Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#2015382 - 01/16/13 10:05 AM Steingraeber Piano
Pianoshel Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 4
Loc: Everett, MA
Larry invited my brother, Dan, my son, David, and myself, to come up to Lowell and play the Steingraeber.

It was unvelievable! The warm tones and feelings came out so easily. The new carbon composit sound board seems like a great new invention. It sounds great and it will probably last forever. The sound was big and wholesome. It was so enjoyable to play this great instrument.

Thanks Larry,
Sheldon Powers

Top
(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

 

#2018299 - 01/21/13 10:49 AM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Pianoshel]
Goof Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/05/12
Posts: 352
Loc: UK
I've been to see these pianos at Hurstwood Farm Pianos,here in Kent UK.
I was with my friend who is a fantastic pianist and I actually had to move away so that non could see that the sound was bringing tears to my eyes!!

Top
#2018308 - 01/21/13 10:55 AM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Pianoshel]
Steven Y. A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
I had a conversation with my friend who studies material science few years ago. He said the composite material (probably the carbon or poly) has superior acoustic quality compare to wood, and can be used in violin or piano.
Thats from a pure scientific point of view.

I guess while it removes the prestine from tradtional wood manufacturer, its more sustainable and cheaper to make.
_________________________
PLEYEL P124

Top
#2018316 - 01/21/13 11:05 AM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Pianoshel]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1742
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
I look forward to playing one someday.

I haven't heard a composite stringed instrument that's impressed me yet, but I'm sure Steingraeber wouldn't put out a piano that didn't sound great.

In the meantime, I'm confident I can milk my wooden soundboard for the years I'll need...
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

Top
#2018345 - 01/21/13 11:41 AM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Pianoshel]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5012
I wish more concert pianists would play Steingraeber - even if only occasionally - in concert and for recordings. There are quite a few CDs around using Grotrian-Steinweg or Sauter, (and of course lots and lots using Fazioli, Bosendorfer or Bluthner) but only two or three that use a Steingraeber. Yet from my limited experience, Steingraeber is right up there with the best of the great European pianos.

Top
#2018359 - 01/21/13 12:02 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Steven Y. A.]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Steven Y. A.
...I guess while it removes the prestine from tradtional wood manufacturer, its more sustainable and cheaper to make.
Cheaper to make? Then why are carbon fibre boards found only on the most expensive pianos, and wood is used by all other brands, from the lowest entry level on up?
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

Top
#2018390 - 01/21/13 12:46 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: ClsscLib]
Larry Buck Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 2339
Loc: Lowell MA
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
I look forward to playing one someday.

I haven't heard a composite stringed instrument that's impressed me yet, but I'm sure Steingraeber wouldn't put out a piano that didn't sound great.

In the meantime, I'm confident I can milk my wooden soundboard for the years I'll need...


We have a Steingraeber Phoenix 212 here.

You are certainly welcome to stop by and play it ... presuming you would be in the Boston area.

All are welcome to stop by and play it.
_________________________
Has Anyone Seen My Glasses ?

E. J. Buck & Sons
Lowell MA 01852
978 458 8688
www.ejbuckpiano.com
facebook.com/E. J. Buck & Sons Performances

Top
#2018414 - 01/21/13 01:26 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Supply]
Steven Y. A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
it could also be the cutting edge technology instead of the actual manufacuturing cost. Just my guess.
_________________________
PLEYEL P124

Top
#2018424 - 01/21/13 01:41 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Pianoshel]
Larry Buck Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 2339
Loc: Lowell MA
The manufacturing cost is higher.

Considering the "Art" of piano building;
How does the carbon fiber panel behave compared to the spruce?
What needs to be done to insure it is a very successful musical instrument?

Considering the uniqueness of the carbon fiber sound board in a piano, how do you insure it excels compared to wood?

Considering the very few that are made, what is the impact of this considerable time expended on each instrument?

Oh, and, edge tools are quickly worn on the carbon fiber as it is very hard.

Having been to Steingraeber in Germany, I have seen first hand the work that goes into each Phoenix.
_________________________
Has Anyone Seen My Glasses ?

E. J. Buck & Sons
Lowell MA 01852
978 458 8688
www.ejbuckpiano.com
facebook.com/E. J. Buck & Sons Performances

Top
#2018886 - 01/22/13 09:28 AM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Pianoshel]
Ori Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/20/04
Posts: 1703
Loc: Stamford CT, New York City .
Originally Posted By: Pianoshel
Larry invited my brother, Dan, my son, David, and myself, to come up to Lowell and play the Steingraeber.

