Hi. I am looking to buy either a brand new or used piano...depending on the price and quality. I don't know much about pianos, but I do like the way kawais and yamahas sound. I've looked into Yamaha U1's and was quoted a used one (between 1977-1983) for around $4,000. Is that a good price? I've also been looking at Kawais...specifically the K25. I was quoted $5495 + taxes + delivery for a K25. Is this a good price? Also, I was quoted $4795 for the UST8 and $4450 for the K18. Please Help!!! Thanks advance for your help.

You can get a nice newer piano for $4000, but if you search the internet that's about the price range you'll see for a U1. Check ebay and do a search on U1 and you'll come up with some brokers in Texas. If you call them they'll send their latest price list. People buy these by the container from Japan and re-sell here, primarily because Yamaha's are known as reliable and the U1 is known as a good piano.

For Kawais, based on the Spring 2005 price list at bluebookofpianos.com:

K25 ebony MSRP $6595
UST8 ebony MSRP $6395
K18 ebony MSRP $5395

Take 20% off of the above and that would be considered pretty reasonable-some people pay more, some pay less. Depends on the dealer, the local conditions, etc. So the UST8 and the K18 look to be more discounted, but all of the prices are in my opinion, "in the ballpark."

You might see if there are any Young Chang Pramberger's being sold in your area, with the reorganization, reportedly in some areas these pianos are being sold at about 1/2 off. These are nice pianos for the money, in my opinion, better than the older U1. Samick and Kohler and Campbell pianos are also nice values in my opinion-you might even be able to get into a 50"+ piano by one of the Samick labels or Nordiska or Perzina.

Typical advice on the forums: buy the Larry Fine book, shop by what you like, don't be dissuaded by brand but do search these forums for more information on the more reliable pianos, take your time, play as many pianos as you can, and have a good tech check out the piano before you buy it.

Hi Martin J,

Wow, thank you so much for this information. This is so useful!! I am pretty much a beginner and I am going to start taking piano lessons next week. Given that I am such a beginner, do you have any advice as to which piano I should invest in? So if I had to make a purchase among one of the kawai's, which one do you think is the best deal? Of course I like the K25 the best, but honestly, I could probably be happy with any of them. What is your opinion on getting something like the UST-8 or the K18?

I will also check out the Young Chang's pianos and others you suggested.

Thank you so much.

Taylor

Hi Taylor:

FYI I'm not really experienced in the business. I was in your spot about 2 years ago and ended up buying my piano a month ago. I'm one of those people who looks for everything and anything and I did a ton of research on pianos.

Larry Fine is recognized as the source on piano buying. You'll save money if you buy his book, and learn a lot about pianos. Most of what I know is because I've read his book about 3 times, and then I've done internet searches on pianos I was interested in, and then went looking for those pianos. At the time I didn't play at all, so mostly I was looking at quick visuals on overall construction, and then basic feel and sound.

For a beginner, in my opinion you're wise to purchase a nice piano. I was looking at the UST-7 because of it's size and build, with the institutional style cabinet and legs rather than furniture style cabinetry. Of course Kawai's reputation as well.

Kawai's are nice, and if you don't want to spend a lot of time looking for pianos, you won't go wrong with any of those 3 in my opinion. They are going to be a lot more consistent than some of the Korean pianos because Kawais are more fully prepped at the factory (so says the things I've read on the internet and in the Fine book-like I said, I'm not in the business so it's not like I see a dozen of these pianos roll through a store etc.).

The thing about the Korean pianos is you can get a whole lot of piano for less money because of the market economy thing-less demand. Not necessarily less quality, but that's why whittling it down to a piano and then having a tech check it out is important. In this case, personally I'm still more comfortable with those pianos being made in Korea, but for a beginner, a Samick piano made in Indonesia is still going to be very fun for you to play!

Not to mention, as you'll see in these forums, the Chinese pianos are improving. So for $4000-$6500, you can get into a nice piano for someone at your level through probably even intermediate playing. At some point if you improve enough, you're going to want to get into a grand. If you have $10000 now, that might be something to look into (better yet, $12000).

If you save a few hundred to a few thousand dollars, then you've also just allowed yourself to (a) buy more lessons, (b) buy more music, (c) fund your tunings for a year or two, and/or (d) free up money to get a dampp-chaser system. (I don't know about climate swings in Virginia, but given the Iowa winters, in my opinion a dampp-chaser is critical). The dampp-chaser, FYI, is a humidity control system that helps keep your soundboard stable and free from swelling that occurs as humidity fluctuates. Helps keep the piano in tune.

http://www.dampp-chaser.com/

Lastly, these are just my opinions, and it's fun to share them on this forum. In the end, it's your $$$, so buy the piano the feels and sounds best to you. In the end if you like it, then it was a good deal.

