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#2019713 - 01/23/13 03:28 PM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: BruceD]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19296
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: BruceD
How does "a historic occasion" differ from "an historic occasion" with respect to number agreement with the noun?....

You're surely right. There's no possible issue of 'agreement in number.'

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#2019745 - 01/23/13 04:31 PM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: BruceD]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19105
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef
Remember diagramming sentences in English class? I believe that affectations such as "AN historic occasion" are an effort to make the article agree in number with the noun, [...]


How does "a historic occasion" differ from "an historic occasion" with respect to number agreement with the noun?

It's a question of the (perceived) vowel quality of the "h" in historic, isn't it? Similarly, one would say : "a grand piano" but "an expensive piano;" the agreement remains singular between the indefinite article and the noun.

Regards,
Of course, even I knew that and I usually have no idea about any grammar or usage questions that appear(for no good reason) at PW.

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#2019858 - 01/23/13 07:10 PM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: pianoloverus]
Rostosky Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
This "an" or "a" grammatical usage has got me very confused and perplexed.

Are you guys saying it is incorrect to use "an" in a sentence like say for example: "He was an histrionic pedant?"
_________________________


Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

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#2019877 - 01/23/13 07:31 PM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: Rostosky]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17674
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: Rostosky
This "an" or "a" grammatical usage has got me very confused and perplexed.

Are you guys saying it is incorrect to use "an" in a sentence like say for example: "He was an histrionic pedant?"


It's quite simply a question of "a" before a consonant and "an" before a vowel. The word following "a" or "an" can be a noun or an adjective or an adverb.

An emperor.
A stupid emperor!
An insufferable emperor!
An incredibly stupid emperor!

In all examples, "emperor" is singular and so are "a" and "an."

"Histrionic," "historic," and similar words are considered by some to begin with non-aspirated, or silent "h" - even though the "h" is pronounced! - in which case those persons would speak and write "an historic occasion" - considered by some to be pedantic.

Such words as "hour," "honor," "honesty," do begin with a non-aspirated "h" so one would always write : "See you in an hour." It's an honor to know you." etc. ...

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony
Writing from Paris until 15 May, 2014

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#2019923 - 01/23/13 09:01 PM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: BruceD]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19296
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: BruceD
...."Histrionic," "historic," and similar words are considered by some to begin with non-aspirated, or silent "h" - even though the "h" is pronounced! - in which case those persons would speak and write "an historic occasion" - considered by some to be pedantic....

It's pedantic. ha

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#2019925 - 01/23/13 09:05 PM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: BruceD]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19296
Loc: New York
.....although.....

I imagine lots of us are familiar with this album (which I still have the LP of):



....although another Amazon page for it calls it "A" Historic Return. ha

And of course this doesn't prove anything, because we'd probably consider the album title pedantic.

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#2019927 - 01/23/13 09:08 PM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: BruceD]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19296
Loc: New York
....and then there was this album which parodied the above, with the "an" probably being part of what they thought was funny, and I agree:


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#2020023 - 01/24/13 12:29 AM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: pianoloverus]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
This chap went to a decent school ...

“It's quite simply a question of "a" before a consonant and "an" before a vowel.
The word following "a" or "an" can be a noun or an adjective or an adverb.”

Top marks BruceD ... but if only those American chappies
could spell words like "honour" correctly ... the baseball enthusiasts keep dropping their "u's" ...
we more cultured types play the gentleman's game of cricket, don't you know (straight-bat and all that rot).

Some say that Bach played cricket ... his finger-dexterity must have made him a very good spin-bowler.

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#2020025 - 01/24/13 12:37 AM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: btb]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3738
Loc: Rockford, IL
Basebaul.

Please, btb. Get it right!
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2020031 - 01/24/13 12:41 AM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: btb]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3738
Loc: Rockford, IL
Basebawl.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2020032 - 01/24/13 12:41 AM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: btb]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3738
Loc: Rockford, IL
Basebrawl.

Doh! Whatever...
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2020033 - 01/24/13 12:42 AM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: pianoloverus]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Some chaps can't even spell basebawl right.

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#2020038 - 01/24/13 12:48 AM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: btb]
Ferdinand Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 926
Loc: California
I challenge anyone to rearrange the title of this thread so that it does not end with a preposition.

It's not Bach, but this is a nice performance of a sarabande, in period costume.
Sarabande by Il Giardino Harmonico

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#2020053 - 01/24/13 01:33 AM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: Ferdinand]
AldenH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Ferdinand
I challenge anyone to rearrange the title of this thread so that it does not end with a preposition.


"Should one dance to the Bach Dance Suites?"

"Were the Bach Dance Suites intended for dancing occasions?

"Perchance upon a pretty lass / when all you've got is a good Bach polonass / what's a lad to do / but to run the whole suite through?"

...

I should probably get some sleep XD

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#2020055 - 01/24/13 01:37 AM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: pianoloverus]
KurtZ Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 776
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
You could just drop the last "to" and I think the meaning would still be clear. Or, may I suggest, "Were they meant to be danced to, the bach suites?

do I win something?

This thread is all tommyrot and twaddle up with which I will not put!

KZ
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

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#2020075 - 01/24/13 02:33 AM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: Ferdinand]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19296
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Ferdinand
I challenge anyone to rearrange the title of this thread so that it does not end with a preposition.

Were the Bach Dance Suites meant as pieces to which to be danced...........to? ha

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#2020090 - 01/24/13 03:38 AM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: pianoloverus]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5835
Loc: Down Under
Were the Bach dance suites intended for actual dancing?
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#2020348 - 01/24/13 01:15 PM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: pianoloverus]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17674
Loc: Victoria, BC
How much more of this do we have to up with put? smile

Cheers!
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony
Writing from Paris until 15 May, 2014

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#2020567 - 01/24/13 04:55 PM Re: Were the Bach Dance Suites meant to be danced to? [Re: currawong]
Damon Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 5920
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: currawong
Were the Bach dance suites intended for actual dancing?


thumb

Most folks just try to rearrange the words, but it's usually easy to just change the words. For instance, instead of saying "for what" as opposed to "what for", you can simply ask "why".
_________________________
Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.

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