It was unvelievable! The warm tones and feelings came out so easily. The new carbon composit sound board seems like a great new invention. It sounds great and it will probably last forever. The sound was big and wholesome. It was so enjoyable to play this great instrument.

Thanks Larry,
Sheldon Powers



Pianoshell,

There is a big tonal difference between a Phoenix piano (made by Steingraeber) which is the piano that you had seen and a Steingraeber piano.

In order to highlight the separation, Udo Steingraeber considered at one point to remove the Steingraeber name from the fallboard and instead use only the Phoenix name.

Did the piano you tried say 'Steingraeber' on the fallboard, Phoenix Steingraeber or only Phoenix?

Perhaps you or Larry could relate.

While I believe all pianos made by Steingraeber are wonderful, the tonal departure is so great between a Steingraeber and a Carbon Fiber soundboard Phoenix that you'd be a miss if you thought that by trying a Phoenix you experienced the tone of a Steingraeber.


If you'd like to try Steingraeber pianos there is only one place to do so in the North Eastern US...which is here, at Allegro Pianos...so please don't be confused.

Thanks,

Ori
_________________________
Ori Bukai - Owner/Founder of Allegro Pianos - New York City and Stamford CT showrooms.

Authorized dealer representing:

Bluthner, Bosendorfer, Steingraeber, Estonia, August Forster, Haessler, Kawai.

Restored Steinway pianos.

www.allegropianos.com

Top
#2019090 - 01/22/13 02:43 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Pianoshel]
rjc Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 13
Loc: New Jersey
Ori knows best. I purchased my Steingraeber from him last year and he explained the difference between the two and guided me to the right decision. it sounds spectacular and just gets better .

Robert
_________________________
rjc

Top
#2019096 - 01/22/13 02:56 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Ori]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3321
Originally Posted By: Ori
Originally Posted By: Pianoshel
Larry invited my brother, Dan, my son, David, and myself, to come up to Lowell and play the Steingraeber.

It was unvelievable! The warm tones and feelings came out so easily. The new carbon composit sound board seems like a great new invention. It sounds great and it will probably last forever. The sound was big and wholesome. It was so enjoyable to play this great instrument.

Thanks Larry,
Sheldon Powers



Pianoshell,

There is a big tonal difference between a Phoenix piano (made by Steingraeber) which is the piano that you had seen and a Steingraeber piano.

In order to highlight the separation, Udo Steingraeber considered at one point to remove the Steingraeber name from the fallboard and instead use only the Phoenix name.

Did the piano you tried say 'Steingraeber' on the fallboard, Phoenix Steingraeber or only Phoenix?

Perhaps you or Larry could relate.

While I believe all pianos made by Steingraeber are wonderful, the tonal departure is so great between a Steingraeber and a Carbon Fiber soundboard Phoenix that you'd be a miss if you thought that by trying a Phoenix you experienced the tone of a Steingraeber.


If you'd like to try Steingraeber pianos there is only one place to do so in the North Eastern US...which is here, at Allegro Pianos...so please don't be confused.

Thanks,

Ori


As I'm sure you know, originally, Steingraeber-Phoenix pianos had spruce soundboards and standard Renner actions. The tonal differences between these and the non-Phoenix versions were quite similar. Then, carbon fiber soundboards were being installed, starting with the 170, I believe; even these, I felt were pretty similar... not the same, of course, but similar. With the introduction of the WNG action, I can see where people would start to really notice a difference in character, but I still think it sounds like a Steingraeber. I do know that Hurstwood Farm is using the Phoenix name on pianos where the acoustic body is supplied by Steingraeber, at a significantly lower price, but these pianos are only available there, I believe.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

Top
#2019212 - 01/22/13 06:29 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Pianoshel]
BoseEric Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 731
Loc: Fairfield County, CT
It seems to be getting only more confusing. Is Phoenix a brand separate from Steingraeber (made by Steingraeber but not a Steingraeber brand)?

Also, is the common thread through the Phoenix brand that those instruments are only available with carbon fiber soundboards and Phoenix bridges. If I wanted a solid soundboard and a Phoenix bridge, that piano would be called Steingraeber, not Phoenix?

Or, is ANY piano with a Phoenix bridge called a Phoenix?
_________________________
RPT. In the business: Feurich pianos, Neupert harpsichords, Hidrau benches, piano technician

Top
#2019273 - 01/22/13 07:48 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Pianoshel]
Craig Hair Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 06/03/11
Posts: 163
Loc: Holyoke, MA
I had occasion to look at this Steingraeber, and its carbon-fiber soundboard. What surprised me the most was to see how much wood is employed in its construction. From above, the carbon fiber panel is all that is visible. From below, it is clear that the ribs are wooden and that there is at least a veneer of wood between the ribs and the carbon-fiber sheet itself. There was no way to tell how thick that wood veneer was. From below it looked like a normal soundboard. So I'm not sure how much the carbon-fiber is actually involved.
_________________________
Craig Hair
Hampshire Piano
Holyoke, MA

hampshirepiano.co
soundboardrecrown.com

Either do something worth the writing,
or write something worth the reading.
S. Clemens

Top
#2019499 - 01/23/13 08:17 AM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Craig Hair]
Roy123 Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 1708
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Craig Hair
I had occasion to look at this Steingraeber, and its carbon-fiber soundboard. What surprised me the most was to see how much wood is employed in its construction. From above, the carbon fiber panel is all that is visible. From below, it is clear that the ribs are wooden and that there is at least a veneer of wood between the ribs and the carbon-fiber sheet itself. There was no way to tell how thick that wood veneer was. From below it looked like a normal soundboard. So I'm not sure how much the carbon-fiber is actually involved.


I may be wrong about this, but I seem to recall reading that a carbon-fiber only board was tried and found to produce too bright a sound. Laminating a thin wooden layer on to the carbon layer apparently provided a warmer tone. If someone knows otherwise, please correct me.

Top
#2019644 - 01/23/13 12:44 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Pianoshel]
BoseEric Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 731
Loc: Fairfield County, CT
It was my understanding, from Udo Steingraeber, that the wood veneer option is purely for cosmetic purposes, in case you feel the black color of the carbon fiber is too nontraditional for you.
_________________________
RPT. In the business: Feurich pianos, Neupert harpsichords, Hidrau benches, piano technician

Top
#2019741 - 01/23/13 04:24 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: BoseEric]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3321
Originally Posted By: BoseEric
It was my understanding, from Udo Steingraeber, that the wood veneer option is purely for cosmetic purposes, in case you feel the black color of the carbon fiber is too nontraditional for you.


This is my understanding as well. I've seen them with and without the veneer. It doesn't make any difference in the sound.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

Top
#2019744 - 01/23/13 04:30 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: BoseEric]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3321
Originally Posted By: BoseEric
It seems to be getting only more confusing. Is Phoenix a brand separate from Steingraeber (made by Steingraeber but not a Steingraeber brand)?



There's the Phoenix System, which is the bridge agraffes. Phoenix pianos are Hurstwood Farm's house brand, which uses acoustic bodies from Steingraeber, but the pianos are finished at Hurstwood, and sold for a lower price.

Originally Posted By: BoseEric
Also, is the common thread through the Phoenix brand that those instruments are only available with carbon fiber soundboards and Phoenix bridges. If I wanted a solid soundboard and a Phoenix bridge, that piano would be called Steingraeber, not Phoenix?

Or, is ANY piano with a Phoenix bridge called a Phoenix?


At least at one time, Steingraeber-Phoenix pianos were available without carbon fiber boards, too (in the beginning, that was the only option, and then they started putting CF boards in the 170). Phoenix pianos are essentially the same as the equivalent Steingraeber models, but you can only get them with CF boards and WNG action. Any piano that is entirely made by Steingraeber, in Bayreuth, will be either Steingraeber (if it doesn't have agraffes), or Steingraeber-Phoenix.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

Top
#2019825 - 01/23/13 06:15 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Steven Y. A.]
Goof Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/05/12
Posts: 352
Loc: UK
You are correct it is the technology.
On my visit to Hurstwood farm it was explained that they rely entirely on a UK company which deals exclusively in engineering carbon fiber "items" for the Min of Defence;F1 motorcars; and the aerospace industry i.e. they donot make the sound boards on site.
They also had the basics for a baby grand where carbofiber tubes took the place of the normal cast steel frame. This unit was lying on a work bench but was playable - using surprise! surprise! a WNG carbonfiber action.
They would not say but I think in the Phonix models the cf sound board has some sort of printed paper overlay to make it look like wood !!

