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#2020703 - 01/24/13 08:27 PM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: voxpops]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 473
Originally Posted By: voxpops
As a side note, I do think that expectations were built to almost fever pitch. Clever marketing, certainly, but in a competitive marketplace you need to exceed expectations, not create a sense of deflation, however slight.

So at this point do you think the buzz has created more disappointment than constructive awareness that leads to sales? (please say what you think and don't answer with "only time will tell" smile )

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#2020710 - 01/24/13 08:35 PM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: o0Ampy0o]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
Originally Posted By: voxpops
As a side note, I do think that expectations were built to almost fever pitch. Clever marketing, certainly, but in a competitive marketplace you need to exceed expectations, not create a sense of deflation, however slight.

So at this point do you think the buzz has created more disappointment than constructive awareness that leads to sales? (please say what you think and don't answer with "only time will tell" smile )

I actually don't know what balance of positive/negative responses have been prompted, but I do know that the teasers led a lot of people to expect a bit more than a nice action in a shiny box with some predetermined velocity curves. I think it would have been better to underplay the potential (although I admit that, as it turns out, there wasn't a lot to underplay with the VPC).

Having said that, I think that there is a market for a really good action geared towards VSTs. The minimalist approach may also have merit. But whether there are enough people wanting to spend the best part of $2k before getting to sound generation and reproduction, I just don't know.


Edited by voxpops (01/24/13 08:43 PM)
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2020735 - 01/24/13 09:03 PM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: davinwv]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3195
For people who love the feel of the MP10 but prefer a VST's sound, who wish they didn't have to "pay for" all the sounds they don't need in the MP-10 just to get its action, this saves them $650. At least for now, Kawai benefits from the fact computer-based players may prefer the "value" of just paying for what they need, and there are few competitors in this market. Nothing from Yamaha, and only a low-end action from Roland.

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#2020740 - 01/24/13 09:10 PM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: anotherscott]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
For people who love the feel of the MP10 but prefer a VST's sound, who wish they didn't have to "pay for" all the sounds they don't need in the MP-10 just to get its action, this saves them $650. At least for now, Kawai benefits from the fact computer-based players may prefer the "value" of just paying for what they need, and there are few competitors in this market. Nothing from Yamaha, and only a low-end action from Roland.

That's true - just so long as they don't need any onboard controls at all. I think that's where the "value" equation starts to tilt a little. The $650 doesn't just pay for sounds - there's quite a lot of additional hardware involved.

But it is filling a niche that, as you point out, other manufacturers are ignoring.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2020753 - 01/24/13 09:30 PM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: davinwv]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9064
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello chaps, I've spent the morning reading through the various forums, gauging the community's reaction to the VPC1.

Evidently, our latest board has divided opinions. Some love it, some hate it, other's aren't so sure. 'Fair price for the quality', 'Too expensive without a built-in computer'...'Why is there no software included', 'I'm glad they didn't bundle the software'...'No pitchbend/mod wheel is a deal breaker', 'I never use the pitchbend when playing piano anyway', etc.

I think it's worth pointing out that the VPC1 doesn't replace anything - it simply augments Kawai's existing range of products, while providing us with a strong foothold into what is undoubtedly a growing market. There's still the ES7, MP6, and MP10 - all of which will continue to offer great overall packages in the market segments they occupy. However, now we also have a dedicated board for folks that require a professional quality 88-key controller purely for virtual pianos.

As I posted on another forum, unfortunately there were a few last minute hiccups with the website, so we have decided to postpone the opening by a few days to ensure that everything is working as it should. In the meantime, I'll obviously be monitoring this thread, and trying to respond to queries that are not addressed in the information that's already out there.

Many thanks for all your feedback - both good and bad.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2020767 - 01/24/13 09:55 PM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: Kawai James]
HisKidd Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 198
Loc: AL/USA
James...
Did you take any pictures with your camera? The only thing visual to see are the still shots at facebook and on the website. I'm sure we would all like to see the total package. When can we expect to be able to google a demo? I think there are a number of people who want to see this board more closely. Do you have any influence in getting the owner's manual active? It is listed, but will not presently open. That in itself would tell us so much more. Timeline for further information, videos, etc.? Can you, yourself, post here in the forums a more detailed description with the important specs, pictures, video, anything?
Many Thanks,
H.K.
_________________________
Keyboards are the best therapy I know of...
______________________________________________
Kawai MP6 stage piano
DCM CX-17 Monitors
Sennheiser HD 205, DJ series, headset

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#2020787 - 01/24/13 10:33 PM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3195
Originally Posted By: voxpops
The $650 doesn't just pay for sounds - there's quite a lot of additional hardware involved.

Right, but most of it is there for the built in sounds.

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#2020810 - 01/24/13 11:37 PM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: anotherscott]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3562
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Between the weight and the need for the computer, I see it more as a home board than a gigging board. In a home studio, no matter how good the weighted 88 is, if I'm playing synth, I also want an unweighted board, and that's where I care about having pitch and mod wheels. So actually, no, I wouldn't miss them on the VPC at all.


I actually dislike unweighted boards for any style of playing or sounds, so that's why I was really bummed out that the VPC didn't come with the mod controls. It could have been a one stop solution for my studio. Oh well, I guess the Roland A88 or something makes more sense now.

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#2020814 - 01/24/13 11:42 PM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: ando]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3195
Originally Posted By: ando
Oh well, I guess the Roland A88 or something makes more sense now.

I'd look at the Casio PX-5S.

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#2020815 - 01/24/13 11:46 PM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: HisKidd]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9064
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: HisKidd
Did you take any pictures with your camera?


Yes, I previously posted some shots with my Nord Electro a few weeks ago. However, I'm reluctant to post too many amateur snaps - especially when we have professionally photographed images ready for the website.

Originally Posted By: HisKidd
The only thing visual to see are the still shots at facebook and on the website. I'm sure we would all like to see the total package.


Have you seen the multi-angle product images on the Kraft website?
In addition to this, I posted the following image showing the extent of the curve on the top surface.



Originally Posted By: HisKidd
When can we expect to be able to google a demo?


To clarify, do you mean a product demonstration video demo on YouTube?
These videos are typically produced by Kawai Europe and Kawai America, however I do not know if such a video is planned for the VPC1.

Originally Posted By: HisKidd
I think there are a number of people who want to see this board more closely.


I understand. Well, I'm hopeful that some NAMM videos will begin to circulate on YouTube in the coming days, and if anyone shoots footage of the Kawai or Synthogy booths, you'll probably see the VPC1 in action.

Originally Posted By: HisKidd
Do you have any influence in getting the owner's manual active? It is listed, but will not presently open. That in itself would tell us so much more.


Yes, I intend to upload the owner's manual PDF later this afternoon. Please note that the documentation itself is not terribly detailed (just a few pages for each language), nor did I have a great deal of involvement in its creation due to other tasks.

Originally Posted By: HisKidd
Timeline for further information, videos, etc.?


As soon as possible, I hope.

Originally Posted By: HisKidd
Can you, yourself, post here in the forums a more detailed description with the important specs, pictures, video, anything?


I wrote the VPC1 product overview document that is used by distributors and retailers. This explanation is currently used on the Kraft website. Of course, there's lots of information and images that I could post, however this has been prepared for the website, so I'd much rather wait and do things properly.

