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Thank Mark,what makes this Japanese man very clear for me. I do it too, just hold the hammer lever to the left to avoid flexure pins. However, until I have get a clean unison in ending tone.
That is the hardest part of any teaching, particularly when the student has some sort of hidden attachment to doing it the hard way.
Max's entire life is really testing methods "in their own skin." I dare to hope that his skin is so callous that mistakes will the turn in the things for work of his brain
Honestly Max if you are willing to admit to having a lot of free time, then I am of the opinion the free time would be well spent translating the instructional materials for yourself.
Along with that I note tools that have been sent to you are not being used in any of the videos you present here.
Both the course and the tools were sent over to help you learn.
This would help greatly with your tuning education.
The hammer hold on left side is to LOWER pitch if necessary (for instance 442 to 440) There the pin push on the most important part of the hole , crushing the wood with pressure on the part supposed to brake the tuning pin (not fully but yet a little on the right side of the tuning "bed")
So to me, not excellent for the pinblock, also I understand why ;
You tune the treble too low (plucking strings make you hear more partials and the pitch appreciation is then false if compared with normal playing)
The tuning pins are not set so this will move when piano is played (possibly all strings move more or less the same so it not noticed immediiately)
You last unison is not that bad, however...
You may learn FIRST a standard technique an Understand WHY it is employed. (understand pin setting for instance)
Afterthat if something else work for you and you know what you are doing no problem, I have seen numerous fancy techniques with tuning hammer, but seem to notice that the best tuners use normalized simple techniques for decades with excellent results.
For instance you can have a plane flying with the tail on the front, but it will be difficult to drive it finely...
Ps why do you use the sustain pedal to show intervals ?
Play similar 4ths more slowly, and 5ths , next time, some of them are not bad certainly.
Last edited by Kamin; 01/23/1301:22 AM.
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Thank Mark,what makes this Japanese man very clear for me. I do it too, just hold the hammer lever to the left to avoid flexure pins. However, until I have get a clean unison in ending tone.
Max if you "do it too but hold the hammer to the left" you DONT do it too...
Do it too mean do as it is shown, you will find the reasons why later.
Pin flex more with lever at 9:00 pin flex less with lever at 12-14:00
But hammer easier to move at 9:00 (vertical piano) because the hole is free of pression. More difficult to set the pin firmly and precisely but easier to raise the note an less wear on the hole.
But EXTREME flex of the pin when you push to set it and a little brutal then...
With lever at 13:00 you naturally lighten the pressure when turning, but beforethen you may LEARN to PERCEIVE where is the rotary plane of the tuning pin so to push the right amount on the lever without flexing the pin too much.
So FIRST one learn to "turn" the lever in perfect rotary plane of the pin then LATER one learn to use the pin springiness to have an easier motion.
Last edited by Kamin; 01/23/1301:55 AM.
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Thank Mark,what makes this Japanese man very clear for me. I do it too, just hold the hammer lever to the left to avoid flexure pins. However, until I have get a clean unison in ending tone.
But hammer easier to move at 9:00 (vertical piano) because the hole is free of pression. More difficult to set the pin firmly and precisely but easier to raise the note an less wear on the hole.
But EXTREME flex of the pin when you push to set it and a little brutal then...
Thank you for understanding the method 9-12. However I think that for grand piano this works also. Piano pin tuning technique when we set the tuning hammer handle to the left and screw clockwise from 9 to 12. This method alows us to leave the wood bush bottom and pin hole upper part safe. While the classical method disintegrates them.
Max. Do you understand that 9 O'clock on an upright is the exact opposite of the 9 O'clock that you are using on the grand in terms of how the lever acts on the pin and string??.
You have prematurely published your rather odd findings on tuning lever angles for your teaching videos so it seems you have developed a vested interest in your theories. Your two latest videos are mutually contradictory on this hammer angle point. Quite frankly, it betrays that you have no real grasp of what you are advocating.
The note that you used to demonstrate your technique went wildly out of tune in seconds after you 'tuned' it without you even playing it. We all heard it at the end of the Yamaha grand video yet you seemed blissfully unaware of this. We watched you tune it and just knew it wouldnt stay there. It all demonstrates conclusively that your theories and the way you put them into practice simply do not work. None of this adds to your credibility, You are misleading the 'young Russian tuners' you speak of, many of whom must have found this thread by now.
While you have made some improvement, it counts for nothing because most of it goes back out of tune immediately.
This thread is not an entire waste of time. Others have learned a lot through this thread because of your persistence in demonstrating the way not to do what we are saying and how to do it the hard way.
I know of one new tuner who is tuning for a major conservatory now. (anybody who wants to become a solid tuner would do well to put in some time at a music department). He is doing a great job and has learned to tune pianos to that level in far less than the time you have been posting here.
For my part, I am gaining an understanding of and compassion towards certain aspects of those with learning disabilities.
Last edited by rxd; 01/23/1304:07 PM.
Amanda Reckonwith Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England. "in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.
After reading your postings on this board, I wonder what you are doing and what your goals are. So far it seems that you have not made any noticeable progress. Your tunings are bad, you have not shown a temperament, the choirs are out of tune, you keep plucking the strings, you use your homemade tools.
I am aware of the problem of not having a mentor, but people here have shown links to many good videos.
The course you got from Dan Silverwood is as close you can come to a mentor, and I sent you the tuning tools.
We actually did send you some very good stuff by which you should have been able to do quite some progress! Not to mention the value of this to a total cost of about 2000 USD.
And what do you spend your time on? Posting on the forum all day long telling us you have lots of free time. So lots of free time, but no time to learn properly.
The course you got from Dan Silverwood is as close you can come to a mentor, and I sent you the tuning tools.....
We actually did send you some very good stuff by which you should have been able to do quite some progress! Not to mention the value of this to a total cost of about 2000 USD......
I wish somebody would send me $2,000 of tuning education and tools! I'd do it exactly the way I was told if somebody invested in me like that.
Max, I think it's time you abandoned your own theories and just spend some time doing things exactly as you are told. Just consider it an experiment where you can learn something by just copying the masters on this forum. Even if you don't understand the method you are using or totally disagree with it, just do it anyway. Try it for 2 months and see where it leads you. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the results.
Hello Max, After reading your postings on this board, I wonder what you are doing and what your goals are. So far it seems that you have not made any noticeable progress. Your tunings are bad, you have not shown a temperament, the choirs are out of tune, you keep plucking the strings, you use your homemade tools. I am aware of the problem of not having a mentor, but people here have shown links to many good videos. The course you got from Dan Silverwood is as close you can come to a mentor, and I sent you the tuning tools. We actually did send you some very good stuff by which you should have been able to do quite some progress! Not to mention the value of this to a total cost of about 2000 USD. And what do you spend your time on? Posting on the forum all day long telling us you have lots of free time. So lots of free time, but no time to learn properly.
Yes, it was a considerable investment in Max’s future success.
I could send the DVD’s once again but there is no guarantee they will make it a second time, as they did not make it the first time. There is no way to disguise the package as customs require a description of the contents.
Disappointing to not witness more in the way of improved results and development from Max up to this point.
That is a good question pianolive. I am wondering where Max would see himself 2 years from now or 5 years from now.
Originally Posted by ando
Max, I think it's time you abandoned your own theories and just spend some time doing things exactly as you are told. Just consider it an experiment where you can learn something by just copying the masters on this forum. Even if you don't understand the method you are using or totally disagree with it, just do it anyway. Try it for 2 months and see where it leads you. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the results.
Exactly the point. We need cooperation from Max if he is to develop the proper skill set.
Not to mention the value of this to a total cost of about 2000 USD.
pianolive,thank you for sending tools. I am very sorry that it was not able to help me to learn the subject tuning of the piano. (Ðе в ÐºÐ¾Ð½Ñ ÐºÐ¾Ñ€Ð¼) "Not in horse feed"
Max. Do you understand that 9 O'clock on an upright is the exact opposite of the 9 O'clock that you are using on the grand in terms of how the lever acts on the pin and string??. Quite frankly, it betrays that you have no real grasp of what you are advocating.
rxd, perhaps you do not quite understood my idea about using the handle of any hammer (T-bar L-Hammer) positioned only a left. The basis is a idea to completely eliminate the bending pins. A pin works only as a rotate moment. This is possible only when the position of the handle is located left and it's moves only (from 9 by 12) up. This statement is based on the laws of physics. It is fair to configure as grands, and to the verticals. Maybe my explanation will be more apparent here. A clip translated into English.
if tuning grand need handle right from 15 to 6 down.
The course you got from Dan Silverwood is as close you can come to a mentor, and I sent you the tuning tools.....
We actually did send you some very good stuff by which you should have been able to do quite some progress! Not to mention the value of this to a total cost of about 2000 USD......
Even if you don't understand the method you are using or totally disagree with it, just do it anyway. Try it for 2 months and see where it leads you. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the results.
This method was born in my head no as the result of my own ambitions. I do not want its usefulness. I made ​​use of this method because stark reality condition pinblock piano, which I'm tuning is very bad. If I did not use this method, I could not save more than 30 oldest badly worn piano. The result is positive, I use this with the beginning of summer. Even if the pin is almost dangled in the hole of pinblock,I was able to fix it's dead without cardboard shim.
Here is a link to a recording I made of a temperament I set recently on 7' grand in a high school theater. There is not temperament strip in the piano - in other words all unisons are open.
This is the type of recording that will help us better evaluate how you are doing with your tuning. Play thirds, and 6ths and 10ths. Chromatic progressions can tell us a lot about the smoothness of a tuning.
This is the type of recording that will help us better evaluate how you are doing with your tuning. Play thirds, and 6ths and 10ths. Chromatic progressions can tell us a lot about the smoothness of a tuning.
Thank,rysowers.I always play thirds, 4 and 5 after end of tuning . Chromatic gamma is not for me usefully. I don't hear important change when I'm play it's Regards,
Max believe that the left lever is solution for blocking the pin when it does not hold.
This method will oblige to repair sooner, a tired pin will be MORE firm with the lever in 12:00 13:00 position. But it have to be understood well.
Just an illusion, and Max believe he is Master tuner and talk and talk then do fancy things with talk and talk
Max still is afraid of the strings and does not listen the real tone because it is too harsh and too noisy. Use foam in your ears if this is the problem
It is normal when you begin to learn but signal you not learning fast enough.
Learn use normal methods then it will begin to be better.
Tune only vertical pianos for the moment, you put the grand at risk, my opinion..
Sorry to have to say but it is exhausting ...
I tested left hammer FOR Verticals ONLY. NO MUCH CONTROL in my opinion. the pin seem to be set but it is light setting
Last edited by Olek; 01/24/1304:51 AM.
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
