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#2014698 - 01/15/13 12:37 AM Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian
Steven Y. A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
Me and my wife are thinking about buying first piano to celebrate the birth of our first child coming this June.I am a self-learnt amateur piano player, but I spent majority of time listening to classical, mainly Chopin's work.

We have a budget of 10k-15k CDN. We live in a small condo (750 sqft) in Downtown Toronto.
I am very familiar with yamaha and Young Chang upright as my parents got a short yamaha upright (much shorter than U1), and my college dorm use to carry yamaha U1 and Young Chang equvalent. To be honest I didnt like them much, the tones are rather uninspiring. Ive also played three different Steinway Model Ds, 1st one is more than 100 years old, the actions are extremely heavy that I cannot play properly. The last two were relatively new and I like almost every aspect of it. (except the black keys are somehow shorter??)

So naturally I want something nice. I did a lot of research on this forum also Larry's Piano Book. During our hunt we discovered many brands that sounds extremely pleasing to my ears--My tonal preference to the tone would be (grand pianos, in descending order): A.Forster 190, C.Bechstein, Bluthner, Schimmel. We have not played any new Steinway, but the rebuilt ones were very disappointing (from Remenyi).

We figure we will eventually get a nice Grand but for now, we just started our career, couldnt afford these premium brands.

So I figure we should start with an Upright first, not just for me also for our future daughter. So I want something with best action,control and tonal palate. But most brands are out of price range. So basically there 4 pianos came into my list first:

Vogel V115 : $11500
Schimmel C120/C116 $17500
Bechstein Academy A3 (116) $17000
Grotrian Cristal $16500

I would first like to hear your opinions. As my limited techniques are not able to judge action/tonal complexity etc.
I do like the sound from these pianos. And these can be important factors for my daughter's future learning.
Seems like Vogel and Schimmel Upright both uses Renner Action, but theres very little information i can find about Renner Vertical Actions.

The other general question these are fairly small uprights, how big the gap will be between these to the taller uprights or grand piano?

Resale value isnt a consideration, we plan to get a nice Grand within 5-10 yrs, and give this to my mom.

I have not played the A.Bech and Grotrian, they came to my list purely based on research (Ontariopiano prices), I definitely will check them out, but any input on these pianos would be appreciated. I looking forward to spend apx 1yr to find the right piano.

Steven
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#2014707 - 01/15/13 01:16 AM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
rlinkt Offline
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Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 292
Loc: CA
oops -- sorry I missed the exact space constraints with the initial response.


Edited by rlinkt (01/15/13 01:18 AM)

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#2014709 - 01/15/13 01:30 AM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
musicpassion Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 789
Loc: California, USA
Well... you have good taste.

And it looks like your tastes fall withing a very particular grouping: German, very high end instruments.
Good place to be - I fell in love with an A. Forster 190 one time but wasn't in the place to buy it.

You've also done your research.

I don't have extensive experience with the models you are looking at, as they are somewhat rare instruments. Just a few thoughts that might be helpful. First, if you looked into the used market might a Bluthner or Forster upright be in range? I don't know - I don't often see them on the used market. But it seems to me that's what you really want.

Second, isn't the Bechstein Academy their lower line series? If it is, I think that would steer me towards the Grotrian or the Schimmel. I don't know enough about the Vogel to have an opinion, btw.
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#2014710 - 01/15/13 01:37 AM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
musicpassion Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 789
Loc: California, USA
Quote:
We have not played any new Steinway, but the rebuilt ones were very disappointing (from Remenyi).
I googled Remenyi and it looks like they are a piano dealer? I don't know them, but as a generalization when piano dealers restore a piano they are going to do a commercial rebuild. If it's a reputable dealer it will be reliable work, but not neccessarily of high artistic merit. A rebuild - in my opinion - is only as good as the skill and care of the rebuilder.

