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#2012290 - 01/10/13 02:35 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: Olek]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5184
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: Kamin
I have find the white powder and monomer (not expensive)

They are very easy to use, but the final colour is slightly translucide.

Do some tried to mix with some white powder (as titanium white) ?

The mix is so strong and hard once set (very fast) I suppose it can accept a little neutral power and/or a trace of yellow acrylic colour.

The smell is awful !

If you are getting the stuff from a source that sells to "beauty shops" you are probably getting the translucent stuff intended to emulate human fingernails. Go back and ask them for the opaque variety.

In the U.S., at least, both types are available. As are powders of slightly different colors.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#2012295 - 01/10/13 02:43 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7258
Loc: France
Thanks Del, I thought it was white because of the poweder , indeed it emulate natural fingernails.

I asked if yellow was available, and get a smile ! may be to emulate heavy smokers fingernails wink

Anyway a very interesting product, I used it to reinforce the plate of a speaker (where the wiring is, it was broken)

The guy told me to use the product little by little, no mix just pour the brush in the monomer then in the powder, it is almost immediate...
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2013122 - 01/11/13 10:19 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4414
Loc: San Jose, CA
"...seems to work as well as the stuff used by dentists..."

I was just thinking that very thing--- that is, "Ask a dentist." They use all kinds of interesting and durable materials, which would certainly stand up as keytops, if they can stand up to living in a mouth. And, they do pretty close color-matching.

Some guys might not want to be seen going into a beauty parlor, anyway. But a dentist's office is ok.
_________________________
Clef


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#2013139 - 01/11/13 11:41 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: Jeff Clef]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3520
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef
"...seems to work as well as the stuff used by dentists..."

I was just thinking that very thing--- that is, "Ask a dentist." They use all kinds of interesting and durable materials, which would certainly stand up as keytops, if they can stand up to living in a mouth. And, they do pretty close color-matching.

Some guys might not want to be seen going into a beauty parlor, anyway. But a dentist's office is ok.


Yeah, but have you seen how much a dentist charges?!

(And what if one of your keys needs a root canal...)

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#2016934 - 01/18/13 09:32 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1168
Loc: Québec, Canada
I used it today. I wanted to make a short video on the procedure, but was time constrained. So here is the final result, recorded with my iPhone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piOrzv5TFMM&feature=youtu.be

The key on the right, had the right corner chipped. The key on the left had a typical half moon chip in the middle.

I am very happy with the result.

I did experiment on quite a few spares. Seems to me that the recipe in the literature provided does not ask for enough powder.

I used the pure white at first, given the excellent state of the ivories, and ended up with a darker shade. The reason was that is was still translucent. By adding more powder, the acrylic becomes more opaque, but dries a lot faster. It turns into a paste as you apply it, which, now that I have worked with it. is actually nice. You can even reapply more and it sticks.

So, all in all, I will be visiting my local fingernail specialist soon.
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#2016959 - 01/18/13 10:42 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Very nice job Jean. I couldn't see it!
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#2016966 - 01/18/13 10:54 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1168
Loc: Québec, Canada
Thanks Jerry,

It's very difficult to properly photograph or film. The video is not very good.

If you look at the reflections, the repairs can be seen. Then again it might be because I know where they are.

But it sure beats trying to match a new head. And the stuff sands and buffs just like ivory. The challenge is the mix of powder and acrylic and proper preparation.

Who knows, if the piano business goes as some pessimists say, I can always go into the fingernail business.!!!
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#2017054 - 01/19/13 02:38 AM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7258
Loc: France
The product I find does not need to be mixed, the brush is dipped in monomer, and a small quantity of powder grips on it, not mixed but begin to melt,

When you apply it with the brush, more monomer is added from the brush and the product have the perfect consistency. They use cat tongue shaped brush so the monomer is in the brush as in a bottle.

I was explained to make small touches , not one big. Little powder.

I used a covering white acryl an monomer for nails . Thanks Del for the opaque info, the natural quality is not adequate

It can be used to repar usual acryl glass keys too, I suppose.

Used some masking tape to avoid too much thickness on the top if the key, but it fies not make a clean surface. A brushing with almost only monimer smooth the surface if wanted .

I will go to fingernails institute to see how they use it and also how thwy work with the Dremel. They polish with grit 1000 - 4000 but the acryl is covered with Uv drying products, may be harder.

Excellent tip, the nail trade have also excellent hammer files 100-180, white and large.


Edited by Kamin (01/19/13 02:42 AM)
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2017057 - 01/19/13 02:46 AM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: Jeff Clef]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5184
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef
[i]Some guys might not want to be seen going into a beauty parlor, anyway. But a dentist's office is ok.

You don't go into a "beauty parlor" to get this stuff, you go into the store that sells supplies to beauty parlors.

Men, even "manly" men, are allowed. Just bring money.

ddf


Edited by Del (01/19/13 02:47 AM)
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#2017204 - 01/19/13 11:30 AM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7258
Loc: France
But you can go to a beauty parlor to ask for addresses (and telephone number) ...
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2017372 - 01/19/13 03:51 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Nice job Jean. I will have to order some of that product and try it out. The video is good for showing the repair. The only thing missed was turning the key over to see the underside of the repair, the overhang of the ivory.

Next video….
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2017383 - 01/19/13 04:10 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1168
Loc: Québec, Canada
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#2017431 - 01/19/13 05:49 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Good one Jean, looks nice both sides.

I will order some of the materials. Speeding up the drying/curing process by adding more powder makes sense as a certain percentage of the drying process will happen by absorption.( into the powder.)
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2017438 - 01/19/13 05:54 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7258
Loc: France
for the nail product, it dry fast and harden totally alittle later.
For that one I was said to use little powder.