Top
#2019834 - 01/23/13 06:26 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Goof]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3321
Originally Posted By: Goof

They would not say but I think in the Phonix models the cf sound board has some sort of printed paper overlay to make it look like wood !!


It's veneer.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

Top
#2020176 - 01/24/13 07:55 AM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: BoseEric]
Roy123 Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 1708
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: BoseEric
It was my understanding, from Udo Steingraeber, that the wood veneer option is purely for cosmetic purposes, in case you feel the black color of the carbon fiber is too nontraditional for you.


You may be correct, but if that was the goal, why would they put the wood veneer on the bottom of the soundboard and leave the carbon fiber exposed on the top for all to see?

Top
#2020230 - 01/24/13 09:50 AM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Pianoshel]
CHAS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/03
Posts: 521
Loc: Ski Country of Colorado
Had a Luis & Clark carbon fiber cello. It was too bright for me. The designer liked it that way.
My previous piano was a Kawai with carbon fiber action. My present piano is a Mason Hamlin with WNG action.
Want to hear and play a piano with a carbon fiber soundboard. Would be great to have in the Western US where the air is very dry.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A

Top
#2020842 - 01/25/13 12:48 AM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Pianoshel]
KillerCharlie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 142
What precisely, in terms of material properties, is desired in a soundboard? A certain axial/torsional stiffness? A combination of stiffness and low density?

Wood just seems like a terrible material for anything... you can modify it easily but that's about it.

Top
#2020962 - 01/25/13 07:46 AM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: KillerCharlie]
Roy123 Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 1708
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: KillerCharlie
What precisely, in terms of material properties, is desired in a soundboard? A certain axial/torsional stiffness? A combination of stiffness and low density?

Wood just seems like a terrible material for anything... you can modify it easily but that's about it.


At least in part, you would want the stiffness to weight ratio of the soundboard assembly to be within some limits. Of course, things quickly get more complicated--the piano soundboard system evolved using a highly anisotropic material, namely wood; the array of ribs helps stiffen the board to make up for the panel's very low across the grain stiffness. The subtleties of how this combination of ribs and anisotropic panel contribute to the sound may be of some sonic importance--only modeling and testing would confirm. Also, wood is a fairly highly damped material--much more so than metal or normal carbon-fiber panels. No doubt, this characteristic affects the sound.

Of course, with enough testing and development, someone could come up with a replacement for wood. The real question is what would the development costs be, and what would the recurring costs be?


Edited by Roy123 (01/25/13 08:09 AM)

Top
#2021014 - 01/25/13 09:37 AM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Roy123]
Goof Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/05/12
Posts: 352
Loc: UK
The veneer is on top of the sound board. I did not look under the grands.
I was told that the only reason for the above is to cover the carbon fiber which looks like a smooth woven black "sheet"; i.e. cosmetic.

Top
#2021098 - 01/25/13 12:30 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Goof]
Roy123 Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 1708
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Goof
The veneer is on top of the sound board. I did not look under the grands.
I was told that the only reason for the above is to cover the carbon fiber which looks like a smooth woven black "sheet"; i.e. cosmetic.


The only one I've seen is the one at Larry Buck's shop, and the top of the soundboard is carbon fiber.

Top
#2021723 - 01/26/13 03:26 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Roy123]
jim ialeggio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 621
Loc: shirley, MA
Originally Posted By: Roy123
Of course, with enough testing and development, someone could come up with a replacement for wood. The real question is what would the development costs be, and what would the recurring costs be?

Also the question is what engineering tradeoff did you buy with the new material. Every engineering improvement will be tend to "fix" a long standing problem or challenge. However these improvements are almost always accompanied by new, sometimes unintended engineering challenges.

Roy mentions the internal damping as one. Another would be that though carbon fiber does not react to RH changes, as a plastic, how reactive will it be to temperature change?? Composite Plastics can expand/contract with temperature change. I don't know the physics but suspect some pickiness with regard to temperature. Do normal occasional 10-15f deg swings throws a monkey into mix??

