Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2017708 - 01/20/13 08:20 AM Starting Over
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1867
Loc: Pennsylvania
Well, I have now come full circle.

I started with an inexpensive digital piano, graduated to a better (as in more expensive) one, then a console digital piano, then explored midi software sounds with audio device and mixer, powered monitors, additional VSTs, better monitors.

I used the VSTs as the only sound and/or combined the software sounds with my DP sounds. Also combined the VST sounds.

Lots of time and money spent fussing with options in search of the "perfect" sound.

I now have taken the "drastic" step of chucking most of it.

I now have only my DP (ES7) and my Focal CMS 60 nearfield monitors and it seems fine.

At last, ........... I can just play.

At least, for the moment. LOL ...
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
Yamaha Keyboards for Performance and Composition

Click Here


#2017715 - 01/20/13 08:26 AM Re: Starting Over [Re: dmd]
FredrikJ Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 21
Are you sure you will not bet a better sound if you just... ? laugh

Top
#2017717 - 01/20/13 08:35 AM Re: Starting Over [Re: dmd]
Aeons Holle Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 55
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
My sincere congratulations!
What many crave, you have achieved. May you enjoy playing for a long time to come.
_________________________
Kawai CA95
VI Labs True Keys: Pianos
Synthogy Ivory II American Concert D, Italian Grand, Grand Pianos
Galaxy Vintage D, The Giant

Top
#2017718 - 01/20/13 08:42 AM Re: Starting Over [Re: dmd]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 718
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Hi digitalpianoholics anonymous community. My name is Evgeny. This is not the end. BELIEVE me! laugh It'll start over and over again...


Edited by CyberGene (01/20/13 08:46 AM)
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

Top
#2017740 - 01/20/13 09:27 AM Re: Starting Over [Re: CyberGene]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1867
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: CyberGene
Hi digitalpianoholics anonymous community. My name is Evgeny. This is not the end. BELIEVE me! laugh It'll start over and over again...


I absolutely believe you.

I think the next round will probably begin with a better sound delivery system.

I think the piano software has reached a point where it is very good.

If I could only get that sound to my ears through the air.

That seems to be the issue.

The sound I hear with the demos is always superb but when I run it through my "stuff" it loses something. Part of it is my ability as a pianist (they always have virtuoso players demoing it) but not all of it.

So, I will probably sit back for awhile and see what develops and watch for a great deal on audio equipment. Not for a while though. I am finished for the time being.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

Top
#2017828 - 01/20/13 01:14 PM Re: Starting Over [Re: dmd]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
dmd, are you still happy with your ES7? I love mine, but I do wish I could get that fabulous sound I hear thru my headphone onto the on board speakers. The only thing i added was a Polk subwoofer. I have it set to produce minimal base but just enough that it compliments the onboard speakers. Not perfect but can get some real good sound going.

Also, I now use my SEN HD380 headphones full time over my Bose buds. After messing around with the Virtual Tech I was able to get the near perfect sound thru them - Wow! The bose are still great if you just turn on the piano to factory default.

My only con I can say is just wish the ES7 came with CP300 speakers. It would probably be the best portable DP ever.


Edited by Marko in Boston (01/20/13 01:16 PM)
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

Top
#2017833 - 01/20/13 01:36 PM Re: Starting Over [Re: Marko in Boston]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1867
Loc: Pennsylvania
Marko: The ES7 sound is what is allowing me to discard all that other sound software and equipment. I think it is a great sound. Not perfect, of course (lol), but very good.

As you said, the speakers are not the best but they work for very low volume. I use my Focal CMS 60 monitors and this gets me to a place where I enjoy playing. I mix the sound of the monitors and speakers periodically for variation.

And, yes ... the sound thru phones is the nearest thing to perfect I have heard. That usually is the case for most DPs I think.

The bottom line is I am doing more playing and less analyzing sound quality.