All of this is to say don't write off the possibility of a rebuild. A high-end, artist level rebuilder can produce stunning results. They may not be available in your area. I'm just saying don't cross it off your list based on some instruments you saw at the piano dealer.
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#2014727 - 01/15/13 02:25 AM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: musicpassion]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: musicpassion
Quote:
We have not played any new Steinway, but the rebuilt ones were very disappointing (from Remenyi).
I googled Remenyi and it looks like they are a piano dealer? I don't know them, but as a generalization when piano dealers restore a piano they are going to do a commerical rebuild. If it's a reputable dealer it will be reliable work, but not neccessarily of high artistic merit. A rebuild - in my opinion - is only as good as the skill and care of the rebuilder.
I'd say it's more like the quality of the rebuilds from piano dealers vary greatly and are not necessarily what you call a "commericial"(I guess you mean a lower quality) rebuild.

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#2014729 - 01/15/13 02:29 AM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: musicpassion]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: musicpassion
Second, isn't the Bechstein Academy their lower line series? If it is, I think that would steer me towards the Grotrian or the Schimmel. I don't know enough about the Vogel to have an opinion, btw.
But you're talking about the 2nd tier level piano from a piano maker ranked in the absolute highest class in the Fine rankings. Therefore, it's still a terrific piano ranked, if I remember correctly, in the same class as Schimmel.

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#2014761 - 01/15/13 04:51 AM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
lilylady Offline
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Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4974
Loc: boston north
Of those mentioned, my preference would be a Grotrian.

Have you also checked out the used market? More bang for your money. Those in a store would often be in a better presentable condition than the private market (gone over, tuned etc) but check out both.

I commend you for getting a piano while the child is young for her to 'grow up' with a piano being played in her home.
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#2014765 - 01/15/13 04:59 AM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
steinway guy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 10
Loc: london
Ditto to used pianos!!

They last longer than us so why buy new? Why not get a technician to help you find something to rebuild...could be the piano of your dreams!!
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#2014832 - 01/15/13 08:31 AM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
Rich D. Offline
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Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 1218
Loc: Rehoboth Beach De. USA
All good pianos on your list but Grotrian would be my first choice. The Bechstein Academy uprights I've played have been great as well and would be second. They may not be quite up with the C.Bechstein uprights but are still excellent instuments. Good luck.

Rich
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#2014835 - 01/15/13 08:40 AM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
Morodiene Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Steven Y. A.


The other general question these are fairly small uprights, how big the gap will be between these to the taller uprights or grand piano?




I haven't played the particular pianos you are looking at, so I can't comment on them. However, be sure to play each piano before deciding.

To answer the above question, there will always be quite a big difference between a good upright and a good grand. The action is very different and so the feel and responsiveness wil be better (all other things being equal). Still, going with an upright at this point in your life makes perfect sense and it appears you are looking at good models. Go with the one you like to play the most and enjoy!
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#2015108 - 01/15/13 08:16 PM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: pianoloverus]
musicpassion Offline
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Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 789
Loc: California, USA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I'd say it's more like the quality of the rebuilds from piano dealers vary greatly and are not necessarily what you call a "commericial"(I guess you mean a lower quality) rebuild.


Thanks for asking about "commercial", because explaining it will help people understand what I mean. I call it a commercial rebuild if the top priority is the bottom line. New piano builders have to make a lot of decisions about which quality of parts to use, how much time to spend regulating, voicing, etc. Rebuilders have to make many of the same decisions, and when a price point is the main concern, in my experience they perform a lot more like a consumer grade piano than the top tier artist grade instrument they once were.

I'm not saying that they're bad pianos or bad workmanship any more than I would say a consumer grade piano is a bad piano. It's just that they are not everything they could be.
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#2015110 - 01/15/13 08:26 PM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: pianoloverus]
musicpassion Offline
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Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 789
Loc: California, USA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: musicpassion
Second, isn't the Bechstein Academy their lower line series? If it is, I think that would steer me towards the Grotrian or the Schimmel. I don't know enough about the Vogel to have an opinion, btw.
But you're talking about the 2nd tier level piano from a piano maker ranked in the absolute highest class in the Fine rankings. Therefore, it's still a terrific piano ranked, if I remember correctly, in the same class as Schimmel.


I think Fine's book is a neat resource, but I place a much higher importance on playing the actual instruments (I'm not saying you feel otherwise).

As I mentioned earlier, I haven't played the models he's asking about. But when I tried an Academy series grand, I felt it was a significant drop. Perhaps the ones I played had really poor prep work or were just bad pianos. Or maybe I was feeling particularly snobbish that day. But the experience left me feeling like I wouldn't buy an Academy series.
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#2015116 - 01/15/13 08:45 PM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
Norbert Offline
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Quote:
And it looks like your tastes fall withing a very particular grouping: German, very high end instruments.


Agreed but I would at least make sure the pianos in question are indeed "German"

In my book this means very simply 100% made in Germany including all parts & components.

Norbert
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#2015118 - 01/15/13 08:51 PM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: musicpassion]
PianoWorksATL Offline
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Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2634
Loc: Atlanta, GA
From the list, I would first choose Grotrian and then Schimmel 116. Perhaps surprisingly, I prefer the 116 to the 120 for subtle reasons. I don't remember playing that Bechstein. The Vogel 115 is enough less that I would absolutely consider it.

Why will you take a year to buy a piano?

Originally Posted By: musicpassion
I'm not saying that they're bad pianos or bad workmanship any more than I would say a consumer grade piano is a bad piano. It's just that they are not everything they could be.
I know yours is a common experience, but heights can be achieved outside the factory. The walls aren't magical, but some of the people inside are. Most jobs come down to studied professionals that execute on a daily basis. Beyond credentials and experience, some people find the magic. I hope you can experience a few of their pianos.
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#2015119 - 01/15/13 08:57 PM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: PianoWorksATL]
musicpassion Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 789
Loc: California, USA
Originally Posted By: PianoWorksATL
I know yours is a common experience, but heights can be achieved outside the factory. The walls aren't magical, but some of the people inside are. Most jobs come down to studied professionals that execute on a daily basis. Beyond credentials and experience, some people find the magic. I hope you can experience a few of their pianos.


Yes, I've played great rebuilds many times and I think they often exceed the quality from the original factory. I advocate taking the rebuilding route with pianos and have chosen to do so myself.

I was trying to explain what I think the OP encountered. And yes, I have also encountered these "commercial" rebuilds many times.
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#2015184 - 01/15/13 10:56 PM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
Steven Y. A. Offline
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Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
Thank you for all they kind advices.
Yes I personally would definitely consider a lightly used, say 10 yrs old piano. anything older would need some magic. Since my wife is the one who makes the call. She also insist on a polished white finish, since it fits our home decor better, it's very rare to find anything on my list with a white finish.

The Steinway I played was a really old Louis xv, trebe is nice but overall sound very thin and small compare to other grands. The bass is very muffled, and the dynamic range is very small (almost like my mom,s old Yamaha console).

The other sound I like is from an used Baldwin, listed 8500$.

The reason for me to decide to take a yr is I'm currently on financing my wife,s ring. The term ends this June.and our daughter is coming to the world this June. So I guess I won't have any money until later of this year.

The bechstein academy upright is considerably cheaper than c.bech. I haven't had chance to carefully compare these two.the c.bech defiantly out of my price range.

I called the grotrian dealer in Toronto (merriam piano), Daniel(appears to Bethesda owner) is extremely nice. But seems I gottheprice wrong, the cristal appears around the 24000$ mrsp mark,and he highly recommend me the freidrich Grotrian, which he also owns one.

My other question would be, which action (combined with tone control) is more beneficial for kids to learn? My ear is very sensitive to distinguish characteristics from different pianist(ie, argerich tends to have a brighter tone where Ashkenazy has much sweeter tone). I wish my future instrument will be an inspiring one for my daughter.

Thanks again, I'm still at the very beginning of my piano hunting.
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#2016600 - 01/18/13 09:38 AM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
malkin Online   content
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Registered: 04/18/09
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Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
We certainly love our Vogel. That being said, had our budget been double we might have made a different choice.

If you are serious about getting a grand in the medium range future you might consider sticking to the more Vogel-ish price range for now and starting a savings fund for the future grand.
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#2017568 - 01/19/13 10:38 PM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
Steven Y. A. Offline
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Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
I spent my whole day in two different dealers and carefully examined around 20 different pianos.

Here are my impressions:
Robert Lowrey Piano:
Got a great selection of Vogel,Schimmel,Bosendorfer and some seiler. But their pianos are unpreped, as "it is" out of the box. Which makes the audition hard, i believe some pianos are not tuned to their best potential.

Vogel v115, v121, v126: They are placed next to the equivalent Schimmel C class. They basically sounds and feels like the same model piano, just with the individual difference.
Since they are unprepped, the variance between Vogel uprights are greater than Schimmel C Class.
They have very rounded and sweet tone (a little bit like Kawai), the trebe extension and sustain are amazing, However, tonal wise while sweet, but lacks a bit of colour. Bass is warm, but the dynamic range in bass is somehow below my expectation. However the room is very big, and I noticed the Schimmel C120 and Vogel v125(or6) which placed in the smaller room sounds significantly better. The action is amazing.

My conclusion is that I will always pick Vogel over Schimmel C Class for the budget reason. Vogel V115 cost 11k CAD here while Schimmel C116 cost 18k CAD.

The sales representative did offer me their special price on Schimmel Konzert K122 (which I considered out of my budget). Seems like the dynamic range increased significantly and trebe sounds move lively to my ears while still Schimmel Sound (very rounded, like waterdrop somehow) The action feels a lot smoother, and a bit lighter. But I suppose Vogel,Schimmel C and Konzert all uses same Renner upright action? My question is how important is prep work gonna change the way action works, dynamic range and tone? The K122 has a major flaw where the trebe has a surprisingly small dynamic range, smaller than Vogel V115 - I play the key very fast and hard but the sound doesnt change accordingly. But this is not the case for K125 and K13x. Is this once again has something to do with the regulation/ prep work?

Another gem I have discovered is the Vogel V180T. What an amazing performance at this price range! ($24k CAD). Everything went smoother: both action and dynamic range. And I do realize the difference between upright and grand. Upright action feels a bit more "rigid" and "stiff", but repetition speed wise it doesnt affect me. (I guess I am a slow player)
Once again I noticed the price different between Vogel 180T and Schimmel C182 doesnt not reflect in performance. They are somewhat different from Vogel upright vs Schimmel C upright but still very close.
I try to sneak underneath the piano and find out Vogel has done a poor job painting the ribs, feels like they spent 3 minutes brushing them, but that's the only complain I have.
The Konzert series grand is truly amazing, I particularly like the small Konzert K169, feels the best while I have no complain about the bass.

to be continued...
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#2017577 - 01/19/13 11:05 PM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
Steven Y. A. Offline
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Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
In the afternoon I went to Remenyi again to try out the August Forster, Bechstein, Bluthner, NY Steinway, Seiler and Sauter Piano.
The sales person Brendan recognized me and introduced me to the owner Mr. Remenyi. And I spent a really pleasing 3 hours trying out their selections.

August Forster 126 (or 125): Wow! The first thing I realize is that Remenyi do prep their piano. The AF 126 shares the same toner characteristics as their Grands. Amazing upper register tone and sustain (or extension). The resonance is amazing, when I press down the sustain pedal, notes still last a long time. I went back to the AF Grand immediately (190,170,215), yes Grand is better in everyway but their Upright is surprisingly close to their Grands in almost everyway. I love the Touch of August Forster. However the price tag is over my budget (26k) and the owner says their AF 116 is cheaper, at around 21k mark. While still over my budget but I know this is the piano I would love.

My other discovery is how well AF170 stands against the AF190 and AF215. I have absolutely no complain about AF170 at all, even the low bass section. I fact, I think AF grand has the best sounding bass to my ear. They dont have AF116 but I almost certain I will be happy with the AF116.

C.Bechstein Grand vs. Bechstein Academy Grand: The more I play the more love I have for these piano. The upper register has a very special "golden" or "brilliante" touch to it, with amazing sustain. Where the C.Bechstein holds up slightly more "golden" signature sound, but if theres a blind test, I am sure I could not tell. Once again C.Bech cost almost twice as much as Bech Academy. Aside from the discussion on Bechstein Academy using Czech parts, simpler design, Chinese made Silverline Renner Action. The product is still phenomenal. It is: if I like the Bechstein Sound the most, I will pick Bechstein Academy over any other brand, and the only better thing will be the C.Bechstein. The action are very similar, maybe C.Bech must be better, but I am too poor to judge.
The more I play, the move I love Bechstein. Then I compare Bechstein to A.Forster, I realize Bechstein seem to have more complexity in tone: the different way you touch the key gives you a different response in tone, is somehow easier to control than August Forster. Where I can easily get more of a volume difference from an Forster Piano, but tonal wise more difficult, specially on the pianissimo part, i find its easier or more interesting to play on Bechstein (both C. and Academy) than August Forster. This really confuses me, I would need an expert opinion on this, or maybe try to bring a better pianist with me next time.

The only upright they have is, I believe a C.Bechstein Classic 124. The difference between Bechstein Grand and Upright is excatly the difference between AF Grand and upright. I start to think this is the best result manufacture can possibly achieve.
The price tag is very high, 34K ish i think. But the Bechstein Academy A3/A2 is closer to 20k. And I am very positive on the Academy series, it will be hard for me the judge between the AF116 and Bechstein Academy A3/A2.

to be continued...
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#2017593 - 01/19/13 11:31 PM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
Steven Y. A. Offline
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Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
Steinway Model K: I could not believe how bad they sound. Treble is very tiny and thin. Action is ok not close to Renner upright action Vogel/Schimmel/A.Forster and Bechstein (ibelive they have their our upright action). They carry 4 model K, 1 new, 3 preowned. I guess a part of my always wanted Steinway, but after I tried the AF and Bechstein uprights NY Steinway K sound like a (or even 2)league below. I guess I value treble section too much but I couldnt understand the general statement about "thin european treble sound".

Steinway Grand Model A (new): this is where I confirm my Steinway dream ends. The model A has the same treble to their model K, and all the other preowned Steinway I have played (except 1 steinway from 1920): tiny and thin. They sit next to Bechstein 190 (ish), the Bechstein Academy sounds much better. But one thing I particularly like about Steinway A is the action and control, while every different from Renner, the capability of producing different tone at a quite level is very easy on Steinway Model A - which can be done on Bechstein, but difficult (for me) on A.Forster. But tonal wise to me there is no comparison: AF,Bechstein (both C. and Academy) are whole level better at least.

In the end I rank Steinway model the same as Vogel v121/Schimmel C120. and below Schimmel Konzert. I know it sounds ridiculous but this is just my personal biased opinion.

Other Pianos:

Seiler Upright: the one with magnetic action, with very high price tag of 24k, sorry sound like PearlRiver to my ear. Very muffled. Action is much heavier. Not my cup of tea.

Bluthner Upright: I believe its the 130cm ish model. They do not sound close to their grands compare to AF or Bechstein. The price tag is the highest (close to 40k). Mid range is colourless, and action is very different.(which O clearly prefer renner). Grands sound amazing, very special treble, mid and bass not my favorte, a bit dark or less colour to my taste, but I can almost see why Rachmaninov loves Bluthner. Very expensive.

Sauter Rondo (upright): I found this piano on my way out, didn't spend much time. But their Grand doesnt catch me as much as the AF and Bechstein did.