Jim Ialeggio


Edited by jim ialeggio (01/26/13 03:27 PM)
_________________________
Jim Ialeggio
www.grandpianosolutions.com
advanced soundboard and action redesigns
978 425-9026
Shirley Center, MA

Top
#2021827 - 01/26/13 07:25 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: jim ialeggio]
KillerCharlie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 142
Originally Posted By: Roy123

At least in part, you would want the stiffness to weight ratio of the soundboard assembly to be within some limits. Of course, things quickly get more complicated--the piano soundboard system evolved using a highly anisotropic material, namely wood; the array of ribs helps stiffen the board to make up for the panel's very low across the grain stiffness. The subtleties of how this combination of ribs and anisotropic panel contribute to the sound may be of some sonic importance--only modeling and testing would confirm.


I agree, it seems like you'd have to go away from the current rib setup to attain the same acoustic qualities. Playing around with the structural layout (and composite thickness/layup) in a vibration FEM program would be fun.



Originally Posted By: jim ialeggio

Another would be that though carbon fiber does not react to RH changes, as a plastic, how reactive will it be to temperature change?? Composite Plastics can expand/contract with temperature change. I don't know the physics but suspect some pickiness with regard to temperature. Do normal occasional 10-15f deg swings throws a monkey into mix??


No, in fact quite the opposite. Carbon fiber (woven, in an epoxy matrix, with plies in different directions) has a very low thermal expansion coefficient. In fact wood expands ten times as much as carbon fiber.

Wood is already basically a composite due to the grain. The thermal expansion and stiffness vary quite a bit depending on the direction (with or against the grain, or radially). Carbon fiber can have its properties tailored based on ply layup.

I'm really curious about the cost of the wood used in soundboards. Since it's slow growth wood it has got to be pretty expensive, and will only get more expensive in the long run. CFRP is expensive but is coming down in price as usage increases (aerospace industry).



Edited by KillerCharlie (01/26/13 07:28 PM)

Top
#2022284 - 01/27/13 05:07 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Pianoshel]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 1980
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
I just ran a little "heat" test on a WN&G hammer shank. The shank has the thickest wall of all shanks WN&G offers. I warmed up my convection oven to 170 Degrees F. Measured shank diameter at room temp was .189" (I measured 1' in from the hammer end and oriented the micrometer parallel with the striking axis of motion, The extruded carbon tubes that form the shank are a little out of round), measured overall length with calipers from inside of fork to end of shank, (did't record value since I left caliper at pre-heat dimension).

After 15 minutes I removed shank from oven and measured diameter at same location it was .189", overall length was exactly as before heating.

Of course more refined techniques would reveal any more subtle movement. But this test jibes with the engineering reports about composites I am familiar with.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

Top
#2022373 - 01/27/13 07:48 PM Re: Steingraeber Piano [Re: Pianoshel]
jim ialeggio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 621
Loc: shirley, MA
Hi Ed...

My comment was inspired by my memory of the Steingraber phoenix w/carbon fiber board at the 2011 KC convention. The air conditioning system was playing havoc with all the pianos. However, in the entire hall, the only piano that was seriously out of tune was the Steingraber.

Obviously there could be many more mundane explanations of this, such as Steingraber's tech was AWOL or awash in the lounge. One would assume the sales people who brought such a unique instrument before a high profile gathering of way-picky-conservative piano nerds, nerds who would be looking for flaws, would be paying attention to this sort of thing.

It leads me to wonder why the ambient reactivity was so strong, given the stability of the carbon fiber, lack of humidity driven migrating bridge pins, etc.

Perhaps Larry or someone with a more intimate day-to-day relationship to this creature could comment on its relative stability in normal and/or fluctuating ambient conditions.

Jim Ialeggio


Edited by jim ialeggio (01/27/13 07:53 PM)
_________________________
Jim Ialeggio
www.grandpianosolutions.com
advanced soundboard and action redesigns
978 425-9026
Shirley Center, MA

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World, Rickster 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
105 registered (36251, Allard, aesop, Al LaPorte, Abby Pianoman, 31 invisible), 1012 Guests and 20 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75969 Members
42 Forums
157106 Topics
2307303 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Does it get easier?
by Pover
08/28/14 07:10 AM
Correct fingering
by johan d
08/28/14 06:50 AM
An update on Ethan Hawke's docu about Seymour Bernstein
by music32
08/28/14 04:36 AM
Tuning the 7th octave
by AaronM
08/28/14 01:29 AM
Some Swan Lake
by harpon
08/28/14 12:53 AM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission