne152 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 447
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: lostaccato


Why is this piece "Chopin-Liszt"? What did Chopin do to get some credit?



It's a song by Chopin that Liszt transcribed to the piano.


Ahh I see. It is a rather charming little song if you ask me, though I prefer the transcription. grin
_________________________
"The instrument should be your needle, and the music should be your addiction."

- Oscar Peterson

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#1896080 - 05/13/12 09:09 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: nocturne152]
pianojosh23 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 604
Originally Posted By: lostaccato
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: lostaccato


Why is this piece "Chopin-Liszt"? What did Chopin do to get some credit?



It's a song by Chopin that Liszt transcribed to the piano.


Ahh I see. It is a rather charming little song if you ask me, though I prefer the transcription. grin


Chopin's songs, while nice, are not among his best works. Liszt's transcriptions greatly improved them and turned them into lovely, nocturne-esque piano pieces - that work very well as a cycle!


Edited by pianojosh23 (05/13/12 11:51 AM)

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#1896177 - 05/13/12 01:09 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
nocturne152 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 447
Nocturne-esque?? Not "Maiden's Wish"... which pieces are you talking about?
_________________________
"The instrument should be your needle, and the music should be your addiction."

- Oscar Peterson

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#1896204 - 05/13/12 01:48 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: nocturne152]
pianojosh23 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 604
Originally Posted By: lostaccato
Nocturne-esque?? Not "Maiden's Wish"... which pieces are you talking about?


Oh sorry, my mistake. Yes, not Maiden's Wish, although that is part of the cycle. Yeah, they are six pieces in different styles. The one I know best is 'My Joys,' which is Nocturne-esque.


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#1896232 - 05/13/12 02:41 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8848
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: pianojosh23

Chopin's songs, while nice, are not among his best works.

As Charles Rosen memorably observed: Chopin clearly didn't waste any time on them.

One of many instances wherein Liszt made improvements, cf 'Danse Macabre' and the 2nd Paganini etude.
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#1896239 - 05/13/12 02:56 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
Damon Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6114
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: pianojosh23

Chopin's songs, while nice, are not among his best works. Liszt's transcriptions greatly improved them


I think all of Liszt's song transcriptions are an improvement over the source, including his own. That is of course, just my opinion. whistle
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#1896308 - 05/13/12 05:40 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: Damon]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8848
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Damon

I think all of Liszt's song transcriptions are an improvement over the source, including his own. That is of course, just my opinion.

Wow. How many of Liszt's songs do you know, and have you ever accompanied them with a singer?

I have, and almost all of those I played were beautifully written for both piano and singer.
_________________________
Jason

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#1896384 - 05/13/12 08:59 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: argerichfan]
nocturne152 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 447
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: pianojosh23

Chopin's songs, while nice, are not among his best works.

As Charles Rosen memorably observed: Chopin clearly didn't waste any time on them.


I agree. Anyone who doubts Chopin's abilities as a song writer are either ignorant or stupid. He was a musical super-genius who happened to also love the opera. I'm SURE if he wanted to put out some great songs he could have -- I don't think he cared though.
_________________________
"The instrument should be your needle, and the music should be your addiction."

- Oscar Peterson

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#1896416 - 05/13/12 09:50 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: argerichfan]
Damon Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6114
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: argerichfan

Wow. How many of Liszt's songs do you know, and have you ever accompanied them with a singer?


I know a few but it doesn't matter, I wouldn't be able to tolerate playing them with a classically trained singer, which is why the transcriptions are an improvement. (to me)
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1896430 - 05/13/12 10:21 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: nocturne152]
pianojosh23 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 604
Originally Posted By: lostaccato
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: pianojosh23

Chopin's songs, while nice, are not among his best works.

As Charles Rosen memorably observed: Chopin clearly didn't waste any time on them.


I agree. Anyone who doubts Chopin's abilities as a song writer are either ignorant or stupid. He was a musical super-genius who happened to also love the opera. I'm SURE if he wanted to put out some great songs he could have -- I don't think he cared though.


No doubt. There's no reason why he couldn't have been a great song writer.

