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#2012322 - 01/10/13 03:44 PM Vintage D - general
EO3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 142
As it's widely recognized here, I think we could benefit from main topic where to post opinions/questions/settings/ etc. about Vintage D.

My copy arrived today and I can feel it will be a good instrument once properly set up.

One thing for now - volume levels. If I turn it loud enough, it sort of distorts (as hardware I'm using Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 USB, midi connection). As the software itself allows to turn the volume knob, shouldn't it be OK even turned at max levels without distortion?

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#2012398 - 01/10/13 06:02 PM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3835
Loc: North Carolina
I have that problem, too. It's quite possible (and easy) to overdrive and get distortion.

The levels are adjustable in multiple places.

1. Each instrument in Kontakt has its own level control.
2. The Kontakt console has a master level control (but it's hidden until you click the Output icon at the top of the window.)
3. Your Focusrite has a level control, I presume.
4. Your amplifier has a volume control.

If any one or more of these is set too high you can reach levels that distort ... either within that piece of equipment, or in the next equipment in the chain.

So roll back the levels to get proper results.

Whichever control you deem to be the one you use as your everyday volume control (which, for me, would be the amplifier's volume control) ... turn it up fairly high, and then bring down the levels in the other, upstream components to produce a very loud/maximum-desired, but undistorted output. Then roll back the chosen volume control to suit your needs.

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#2012460 - 01/10/13 08:14 PM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
Bane Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 91
Loc: USA
Good info, Macmacmac. I have a similar problem with my audio interface, I think it's probably a screwed-up headphone amp. If Mac's advice doesn't help you might consider getting your Focusrite unit checked out.
_________________________
www.soundcloud.com/btrailblazer

Cable-Nelson upright piano, Casio WK-200, Mackie MR5MK2 monitors, Cubase Artist 7, Steinberg's The Grand 3, Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 interface, Asus R500a-RS52 Windows 8, i5-3230M 2.6 gHz, 6GB RAM, 750GB HD (5400RPM)

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#2012716 - 01/11/13 10:48 AM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
EO3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 142
But I find it strange why it distorts as it's really not the case of any music I play-back (I can turn the volume really really high without any sort of distortion when just play-back some music).

But the same thing was the case also when I recorded piano via line-in directly from keyboard. I really hope it's not the case that something is wrong via Focusrite, because check-up here is not available.

Update: For playability volume issues are resolved really by turning up volume on Focusrite interface. Not sure yet about recording specs, etc. , but will inspect that later.

Other impressions - it defo beats inbuilt roland fp7f piano sound and realistic acoustic piano sound CAN be achieved.
It's also more difficult to control (and that's a good thing) compared when playing with fp7f inbuilt sounds, because behaving more closer like an acoustic piano does. It's less "safe" in that regard, easier to make mistakes, but also opportunity for a great dynamic range and real sound.

Would be nice to also hear some of the other players best setting suggestions.


Edited by EO3 (01/11/13 11:05 AM)

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#2013342 - 01/12/13 10:13 AM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
EO3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 142
Also one thing - velocity. How to keep balance with keyboards and Vintage D setting velocity levels to get the optimal balance. Any setting suggestions?

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#2013465 - 01/12/13 02:07 PM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
enzo.sandrolini Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 275
Loc: Europe - France
Originally Posted By: EO3
Also one thing - velocity. How to keep balance with keyboards and Vintage D setting velocity levels to get the optimal balance. Any setting suggestions?

I have some question.
As I use Vintage with my NU1 and the keyboard action is quite different from native one when I use Vintage D
But no way to get the same feeling as the native one (that I prefer as I find it more "realistic")...I have tried several velocity tuning, but the it look like as the dynamic range is narrowed with Vintage D...strange
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#2013486 - 01/12/13 02:44 PM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3835
Loc: North Carolina
The Vintage D has a dynamic range adjustment on the main screen. Also, the apparent dynamic range can be influenced by the velocity curve. In my case, the piano cannot achieve velocities higher than about 108. So the Vintage D will never see input velocities from 109 to 127 ... unless I adjust the velocity curve to hit 127 out when the input is 108. Here's what I'm using now:


It's unfortunate that it's so difficult to set the velocity curve in Vintage D. It's much easier in Pianoteq.