After a few tests you know how much powder is necessary with the brush you use.

I just made about ten chipped ivories . once poilished it is neat.
But I only have white, (I will try some yellow tint if necessary)
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2017664 - 01/20/13 04:04 AM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1168
Loc: Québec, Canada
Isaac,

Post videos, Ideally with the products you used, their names and composition.

Maybe even your procedure.

I am now sold on the fact that we can repair old sets of ivory.

Much easier than trying to match. And a kind of apology to the animals that died for it. If their tusks can live for decades, I feel good giving them another few.

Jean
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#2017669 - 01/20/13 04:43 AM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1168
Loc: Québec, Canada
The stuff dries fast, and stinks. What is really nice is that you can work it as it hardens.

So if it's a big chip, when it's fresh, 30 seconds or so, it runs. Too liquid.

After a minute to a minute and a half, it starts to gel. Now you can actually shape it. The kit comes with wooden type tooth picks, one end flat and the other rounded, they work all right.

Preparation is key. Gutters and flow patterns etc... Small plastic spatula type tools work better.

Timing is everything, this stuff dries FAST.

At five minutes you are already too late.

So, preparation is crucial.
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#2017761 - 01/20/13 10:42 AM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7258
Loc: France
Jean, we certainly use similar products. I made pics but it does not show the process.

I could make a video for the last ivory I have to do. The backing tope of double face tape can help to mold. I did not shape the paste much, only file later, (it is shaped a little while pouring it, with the brush) you gain time with the spatula Iwas afraid that the product did not hold well.

I wanted to see how they do in the nail trade , so to be sure to understand how they mix the powder, quantities.
Taking the powder directly in a cup, with the brush dipped in the liquid (in a small glass jar) is efficient to regulate the amount of liquid.
If the brush is dipped too frankly, too much powder adhere on it, but it you only take a little, you may put it without too much pressure on the brush.

On the akrylikey instructions, do they say make the mix on a glass plate ? I frankly find the mix easy to do, I am just unsure of the quantity to have the stronger bond. I also did not find any yellowish or cream looking powder, so I will make tests with yellow stain if necessary (concentrated stains for laquer and polyester) difficult to find the good color probably.

That is the kind of powder , it comes from Germany. I find the monomer in a beauty shop, and baught small jars and glass jar on the net, same supplier. All those products must be cheap, I have seen prices from 1 to 4 so some web sites may be exagerating.

Their burnishers may be worth a try (sanding block 1000-4000)


Edited by Kamin (01/20/13 10:58 AM)
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2020049 - 01/24/13 01:27 AM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
phacke Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014


Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 470
Loc: CO, USA
Very interesting thread, thanks for sharing the information.
_________________________
phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
G. F. Händel: Suite in G minor (HWV 452)
J. S. Bach, Sonata No. 1 in B minor (BWV 1014) duet with violin

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#2020080 - 01/24/13 02:46 AM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7258
Loc: France
About molding, it is done with a brush, in the nail trade.

A good solution (the adapted brush contsins quite some monomer)
Because it soften the paste better than a wooden spatula. The paste hardens very fast

They use an agent for better adhesion. Possibly only a cleaner with isopropyl.

This is worth to be tested if the adhesion is better. I just use pure isopropyl.


Edited by Olek (01/24/13 03:06 AM)
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2211082 - 01/08/14 06:40 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Hey Jean,

I wanted to thank you once again for starting this thread and the videos of this kind of repair.

I ordered some of this stuff after you showed me the video in this thread which was a year ago. I finally had time this week to mess around a bit and I like the results.

A tip about usage for yourself and everyone who tries this product;

At times when ivory gets thin along the leading edge (overhang) of the head, the ivory itself can appear opaque while the overhang appears more grey in colour, because there is nothing backing it from underneath.

I found today that while the mixture is still runny, a very thin coat can be painted on the underside of the overhang so that it appears opaque too. I used the runny mixture in the channel cut underneath the ivory head to do that part. This way the chip fill disappears completely.

Another way to do that;

When using the ivory glue wafers the excess wafer has to be cut away prior to heating the clamps and setting the ivory. I have been saving up a small tin cup of the cut away pieces of glue wafer, melted them in the glue pot with a bit of water and the glue that comes off gives the same result if painted on the underside of the overhang.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2211085 - 01/08/14 06:45 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1168
Loc: Québec, Canada
Thanks Dan!! I will give that a try next time. Did you take before and after photos?
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#2211089 - 01/08/14 06:59 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1168
Loc: Québec, Canada
And by the way, this thread is, to me at least, what this forum is all about. DIYers can easily search for them and there are no egos involved.
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#2211116 - 01/08/14 07:35 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Hi Jean,

I didn’t think to take any before/after photos, as I am real busy at the moment. I have more to do next week and will take some and post them.

_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2211117 - 01/08/14 07:35 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1168
Loc: Québec, Canada
Thanks!
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#2211118 - 01/08/14 07:38 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Originally Posted By: accordeur
And by the way, this thread is, to me at least, what this forum is all about. DIYers can easily search for them and there are no egos involved.


This is a good point Jean, I agree completely. Bonne santé.
Enjoy the cold there,at least you have power.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2211119 - 01/08/14 07:42 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1168
Loc: Québec, Canada
And a Happy New Year to you Dan!
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#2211131 - 01/08/14 08:03 PM Re: AcrilyKey II [Re: accordeur]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada


Thanks Jean. I hope you had a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year with lots of family, and friends present to enjoy the Holiday Season with.
Best of luck for 2014.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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