Edited by dmd (01/20/13 01:38 PM)
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

Top
#2017841 - 01/20/13 01:55 PM Re: Starting Over [Re: dmd]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
I totally understand. It can make your head spin trying to find the perfect sound. I went thru this when trying to shop for the best DP. The ES7 is great professional instrument and we need to enjoy it, appreciate it, and play like crazy :-)
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

Top
#2017850 - 01/20/13 02:16 PM Re: Starting Over [Re: CyberGene]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5276
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: CyberGene
Hi digitalpianoholics anonymous community. My name is Evgeny. This is not the end. BELIEVE me! laugh It'll start over and over again...


This is a 12 half step program.
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

Top
#2017854 - 01/20/13 02:22 PM Re: Starting Over [Re: Dave Horne]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 718
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: CyberGene
Hi digitalpianoholics anonymous community. My name is Evgeny. This is not the end. BELIEVE me! laugh It'll start over and over again...


This is a 12 half step program.


laugh
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

Top
#2017881 - 01/20/13 03:00 PM Re: Starting Over [Re: dmd]
mitzysman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 283
sounds like a nice idea to simplify. I find that b/c my DP is 10 years old the VST really are good for my setup. If I had an ES7 i might feel differntly. On another note, are you selling any VST's ? American D ?
_________________________
Yamaha P-250 | Galaxy II Pianos | Galaxy Vintage D | The GIANT

Top
#2017926 - 01/20/13 04:15 PM Re: Starting Over [Re: mitzysman]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1867
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: mitzysman
I find that b/c my DP is 10 years old the VST really are good for my setup. If I had an ES7 i might feel differntly.


Absolutely. Prior to my purchase of the ES7 I did not have a sound I could live with as a steady diet.


Quote:
On another note, are you selling any VST's ? American D ?


I might consider it. However, it may turn out that the process I and the buyer have to go through to do it legally is not worth the little bit a buyer would wish to pay.

American D ? I don't have that.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

Top
#2017952 - 01/20/13 05:29 PM Re: Starting Over [Re: dmd]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 473
Originally Posted By: dmd
The sound I hear with the demos is always superb but when I run it through my "stuff" it loses something. Part of it is my ability as a pianist (they always have virtuoso players demoing it) but not all of it.

My take on your situation is that you did not find the right piano software. I hear demos and they can sound good and bad but if the software makes a bad player sound good it is worth having. Some show every weakness in the player. I think the piano sounds great with a specific plug-in so I play better.......I noodle and like the sound. Someday I will play piano.

Top
#2017957 - 01/20/13 05:42 PM Re: Starting Over [Re: dmd]
origen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/17/12
Posts: 84
Loc: New Hampshire
I highly recommend using a pair of mid 90s bookshelf speakers, this may sound a little like sacrilege but I use a pair of mid range yamaha bookshelf's and they crank, I dont need a subwoofer and they'll shake the room with piano bass if I need em too and they sound crisp. The highs sound like a piano should and the lows boom, I am not a fan of many current "monitor" speakers as they lack the ability to "move air" at least from my experience. Ive listened through Rockets, Martin Logans, and Def Techs, but nothing pushes out the piano sound like my old Yamahas. Speakers just dont seem to be made like they used to, even the expensive ones.
_________________________
RD700NX, Komplete 8, NI Maschine

Top
#2017965 - 01/20/13 06:09 PM Re: Starting Over [Re: dmd]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3818
Loc: North Carolina
I wouldn't condemn speakers for "not being made like they used to". But I have to agree with you about "moving air". Monitors don't cut it for me, either.

Speakers need to be big enough for the room in which they perform. I use a pair of bookshelf speakers (Polks) and a pair of floor-standing speakers (JBLs). Up to a point, bigger is better.

Top
#2017973 - 01/20/13 06:24 PM Re: Starting Over [Re: dmd]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2709
Loc: Atlanta, GA
May I recommend an acoustic piano? There isn't a speaker system yet that can compete with even a mid-level baby grand for sound delivery.