I still have 1 more store to check that is Merriam Piano. I sense something special about Grotrian is waiting for me. I will try to visit their store next weekend and let you guys know. Please throw in any thoughts you have.
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#2018124 - 01/21/13 01:47 AM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
musicpassion Offline
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Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 789
Loc: California, USA
Sounds like you've been having fun shopping smile

Since you're talking a lot about the treble, I think you might enjoy the Grotrian. I've found their upper register very pleasing and I think they have a reputation for that characteristic.
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#2018257 - 01/21/13 09:51 AM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Loc: New York City
Are you still planning to only get a white piano? Have all of the pianos you've mentioned been white?

Since white or ivory colored pianos are very rare you will greatly limit your choices if that is the only color you want. Yes, it's probably possible to special order a white version of some piano you like, but it's likely this would require a commitment on your part to buy it. This, depending on your fussiness about tone and touch, could be taking a chance because not every piano of the same make and model sounds the same.

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#2018303 - 01/21/13 10:51 AM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
Steven Y. A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
Yes its such a wonderful experience to touch the finest instruments.

NONE of the pianos ive played are white. but my wife still insists on getting the white piano. Depends on the make, it make take up to 5-6 months to order the polish white finish.
I think except for the Schimmel Konzert upright series, all other models have the option with polish white finishing. I guess it takes a bit of a luck.

Does anyone have experience on the smaller Bechstein Academy upright? like A112 or A3, A2. How do they compare to the C.Bechstein of equavilent size (i've played C.Bech classic 124)? I dont think anyone carries them in Toronto.
_________________________
PLEYEL P124

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#2018410 - 01/21/13 01:23 PM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
malkin Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2202
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
It's a little off topic, and none of my business, but I'm curious about how your home is furnished that makes a white finish preferable. (not critical, just wondering)

Modern, maybe? I'm guessing that your home is fairly well put together too.
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

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#2018418 - 01/21/13 01:32 PM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
Steven Y. A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
i live in a highrise condo (releatively new) in downtown Toronto by the lake Ontario.
its a bit like this (not my home)
http://www.builddirect.com/images/addinfoimages/peru_gingerwood_room.jpg
with a brighter and cooler laminate floor (very special).

my occupation is architect.
_________________________
PLEYEL P124

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#2018436 - 01/21/13 01:59 PM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
malkin Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2202
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
That's beautiful!
I agree with your wife; a white piano will look great in there!
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

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#2021842 - 01/26/13 07:58 PM Re: Need Advice- Upright:Vogel, A.Bechstein,Schimmel,Grotrian [Re: Steven Y. A.]
Steven Y. A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 291
Loc: Toronto
Just got back from my 2nd round of Piano hunting.
Today I went with one of my best friend - who doesnt play piano at all but willing to purchase a good upright (he has more money than I do) for his fiancée.

I visited the Merriam Piano at Oakville location.
What a surprise by this little giant Frederick Grotrian! I couldnt believe the sound came out from this little guy, completely outshines the Kawai GE30 Grand for the same price.
And it stood very well against his bigger brother Canto.
I want to say that despite "Frederick" belongs to a different line. It has the identical tonal character, touch and feel to all the other Grotrian uprights - They are basically the same lineup except Frederick has a simpler cabinet with no "Cross" back post.
Mason & Hamlin is decent, very rich tone but somehow less exciting to my ears.
The Concertino is significantly better, but way too expensive.

However, strange enough I didn't like the Grotrian grand that much. as well as the Shigeru Kawai - the sound is too rounded and warm for me.

Checked out their Yamaha U5, very impressive. Significantly better than U1 and Kawai K3. Its actually the only Japanese made upright I liked so far.

I am excited when my friend is telling me his feeling regarding to the different pianos. So I take him to the other two dealers to check out all the pianos I liked.

Guess what, hes immediately sold after he heard the Schimmel Konzert K122. He told me the tone implies a hint of "happiness" and "elegance", and couldn't stop smiling when he heard the tone. I found it very fascinating, and trying to imagine what if my future daughter play on this "Piano of Happiness ". I am thinking to bring my wife with me next time and ask her opinion.

Steven
_________________________
PLEYEL P124

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