It's perhaps worth noting that Kawai (America) have also unveiled new ranges of acoustic and digital pianos at NAMM, however it appears that the news has yet to fully circulate. Relatively speaking, the amount of information about the VPC1 that's already out there is actually pretty good.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2020818 - 01/25/13 12:04 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: Kawai James]
HisKidd Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 198
Loc: AL/USA
James...
The Kraft website is most helpful showing several different angle shots of the board, and giving the specs. The shots of the software interface were also nice.
Though I had googled "Kawai VPC" throughout the day, I was not aware that the Kraft website had this info. This is more than enough until further details surface.
Thanks also for loading the PDF for the owner's manual. I'm sure that many will want to read all about the VPC. It is indeed a beautiful board. I'll be interested to follow it's reception. Thanks, James, for all you do!
Regards,
H.K. cool
_________________________
Keyboards are the best therapy I know of...
______________________________________________
Kawai MP6 stage piano
DCM CX-17 Monitors
Sennheiser HD 205, DJ series, headset

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#2020843 - 01/25/13 12:54 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: davinwv]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9064
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
HisKidd, no problem, happy to help.

The owner's manual has been uploaded to the Kawai Japan 'Worldwide' site, and the product overview is available from the url below:

http://www.kawai.co.jp/worldwide/vpc/press/kawai_vpc1_product_overview.pdf

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2020847 - 01/25/13 01:17 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: davinwv]
thercman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 126
Loc: Spokane WA, United States
Great info James! Thanks!
Does the associated software only work with PC? That is what I am getting from the reading...
_________________________
NP2, Arturia Laboratory 61

Addictive Keys, Kawai EX Pro
Heil PR-40 Mic, Allen & Heath Mixer, Yamaha HS80

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#2020848 - 01/25/13 01:19 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: davinwv]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 787
How curved is that top? That is the only thing I potentially have issue with. I don't mind the lack of controllers as long as I can rest a controller on top.

Personally, I think a dedicated piano controller is great. Can't wait to try one.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#2020862 - 01/25/13 02:00 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: Kawai James]
HisKidd Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 198
Loc: AL/USA
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
HisKidd, no problem, happy to help.

The owner's manual has been uploaded to the Kawai Japan 'Worldwide' site, and the product overview is available from the url below:

http://www.kawai.co.jp/worldwide/vpc/press/kawai_vpc1_product_overview.pdf

Kind regards,
James
x


James...
I just went to the worldwide site and read the owner's manual. I was both disappointed and astonished to see that the VPC editor and Kawai USB driver are not compatible with Mac OS. Am I right in understanding then, that this board will interface with a Mac computer and the proprietary software included within the VST's (Synthogy; Galaxy; Native Instruments; etc.)? And, conversely, the VPC editor and the Kawai USB driver (and therefore all approved "Touch Curves," and other VPC editor tweaking features) unavailable to the Mac user?
Is a software update to the VPC to make the editor compatible with Mac in the works?
Thanks...
H.K.
_________________________
Keyboards are the best therapy I know of...
______________________________________________
Kawai MP6 stage piano
DCM CX-17 Monitors
Sennheiser HD 205, DJ series, headset

Top
#2020864 - 01/25/13 02:02 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: HisKidd]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 787
Originally Posted By: HisKidd
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
HisKidd, no problem, happy to help.

The owner's manual has been uploaded to the Kawai Japan 'Worldwide' site, and the product overview is available from the url below:

http://www.kawai.co.jp/worldwide/vpc/press/kawai_vpc1_product_overview.pdf

Kind regards,
James
x


James...
I just went to the worldwide site and read the owner's manual. I was both disappointed and astonished to see that the VPC editor and Kawai USB driver are not compatible with Mac OS. Am I right in understanding then, that this board will interface with a Mac computer and the proprietary software included within the VST's (Synthogy; Galaxy; Native Instruments; etc.)? And, conversely, the VPC editor and the Kawai USB driver (and therefore all approved "Touch Curves," and other VPC editor tweaking features) unavailable to the Mac user?
Is a software update to the VPC to make the editor compatible with Mac in the works?
Thanks...
H.K.


I hope this isn't the case.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#2020867 - 01/25/13 02:12 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: davinwv]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9064
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
The following is an extract from the 'Q&A' document prepared for the website:

Quote:
6. VPC Editor software/preset memories

Q. What is the VPC Editor software?
A. The VPC Editor is a Windows application that allows touch curves to be created and adjusted by users and developers. This software also allows individual key velocity offset adjustments and advanced MIDI routing to be specified, then stored to one of the VPC1’s five internal preset memories.

Q. What is the purpose of the VPC1’s internal preset memories?
A. The VPC1’s five internal preset memories allow different setups to be recalled without requiring a computer.

By default, these memories contain ‘Approved Touch Curves’ for different virtual piano packages, however by using the VPC Editor, it is also possible to adjust additional settings, such as key velocity offsets and MIDI routing, as noted above.


Q. Does the VPC Editor support Mac OS?
A. No, the VPC Editor does not currently support Mac OS.

Q. I’m a Mac user – does this mean that I cannot use the VPC1?
A. No, the VPC1 will still perform beautifully as a virtual piano controller with your Mac – just like the MP10, MP6, and other Kawai digital pianos. Moreover, you can still take advantage of the pre-loaded ‘Approved Touch Curves’ by selecting the desired memory from the VPC1 itself.

However, it will not be possible to make changes to internal touch curves, velocity offsets, or adjust the VPC1’s advanced MIDI settings.


I hope this answers your queries regarding the editor and Mac compatibility. Once again, my apologies for the delay with getting the website only.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2020868 - 01/25/13 02:13 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: Kawai James]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Thanks, could be still great, dispite of the diverse not fulfilled expectations.

The main question is how good rm3 II will be for the own individual needs - have to wait for the reviews and try.

Will it have a stand fith pedal fix (not an X)?

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#2020869 - 01/25/13 02:18 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: davinwv]
Bogs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/17/10
Posts: 133
I also think it's a good idea. If the VPC1 had been on the market when I was looking for a DP replacement, mostly because of the weight. I live in a rented house and dread the moment I have to move to another place because I have to carry my piano. I did consider the MP10, but I'm interested in only classical music, I don't want knobs and buttons everywhere. With the MP10 I had the feeling I was paying for features that I would never use.

That being said, I think it is a bit pricey (at ~16000e). No speakers [I rarely use them, but I definitely need them come recital time and I say from experience that average audio systems cannot handle a virtual piano] and call me crazy, but I actually like the Kawai sound! smile Now if it were more like 1200e and compete with Yamaha P155 in Europe, that would be a different story.

I'm curios how this unit will sale. Best of luck!
_________________________
old Gaveau upright & Kawai CA63; previously Korg SP250

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#2020870 - 01/25/13 02:30 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: davinwv]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9064
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Temperament, the question of a stand was raised in another forum. It's not really something that we have planned for, however these thing can change if the demand is there.

Bogs, thank you for your post. I agree that for classical musicians who do not require knobs and buttons the VPC1 makes absolute sense.

On a similar note, it's perhaps worth pointing out the 'wife acceptance factor' (WAF) of the VPC1. We often hear from folks wishing to buy an MP10 or similar such stage piano, but their other half simply will not allow it in the living room. I believe the clutter-free top surface of the VPC1 may help in this respect.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2020872 - 01/25/13 02:33 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: davinwv]
Nigeth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 108
I probably could have lived with the chosen trade offs of the VPC but the fact that support for all of its features is windows only is a deal breaker to me.

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#2020877 - 01/25/13 02:47 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: davinwv]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
@Bogs; seems like you're talking about an ES7 for the requirements you describe.

@James;
- is there a Mac version of he touch curve editor in the make ?
- And can you, or can you not easily and secure place a laptop on the (curved) surface, which is the thing 99% of the potential VPC buyers are going to do . Where else do your SW Piano's come from.
- is there already a suggested retail pricing for the European marked available ? The US price doesn't say much in that respect ; history learns the euro price can still be quite different , as with the ES 7.

I personally don't regret not seeing a mod-wheel. There seems to be enough space on the surface to add your own additional gear, containing all the controls you want. I like the stripped down , no frills approach to make it a piano first and suit yourself to fill in for all the features you miss. There will probably an mp10 follow up somewhere in the future for people who really want it all in one package AND with the new rm3 II or GF. That is NOT what his VPC pretends to be.

Still I hope an average 15" laptop will fit easily on top - that's the only thing I worry about reading about the curved surface. On the foto the small notebook finds it place, but there are plenty of bigger laptops around..., perhaps Kawai can make an anti-slip accessoire with roughly a laptop footprint, that you can lay on top of the VPC. Doesn't have to cost the world- just foam or rubber like material . Small gesture that would immediately quiet all critical remarks on that subject.


Edited by JFP (01/25/13 02:49 AM)

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#2020878 - 01/25/13 03:00 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: davinwv]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Oh...after seeing the pics on Kraft and remembering the endless discussions about a good music paper rest for the mp10 I'm a bit surprised to see the same old music stand design again on th VPC ? Why not the nice translucent music stand that comes with the es7 additional accessories ?!

Beats me - forgot to listen ?
Still too many of those old paper rests in stock ;-)
Some people at Kawai like the current design too much ?

It's only a small part of the package, but perfection is in the detail. A missed opportunity IMHO. Maybe an after market accessoire ? VPC design is great, a nice and functional (!) music rest completes the design.

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#2020895 - 01/25/13 04:25 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: Kawai James]
Wave1 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 2
James, unless headphones are used clutter will come with the audio interface/monitors (and laptop of course. I've seen how the lack of a stand takes from the good looks for the MP10 so I think more reason with VPC1).
Hence I see the need for a wooden stand; It adds to the classy look for sure; but also with proper design has the potential to tuck that clutter behind. With clever design (like in office desks) even keep the cables all stuck at the top rear of the wooden stand.

And I agree with JFP that the paper rest is truly ugly. From a design perspective feels like an after thought.

Update:
Ok, here is a nice video from the Namm floor about the VPC1 key action (brought over from another forum).. enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoktYu4D9HU


Edited by Wave1 (01/25/13 05:21 AM)
_________________________
Wave1,

Yamaha P-155

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#2020935 - 01/25/13 06:13 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: Kawai James]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 796
@James: Something needs to be done about the Windows only software. Given the broad acceptance of Macs in this game a MacOS and/or iOS version of the software (for iPads) is needed (ideally for other OS as well!).

And of course this guy here would want to be able to edit touch curves without buying a new computer!

_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.

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#2020945 - 01/25/13 06:38 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: davinwv]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
To summarize my earlier remarks:

VPC - great product, but a few suggestions:

1) If the surface is too much curved for an average 15" laptop to find a save place; offer an accessory (foam/rubber) that will make the placement of a laptop easy and save.
2) Make a Mac version of the curve editor (must!)
3) Make another, better and stylish paper rest - as an after market accessory

For the rest ; cool machine


Edited by JFP (01/25/13 07:47 AM)

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#2020952 - 01/25/13 07:12 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: maurus]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3195
Originally Posted By: maurus
@James: Something needs to be done about the Windows only software. Given the broad acceptance of Macs in this game a MacOS and/or iOS version of the software (for iPads) is needed (ideally for other OS as well!).

And of course this guy here would want to be able to edit touch curves without buying a new computer!


Maybe it could be easily ported using Wine.

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#2020953 - 01/25/13 07:13 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: davinwv]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 796
Maybe. But still.

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#2020954 - 01/25/13 07:16 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: maurus]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3195
Originally Posted By: maurus
Maybe. But still.

To be clear, I was suggesting that Kawai might be able to do that port pretty easily. It's not something I would want them to ask of a consumer.

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#2020956 - 01/25/13 07:19 AM Re: Kawai VPC [Re: anotherscott]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 796
Ah. Yes, they should do it.

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New start - wish me good luck:)
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Automatic Piano Players...
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No one home?
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Prokofiev's 5 piano concertos, live: Marinskij/Gergiev etc
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Has anyone here studied with S. Babayan
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