If you're looking at Kawais because you want a piano that's going to be reliable and sound good, and you want a "name brand" piano or are hesitant to buy something not made in Japan, then by all means go for the Kawai. Like I said, any of the 3 would be great! But if you want to look around, you might be surprised at how well some less expensive pianos stack up to the Kawai.

Thank you Martin J for all your advice. Let me buy the Larry's piano book and do some research.

Also, I was looking at a Yamaha M1A console (42 inch) built in 1982. It was for selling locally, so I got a chance to look at it. There were some scratches here and there. I did some research and found that a couple of people have ads selling for about 2000-2500 range. If I pay him $1200-$1300 for this piano, is this a good deal? Also, do you know if there is a polish for the yamahas black ebony finish?

Personally I'd pass on a 20+ year old piano unless it was a Tier 1 type. In your price range, I'd suggest going for a bigger, newer, piano (like the 3 Kawais you started with).

As you read the Fine book, you'll have to decide for yourself, "how big," "what features," "what reputation," and ultimately, "how much."

In my opinion anything under $2000 or so, and you might check in to digital pianos. Also in my opinion, you're probably better off going with larger (45"+) pianos than smaller.

As for "good deal," it goes beyond just the price alone. Only you and your tech can answer that question. If you like it, it checks out with your tech, and has been maintained properly, a 20+ year old Yamaha might work out for you. Are you drawn to the Japanese quality? If that's a plus for you, then if you like the Kawai's go for it! Or check into some of the Yamaha console sized pianos. Is it the cost? Is $5000 more than you really want to spend?

If it were my $1200, I'd be looking digital, or, go back to your initial post-you've mentioned 3 quality pianos! If you want to go less costly, check out the 506 Kawai (even though it's not quite 45"). Check these forums for reviews on the 48" Nordiska, Perzina, and Samick pianos. Nordiska and Samick I'd say are in your price range, Perzina might be pushing it but you never know until you ask. These pianos are often heavily discounted, so the retail price can be deceptive.

Also-I reiterate. Don't buy what I like or what I think. If you think it plays nice, looks nice, is backed by a dealer who has been in business for a while, and it's how you like it when you play in the store, have a tech check it out and go from there. Do narrow your choice down and the deal all but sealed before you call a tech in otherwise it'll just get expensive for you to have lots of inspections (or you'll have a tech check a piano that you like but ends up being out of your price range because you "thought" you could get the dealer to go lower but he chooses not to).

There are lots of pianos out there. Buying from a dealer or from a tech gives you something like a 5 year warranty, maybe more. That's something to consider. In the $2500-$5000 price range, I don't think you're going to have the, "I wish I didn't let that piano get away" syndrome. Recognize, though, that a quality new piano is going to be over $3000 (probably closer to $4000). Quality used pianos may be harder to come by but here you may be able to get by under $2500 (3-5 year old Yamaha M450 types, maybe P22, Kohler and Campbell studios (Indonesian and Korean), etc.). (also, recognize that a lot of people in the forum may think that "quality" and "$3000" are not compatible. We all gotta start somewhere, right?)

You're looking at a mass produced piano. There are no Tier 1 pianos at Tier 5 prices. Once we accept that, great! I have a mass produced piano, too! I love it! I did a whole lot of reading up and in the end decided a Korean made studio was great for where we're at right now. Once you start looking around, you'll know what's right for you.

Just for the record:

Kawai has had a price increase (October 15th) since the printing of the last Fine Price Supplement. The new prices are as follows:

K25 ebony $7,495
UST 8 $6,695
K18 ebony $5,895

Good luck with the search on your piano. I would strongly suggest a new Kawai over 20+ year old piano.

How much do you want to spend? I actually just got back from buying a new piano right now. I first started to look at grey market Yamaha's but I felt spending 4000 for such an old piano was too much when for about a grand more, I could get a new decent piano. I ended up spending about 5000 and went with a Bohemia instead. I liked the action and sound just a tad more than the Perzina, and I liked the fact that it was built in the Czech Republic instead of China (Perzina), and the place I bought the Bohemia from is also a restoration shop.

I did end up getting a smaller piano though, the Perzina was a 51" and the Bohemia was a 47" but I'm happy with the purchase.

Anyways, if you shop around you can get one of the smaller Perzinas for about 3800, everything included.

Like everybody else says though, shop around.

I was a little skeptical myself getting a 20+ year old piano as well...and personally, I'd rather spend a little bit more. I guess my next step is to consider which of the Kawai's. Thank you so much for all the advice.