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#2013491 - 01/12/13 02:52 PM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: MacMacMac]
enzo.sandrolini Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 275
Loc: Europe - France
Hello MacMacMac
I also played with these setting but got no really satisfying results
Did you try the "learn" function ?
And if your piano cannot go further than 108, why did not you set the max value to 109 (127 is shown in your screenshot)

Thanks for your help

Cheers,
_________________________
Music is a lifestyle

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#2013527 - 01/12/13 03:48 PM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3835
Loc: North Carolina
The max knob controls the maximum OUTPUT velocity. I want to be able to achieve full velocity, so I leave that at its default value of 127.

I wanted to change the transfer function (the velocity curve) so that the piano's max output of 108 (which is the INPUT here) gets shifted up to 127 OUTPUT. Refer to the chart portion of the picture.

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#2015943 - 01/17/13 06:04 AM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
EO3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 142
Yup, velocity is main problem. Without figuring it out, piano doesn't respond naturally.

Another thing - do you know how easly set up Vintage D as vst and to record from it? I want to set up it with Ableton Live Lite.

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#2015957 - 01/17/13 06:48 AM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
Kos Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: EO3
Yup, velocity is main problem. Without figuring it out, piano doesn't respond naturally.

I don't know about that. I spent hours (literally) trying different velocity curves, only to find the default one to be the most adequate and comfortable.
_________________________
"There is nothing to piano playing besides producing the appropriate velocities on the appropriate keys at the appropriate time" (c) qvfarns

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#2015965 - 01/17/13 07:13 AM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: Kos]
EO3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 142
Originally Posted By: Kos

I don't know about that. I spent hours (literally) trying different velocity curves, only to find the default one to be the most adequate and comfortable.


What kind of keyboard do You use? The thing is that with FP7F (I don't know if it applies to every keyboard) velocity set in FP7F also affects the sound in Vintage D.

So, there are 2 places where to set velocity - Vintage D + FP7F key touch settings. Of course, I could go without touching FP7F key touch, but then keyboard is too light...

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#2015969 - 01/17/13 07:24 AM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9342
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Interesting discussion.
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2015980 - 01/17/13 07:54 AM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
Kos Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: EO3

What kind of keyboard do You use?

CLP430

Originally Posted By: EO3
The thing is that with FP7F (I don't know if it applies to every keyboard) velocity set in FP7F also affects the sound in Vintage D.

Mine does too, but since Clavinova only has 3 velocity settings, I use the "Normal" one and it's working for me.
_________________________
"There is nothing to piano playing besides producing the appropriate velocities on the appropriate keys at the appropriate time" (c) qvfarns

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#2015987 - 01/17/13 08:06 AM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3835
Loc: North Carolina
I know that the Clavinova's velocity setting alters the velocity curve with respect to the internally produced sounds.

But does it affect the velocity values in the output MIDI stream?

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#2015990 - 01/17/13 08:18 AM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: MacMacMac]
Kos Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac

But does it affect the velocity values in the output MIDI stream?

It does.


Edited by Kos (01/17/13 08:18 AM)
_________________________
"There is nothing to piano playing besides producing the appropriate velocities on the appropriate keys at the appropriate time" (c) qvfarns

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#2016062 - 01/17/13 11:02 AM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3835
Loc: North Carolina
Thanks. So it's a good thing I always leave the piano in the middle setting. That way all of the alterations are handled in Kontakt.

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#2016065 - 01/17/13 11:10 AM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
EO3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 142
Yeah, but the middle setting might not be good enough. In FP7F case I find middle setting (0) too light for key touch.

Another question - when I play back MIDI from FP7F Vintage D doesn't react (doesn't play it). Also I haven't found how exactly I can play midi files that I have on computer in Vintage D. Any tips? Thanks.

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#2016097 - 01/17/13 12:08 PM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3835
Loc: North Carolina
To play MIDI files (on the computer) through a Kontakt-based instrument, I use Midi Player or Notation. Both are available online.

You'll also need to install Midi Yoke. Run it, and create at least one MIDI port. In this sample, I created 4 ports.


============================================================

Here's Midi Player.



And here's its MIDI configuration window. I have it sending output to MIDI Yoke port 1, which was created in Midi Yoke, above.


============================================================

Here's Notation.



And here's its MIDI configuration window. I have it sending output to MIDI Yoke port 1, which was created in Midi Yoke, above.


============================================================

Finally, in Kontakt, click the options button and set up the MIDI configuration.
Here I have it accepting input from my Presonus MIDI interface (to play the piano),
and from MIDI Yoke port 1 (to play MIDI files from Midi Player or from Notation).


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#2016331 - 01/17/13 08:45 PM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 473
That seems like an awful lot of trouble to play a MIDI file.

An alternative is to drag & drop the MIDI file into a DAW and assign the sound source.

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#2016362 - 01/17/13 09:33 PM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
leokatero Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/17/13
Posts: 6
Loc: Banned
As I use Vintage with my NU1 and the keyboard action is quite different from native one when I use Vintage D
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#2016377 - 01/17/13 10:00 PM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: o0Ampy0o]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3835
Loc: North Carolina
I don't have a DAW. I just play piano.

Anyway, the setup of these MIDI players is no different than that of any MIDI software.

You simply select the MIDI output destination. And for that output MIDI Yoke provides the routing.

So how is it that setting the output on a config screen is a lot of trouble? smile
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
That seems like an awful lot of trouble to play a MIDI file. An alternative is to drag & drop the MIDI file into a DAW and assign the sound source.

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#2016388 - 01/17/13 10:13 PM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2217
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Remember, the MIDI Yoke thing only has to be installed and configured once. Once it's configured, I believe every time you fire up the MIDI player, it will remember the last used MIDI device (MIDI Yoke), and similarly, the Kontakt Player will also remember it's settings. I use a different MIDI loopback driver called LoopBe1, and this is how it all works for me. (and LoopBe1 starts automatically when I boot the system, too)

Greg.

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#2016405 - 01/17/13 10:58 PM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 473
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
To play MIDI files (on the computer) through a Kontakt-based instrument, I use Midi Player or Notation......You'll also need to install Midi Yoke. Run it, and create at least one MIDI port.
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
...how is it that setting the output on a config screen is a lot of trouble? smile
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
That seems like an awful lot of trouble to play a MIDI file. An alternative is to drag & drop the MIDI file into a DAW and assign the sound source.

I see now that you were not just showing how to play a MIDI file as your opening line of text suggested but also showing how to setup each program.

I did not have to manually create a MIDI port and didn't have to install two programs (Yoke and Player).

I have Cubase and Abelton Live which did involve selecting the MIDI output and input devices during initial setup. I really did not even have to install a DAW because one installed with the operating system OS X.

Regardless of which I choose now I just open them and drop a MIDI file which automatically creates a track. Then I assign a sound source and am ready to just play or record. I have gone a step further and have project files that I use as templates for each software plug-in that I might use by itself like a Vintage D. I just open the project and begin playing after the samples load into RAM, or in this case I would drop a MIDI file into a project and play it.

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#2016526 - 01/18/13 05:10 AM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
EO3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 142
So basically I should be able to do everything within DAW (I have Ableton Live Lite 8) when I set Vintage D up as VST plug-in there. But at the moment I haven't figured out how to to that just yet.

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#2016764 - 01/18/13 02:46 PM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 473
Correct.

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#2017121 - 01/19/13 07:56 AM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
EO3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 142
OK, so maybe someone can help me out with this.

I tried to open Vintage D library (.nkl file) in Ableton Live, and got the following message:

"The sampler instrument is not available. The product Sampler is required to go beyond this limitation. See the User Account/Licence preferences...blalala)"

I went to that preference setting and there it shows: Live version: Ableton Lite 8 Focusrite Novation Edition.

Software instruments: none
Sampled instruments: none

I hope this doesn't mean that my ableton version is limited so I can't use any instruments...


Edited by EO3 (01/19/13 07:59 AM)

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#2017236 - 01/19/13 12:36 PM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
Gigantoad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 336
You need to load the Kontakt VST in Ableton and then inside Kontakt you can load the Vitnage D library. Ableton has no concept about nkl files.

Watch this for the general procedure of loading a VST inside Ableton: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muhFI751iBo

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#2017238 - 01/19/13 12:39 PM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
EO3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 142
Thanks a lot ! I'm sure it will work now. smile

Update: I understand now how to activate but the problem is that in Plug-in Devices browser I have just empty slot, no Activate button or any folders... So, this is strange.

I'll probably try to contact Ableton in this regard, but if anyone has some tips, go ahead.

New update: OK, I somehow activated that button, but now the problem is with "custom folder" - what I need to set it to? I tried before Vintage D, now with Kontakt (leading to kontakt .exe file, because there's no other files I'm finding), but nothing shows up.

Victory! I cracked that nut! :)))


Edited by EO3 (01/19/13 01:47 PM)

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#2017276 - 01/19/13 01:54 PM Re: Vintage D - general [Re: EO3]
EO3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 142
OK, so now I have Kontakt in Ableton. But... when I click on that Vintage D icon when kontakt opens (from ableton) , nothing happens. I can just click and click, but Vintage D doesn't load.
Are there other preferences I need to check?

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