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#1896532 - 05/14/12 03:57 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: pianojosh23

No doubt. There's no reason why he couldn't have been a great song writer.


But he wasn't. Nor was he much of an orchestrator.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1896707 - 05/14/12 12:21 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: stores]
nocturne152 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 447
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: pianojosh23

No doubt. There's no reason why he couldn't have been a great song writer.


But he wasn't. Nor was he much of an orchestrator.


*facepalm*
_________________________
"The instrument should be your needle, and the music should be your addiction."

- Oscar Peterson

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#1896834 - 05/14/12 05:23 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8848
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: pianojosh23

No doubt. There's no reason why he couldn't have been a great song writer.

With Chopin's talent he could have done anything.

A fuss is often made about Chopin's weak orchestrations in the piano concertos, but how else would the piano part be properly heard? Tausig and company attempted re-orchestrations, but then they found they had to re-write some of the piano writing so that it could project over a busier orchestration.

No solution there.
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Jason

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#1896843 - 05/14/12 05:34 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: argerichfan]
Damon Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6114
Loc: St. Louis area
Hey now, the "gush over everything Chopin wrote thread" is in the ABF. Let's keep it there, please. laugh (I'm hoping this thread title will keep Mark and Beet from adding a couple of pages of Chopin defense)
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1899703 - 05/19/12 11:40 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: Damon]
Damon Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6114
Loc: St. Louis area
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1900171 - 05/20/12 10:26 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Since this great pianist passed away early this year, I figured it would be appropriate to share these.




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#1900380 - 05/20/12 06:21 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: Orange Soda King]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8848
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Since this great pianist passed away early this year, I figured it would be appropriate to share these.


Interesting -and quite appropriate to share, thank-you!- but I just cannot love that recording. Weissenberg had a technique which must have been the envy of any pianist, but so often I get the impression of a sadistic brutality. Compared to Argerich's quick, silent, and efficient laser printer, Weissenberg sounds like a noisy ink jet printer, droplets of ink saturating the page.

IMO of course.
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Jason

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#1900385 - 05/20/12 06:25 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Of course, Argerich is my favorite Liszt B Minor, but she's not the only recording I'll love.

Ozan Marsh has a great one, actually.

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#1901329 - 05/22/12 02:45 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
pianojosh23 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 604
I've discovered a new solo piano piece by Liszt.

Liszt's Oratorio 'Die Legende von der Heiligen Elisabeth' is generally considered to be one of Liszt's weaker large scale works, and i've found it quite dull the first couple times i've listened to it - despite some glorious moments. Of course, i'm going to withold judgement there because it is highly programmatic and i've not listened to it with that in mind, and I certainly haven't come close to digested all 2-3 hours of it.

The orchestral opening is surely one of the highlights of the Oratorio.



Liszt, in his typically masterful manner, transcribed this for the piano. To my ears, the result is a gorgeous solo piano piece that deserves to be performed with regularity.






Edited by pianojosh23 (05/22/12 05:32 PM)

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#1901543 - 05/22/12 10:20 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
Damon Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6114
Loc: St. Louis area
Gorgeous transcription performed by the inimitable Cyprien Katsaris.

_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1901556 - 05/22/12 10:40 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: argerichfan]
Cheeto717 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 696
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: pianojosh23

No doubt. There's no reason why he couldn't have been a great song writer.

With Chopin's talent he could have done anything.

A fuss is often made about Chopin's weak orchestrations in the piano concertos, but how else would the piano part be properly heard? Tausig and company attempted re-orchestrations, but then they found they had to re-write some of the piano writing so that it could project over a busier orchestration.

No solution there.


I've recently bought Krystian Zimerman's recording of him performing and conducting the Chopin piano concertos. His interpretation of the orchestra part turns it into a new piece for me. I'd reccomend you take a listen
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#1903181 - 05/25/12 09:20 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
Damon Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6114
Loc: St. Louis area
Browsing youtube, I ran across a midi version of Liszt's Toccata in Am that was accurate and....dreadful. Here is Mark Salman playing the piece. Much, much much better. (I believe this is Gooddogs teacher, is it not?)

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