Oops, wrong forum... wink
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bsendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

Top
#2017975 - 01/20/13 06:29 PM Re: Starting Over [Re: MacMacMac]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1867
Loc: Pennsylvania
These last two responses are all about ... LOUD ! BOOMING !

I am not interested in shaking the house.

I am looking for clear, clean, and tinkly (is that a word ?).

What I have (ES7) will pretty much give me that through my phones.

However, through its' speakers it becomes a little buzzed. It loses some of its' body.

Through my monitors it holds up better, but even there it thins out when it becomes loud.

Like I said, it is pretty good right now. I just spent the last year or two striving for better. I may not be able to do that without considerable more investment in either equipment or a higher level DP ... as in Yamaha NU1, etc ...
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

Top
#2017977 - 01/20/13 06:34 PM Re: Starting Over [Re: PianoWorksATL]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1867
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: PianoWorksATL
May I recommend an acoustic piano? There isn't a speaker system yet that can compete with even a mid-level baby grand for sound delivery.


Well, that is not an impossibility, though remote.

However, after learning to play on a digital piano and trying to play a little on acoustic pianos in music stores, I have the sense that playing on an acoustic is pretty much out of the question. My technique has developed in a totally different environment and it would take a complete retooling to adjust to the sensitivity of an acoustic.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

Top
#2017981 - 01/20/13 06:42 PM Re: Starting Over [Re: o0Ampy0o]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1867
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
My take on your situation is that you did not find the right piano software. I hear demos and they can sound good and bad but if the software makes a bad player sound good it is worth having. Some show every weakness in the player. I think the piano sounds great with a specific plug-in so I play better.......I noodle and like the sound. Someday I will play piano.


Well, if I haven't been able to find the right software (see below), it is proving extremely elusive. I have most of the popular ones.

Also, I do not think that software makes a bad player sound good. I think it is the other way around. I think a good player makes software (I won't say it is bad software) sound better than a bad player does.

The problem we (or I anyway) have is that we don't seem to be able to collaborate directly on these sounds. It would be very interesting for me to go where someone has their dp and software running, hear what they sound like with it, play it myself and see what I hear. It may be that these accolades we hear about various sounds are so very subjective that we would never agree on what sounds "good".
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

Top
#2018140 - 01/21/13 02:15 AM Re: Starting Over [Re: dmd]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 473
Originally Posted By: dmd
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
My take on your situation is that you did not find the right piano software. I hear demos and they can sound good and bad but if the software makes a bad player sound good it is worth having. Some show every weakness in the player. I think the piano sounds great with a specific plug-in so I play better.......I noodle and like the sound. Someday I will play piano.

...I do not think that software makes a bad player sound good. I think it is the other way around. I think a good player makes software (I won't say it is bad software) sound better than a bad player does.

I wish I had worded my point clearer. Although I said, "if the software makes a bad player sound good it is worth having." That should be interpreted as if it can make a bad player sound good.... It was not intended as a blanket statement, as in good software makes bad players sound good. I was speaking to the ability of software to make a bad player sound better. This is done by characteristics in the software over other characteristics and because sometimes the bad player (like me) performs his best when the sound has certain characteristics. I cannot even play a complete song yet.......I only noodle around. If the piano sound makes that noodling sound good I'm in. I have other software that mercilessly demands skill. The sound is stellar but it does not help me at all.

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Kawai MP11 black key noise?
by rungabic
09/22/14 11:35 AM
Rachmaninoff 2 and broken strings
by Anne'sson
09/22/14 09:31 AM
Kawai CN24 vs Kawai CA65 Vs Acoustic
by Luca33
09/22/14 08:55 AM
What happpened to the "edit" button?
by jim ialeggio
09/22/14 07:38 AM
AMusA reports?
by Badinage
09/22/14 07:03 AM
Who's Online
142 registered (anotherscott, ajames, accordeur, ando, 37 invisible), 1640 Guests and 16 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76285 Members
42 Forums
157690 Topics
2316228 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission