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#2019637 - 01/23/13 12:33 PM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1680
Loc: London, England
Max. Do you understand that 9 O'clock on an upright is the exact opposite of the 9 O'clock that you are using on the grand in terms of how the lever acts on the pin and string??.

You have prematurely published your rather odd findings on tuning lever angles for your teaching videos so it seems you have developed a vested interest in your theories. Your two latest videos are mutually contradictory on this hammer angle point. Quite frankly, it betrays that you have no real grasp of what you are advocating.

The note that you used to demonstrate your technique went wildly out of tune in seconds after you 'tuned' it without you even playing it. We all heard it at the end of the Yamaha grand video yet you seemed blissfully unaware of this. We watched you tune it and just knew it wouldnt stay there. It all demonstrates conclusively that your theories and the way you put them into practice simply do not work. None of this adds to your credibility, You are misleading the 'young Russian tuners' you speak of, many of whom must have found this thread by now.

While you have made some improvement, it counts for nothing because most of it goes back out of tune immediately.

This thread is not an entire waste of time. Others have learned a lot through this thread because of your persistence in demonstrating the way not to do what we are saying and how to do it the hard way.

I know of one new tuner who is tuning for a major conservatory now. (anybody who wants to become a solid tuner would do well to put in some time at a music department). He is doing a great job and has learned to tune pianos to that level in far less than the time you have been posting here.

For my part, I am gaining an understanding of and compassion towards certain aspects of those with learning disabilities.


Edited by rxd (01/23/13 03:07 PM)
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#2019642 - 01/23/13 12:40 PM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
pianolive Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 319
Loc: Europe
Hello Max,

After reading your postings on this board, I wonder what you are doing and what your goals are. So far it seems that you have not made any noticeable progress. Your tunings are bad, you have not shown a temperament, the choirs are out of tune, you keep plucking the strings, you use your homemade tools.

I am aware of the problem of not having a mentor, but people here have shown links to many good videos.

The course you got from Dan Silverwood is as close you can come to a mentor, and I sent you the tuning tools.

We actually did send you some very good stuff by which you should have been able to do quite some progress! Not to mention the value of this to a total cost of about 2000 USD.

And what do you spend your time on? Posting on the forum all day long telling us you have lots of free time. So lots of free time, but no time to learn properly.

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#2019668 - 01/23/13 01:40 PM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: pianolive]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3336
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: pianolive

The course you got from Dan Silverwood is as close you can come to a mentor, and I sent you the tuning tools.....

We actually did send you some very good stuff by which you should have been able to do quite some progress! Not to mention the value of this to a total cost of about 2000 USD......



I wish somebody would send me $2,000 of tuning education and tools! I'd do it exactly the way I was told if somebody invested in me like that.

Max, I think it's time you abandoned your own theories and just spend some time doing things exactly as you are told. Just consider it an experiment where you can learn something by just copying the masters on this forum. Even if you don't understand the method you are using or totally disagree with it, just do it anyway. Try it for 2 months and see where it leads you. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the results.

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#2019689 - 01/23/13 02:38 PM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4182
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Originally Posted By: pianolive
Hello Max,
After reading your postings on this board, I wonder what you are doing and what your goals are. So far it seems that you have not made any noticeable progress. Your tunings are bad, you have not shown a temperament, the choirs are out of tune, you keep plucking the strings, you use your homemade tools.
I am aware of the problem of not having a mentor, but people here have shown links to many good videos.
The course you got from Dan Silverwood is as close you can come to a mentor, and I sent you the tuning tools.
We actually did send you some very good stuff by which you should have been able to do quite some progress! Not to mention the value of this to a total cost of about 2000 USD.
And what do you spend your time on? Posting on the forum all day long telling us you have lots of free time. So lots of free time, but no time to learn properly.


Yes, it was a considerable investment in Max’s future success.

I could send the DVD’s once again but there is no guarantee they will make it a second time, as they did not make it the first time. There is no way to disguise the package as customs require a description of the contents.

Disappointing to not witness more in the way of improved results and development from Max up to this point.

That is a good question pianolive. I am wondering where Max would see himself 2 years from now or 5 years from now.

Originally Posted By: ando

Max, I think it's time you abandoned your own theories and just spend some time doing things exactly as you are told. Just consider it an experiment where you can learn something by just copying the masters on this forum. Even if you don't understand the method you are using or totally disagree with it, just do it anyway. Try it for 2 months and see where it leads you. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the results.


Exactly the point. We need cooperation from Max if he is to develop the proper skill set.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2020013 - 01/24/13 12:02 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: pianolive]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1429
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: pianolive
Not to mention the value of this to a total cost of about 2000 USD.

pianolive,thank you for sending tools. I am very sorry that it was not able to help me to learn the subject tuning of the piano. (Не в коня корм) "Not in horse feed"
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#2020037 - 01/24/13 12:47 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: rxd]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1429
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: rxd
Max. Do you understand that 9 O'clock on an upright is the exact opposite of the 9 O'clock that you are using on the grand in terms of how the lever acts on the pin and string??.
Quite frankly, it betrays that you have no real grasp of what you are advocating.

rxd, perhaps you do not quite understood my idea about using the handle of any hammer (T-bar L-Hammer) positioned only a left. The basis is a idea to completely eliminate the bending pins. A pin works only as a rotate moment. This is possible only when the position of the handle is located left and it's moves only (from 9 by 12) up. This statement is based on the laws of physics. It is fair to configure as grands, and to the verticals.
Maybe my explanation will be more apparent here. A clip translated into English.


if tuning grand need handle right from 15 to 6 down.



Edited by Maximillyan (01/25/13 12:17 AM)
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#2020047 - 01/24/13 01:10 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: ando]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1429
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: pianolive

The course you got from Dan Silverwood is as close you can come to a mentor, and I sent you the tuning tools.....

We actually did send you some very good stuff by which you should have been able to do quite some progress! Not to mention the value of this to a total cost of about 2000 USD......


Even if you don't understand the method you are using or totally disagree with it, just do it anyway. Try it for 2 months and see where it leads you. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the results.

This method was born in my head no as the result of my own ambitions. I do not want its usefulness. I made ​​use of this method because stark reality condition pinblock piano, which I'm tuning is very bad. If I did not use this method, I could not save more than 30 oldest badly worn piano. The result is positive, I use this with the beginning of summer. Even if the pin is almost dangled in the hole of pinblock,I was able to fix it's dead without cardboard shim.
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#2020059 - 01/24/13 01:45 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2340
Loc: Olympia, WA
Max,

Here is a link to a recording I made of a temperament I set recently on 7' grand in a high school theater. There is not temperament strip in the piano - in other words all unisons are open.

This is the type of recording that will help us better evaluate how you are doing with your tuning. Play thirds, and 6ths and 10ths. Chromatic progressions can tell us a lot about the smoothness of a tuning.

http://yourlisten.com/channel/content/16945052/Tuning_at_Shelton_High_School
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#2020071 - 01/24/13 02:07 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: rysowers]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1429
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: rysowers

This is the type of recording that will help us better evaluate how you are doing with your tuning. Play thirds, and 6ths and 10ths. Chromatic progressions can tell us a lot about the smoothness of a tuning.

http://yourlisten.com/channel/content/16945052/Tuning_at_Shelton_High_School

Thank,rysowers.I always play thirds, 4 and 5 after end of tuning . Chromatic gamma is not for me usefully. I don't hear important change when I'm play it's
Regards,
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#2020077 - 01/24/13 02:35 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
Olek Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 6358
Loc: France
Max believe that the left lever is solution for blocking the pin when it does not hold.

This method will oblige to repair sooner, a tired pin will be MORE firm with the lever in 12:00 13:00 position. But it have to be understood well.

Just an illusion, and Max believe he is Master tuner and talk and talk then do fancy things with talk and talk

Max still is afraid of the strings and does not listen the real tone because it is too harsh and too noisy. Use foam in your ears if this is the problem

It is normal when you begin to learn but signal you not learning fast enough.

Learn use normal methods then it will begin to be better.

Tune only vertical pianos for the moment, you put the grand at risk, my opinion..

Sorry to have to say but it is exhausting ...



I tested left hammer FOR Verticals ONLY. NO MUCH CONTROL in my opinion. the pin seem to be set but it is light setting







Edited by Olek (01/24/13 03:51 AM)
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2020100 - 01/24/13 04:35 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Olek]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1429
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Olek
Max believe that the left lever is solution for blocking the pin when it does not hold.

This method will oblige to repair sooner, a tired pin will be MORE firm with the lever in 12:00 13:00 position.

Just an illusion,

I tested left hammer FOR Verticals ONLY. NO MUCH CONTROL in my opinion. the pin seem to be set but it is light setting


This is not Max thinks so. These are the laws of modern physics have prompted him to do just that.
"tired pins" will not work better when the L-hammer position of the handle 12:00 13:00 because at this position pin will bent. It employs an additional compression by string downward.

"Just an illusion" that's life.

"but it's light setting" What this light setting?
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#2020101 - 01/24/13 04:41 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
Olek Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 6358
Loc: France
Light setting mean the tuning does not hold long

Forget physic law, or understand them better, a good deep pin setting mean the pin try to raise the string, and it is possible even on tired pinblocks
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2020102 - 01/24/13 04:43 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Olek]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1429
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Olek

Tune only vertical pianos for the moment, you put the grand at risk, my opinion..

No risks.It is much painless than the rotation of the handle the hammer setting right side
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#2020109 - 01/24/13 05:08 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
Olek Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 6358
Loc: France
No because you push on the part of the hole used to grip , on a grand , hammer at 12 :00 ideal, to 15:00 if there are wood bushings..

The pin can twist , more or less , it does not break. The inside of the hole have to be perceived well when the pin is set, and protected when you raise the string.

You use your thumb to regulate the effort on the hammer, or vary hammer position between raising above pitch , and tuning (setting the pin )

For instance on a grand 14:00 15:0 0 to raise , then 12: 00 13:00 to set the pin.

With 9:00 position on a vertical the pin is too free and grip high. We want the pin to grip from its bottom end.

The
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2020115 - 01/24/13 05:22 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: pianolive]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1429
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: pianolive
Not to mention the value of this to a total cost of about 2000 USD.

When I learned that the hammer sent from Sweden (used) is $ 2000, I was discouraged. At the first opportunity I sent it back, but do not have the material possibility
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#2020117 - 01/24/13 05:33 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Olek]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1429
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Olek


You use your thumb to regulate the effort on the hammer, or vary hammer position between raising above pitch , and tuning (setting the pin )
I'm just tuning

With 9:00 position on a vertical the pin is too free and grip high. We want the pin to grip from its bottom end.
Why it's works in grand. I'm don't understood
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#2020122 - 01/24/13 05:59 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
Phil D Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 551
Loc: London, England
This is heartbreaking
_________________________
Phil Dickson
The Cycling Piano Tuner

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#2020161 - 01/24/13 07:23 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Olek]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1429
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Olek
Light setting mean the tuning does not hold long

In your words there is not elementary logic. "Deep, Correct, Long hold this tuning" when the handle to the right by, You says . If the handle is the left light by then tuning, which will be short-lived. All directly opposite. I am convinced that if the handle is the hammer by the left this system will be more stable in the long hold of a pitch. If anyone would tuning a new piano by this method, it should not be upset long time. However, I am unable to carry out such a test
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#2020180 - 01/24/13 08:11 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
Mark R. Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 1866
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Max,

Have you even realised that 9:00 in a grand piano corresponds to 15:00 in an upright? In a grand piano, the tension of the string pulls the pin towards 12:00. In an upright, the string's tension pulls the pin towards 6:00.
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.

1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

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#2020189 - 01/24/13 08:26 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3336
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Maximillyan
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: pianolive

The course you got from Dan Silverwood is as close you can come to a mentor, and I sent you the tuning tools.....

We actually did send you some very good stuff by which you should have been able to do quite some progress! Not to mention the value of this to a total cost of about 2000 USD......


Even if you don't understand the method you are using or totally disagree with it, just do it anyway. Try it for 2 months and see where it leads you. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the results.

This method was born in my head no as the result of my own ambitions. I do not want its usefulness. I made ​​use of this method because stark reality condition pinblock piano, which I'm tuning is very bad. If I did not use this method, I could not save more than 30 oldest badly worn piano. The result is positive, I use this with the beginning of summer. Even if the pin is almost dangled in the hole of pinblock,I was able to fix it's dead without cardboard shim.


Max, I must repeat to you - you need to follow the traditional methods that have been described to you. Forget your physics, forget your theories - just for a while at least. I believe you have too many ideas in your head and you are missing the basic fundamentals of good tuning. I've tuned a very old, worn out piano with loose pins, and you know what? I was still able to get it into reasonable tune by using the traditional hammer technique.

I feel that by using your tool that tries to avoid stressing the pin block or flexing the pins, you have no chance of setting the pin in a stable way. You are saying that pushing the pin against the block is always bad, but it is part of setting the pin. You also need to do strong test blows when you tune to equalise tension in different parts of the string and to test if the note will hold its pitch. No more plectrums for tuning!

I don't believe that all the problems you are facing are because all the pianos in Kazakhstan are terrible or untunable. I believe you are adding too many of your own theories to the process. Please - just try the methods that have been described to you here. Just do them for a week. It doesn't matter if you think they won't work - try them anyway. That way you will learn what these techniques are for and it will change the way you work. What have you got to lose? You have time to experiment. Even just to show respect to the people who have offered help to you, you should try it their way.

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#2020211 - 01/24/13 09:12 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
pianolive Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 319
Loc: Europe

[/quote]
When I learned that the hammer sent from Sweden (used) is $ 2000, I was discouraged. At the first opportunity I sent it back, but do not have the material possibility [/quote]

Heartbreaking Max, but this is what I wrote, and "we" refers to both Dan and I:
We actually did send you some very good stuff by which you should have been able to do quite some progress! Not to mention the value of this to a total cost of about 2000 USD.

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#2020224 - 01/24/13 09:38 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1680
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: Maximillyan
Originally Posted By: Olek


You use your thumb to regulate the effort on the hammer, or vary hammer position between raising above pitch , and tuning (setting the pin )
I'm just tuning

With 9:00 position on a vertical the pin is too free and grip high. We want the pin to grip from its bottom end.
Why it's works in grand. I'm don't understood


Isaac is the first to mention the importance of thumb pressure on the side of the shaft of the tuning lever to regulate the effort. Used as a sort of fulcrum, the thumb gives more control over the flagpoling while transfering the turning motion of the lever to the pin. This used to be the standard method of tuning but has gone off the radar in the last couple of generations. I have not seen a photographic example of this grip used in tuning an upright anywhere on the Internet. If anybody can find one or make one, please post it. many of us know that, while the fingers pull the lever round clockwise from the 12 or 1 O'clock position, the thumb is positioned halfway between the fingers and the tuning tip, pushing against the tendency to flagpole.
Most tuners use the thumb this way when tuning a grand, I don't see much on an upright.

To use a lever at the 9 Oclock angle on an upright without any form of control over flagpoling as we see Max doing means that you have to overdraw the string more than necessary in order to set the pin properly. this is because the flagpoling is up and down making for even more instability. On the other hand, to use the lever at 12 O'clock makes the flagpoling side to side and affects the pitch less. Remember the object is to move the string as little as necessary.

Max. I do see the point that you are trying to make. It is your own version of something you were told on the UK thread over a year ago. I'm pleased that you remember enough to reiterate it.

Let's all be aware that I am no longer discussing the use of a tuning lever but discussing the use of the T- hammer, more specifically, Max's hardware Store tool. If Max wants to use it, his education in its use should be more complete. So here goes;

Let me go into living history mode for a paragraph.

The T hammer is now not used much as a tuning tool but many older tuners used one regularly around 50 years ago in parts of Europe when i was learning. It is possible to do really solid tuning using a T- hammer. At least one tuning school insisted that their students used one exclusively for the first year before being allowed to use a lever. I assume that the pianos they were taught on were not brand new and had some age and useage on the pinblocks. Levers were only used for tight pins once the feel had been learned from a T- hammer. Levers were originally very much the province of the factory floor.

Sometimes pins can be too loose for good control with a T hammer and a lever is best.

Anybody who had ever seen a piano with all original oblong tuning pins and strings will note that, ever after over 100 years of tuning, the pins all face in the same direction. This gives a hint at the position of the T- hammer or lever used in tuning when the piano was new.

Max, I saw your video, thank you for the trouble that you went to. You mention a beautiful sound and how long a piano stays in tune when done your way. My only question on both counts has to be; why, then, doesn't it ? It is readily apparent that your method isn't working. Also, the unison you used as an example would never sound good because you are attempting g to tu e a 3rd string to two strings that are out of tune with each other and you didn't seem to be aware of that.

Since you are insisting on using your T- bar, I have no problem with that. May I first suggest that you slide the T bar part to half way so that the tool looks like a letter 'T'. Since it is a makeshift tool anyway, I suggest you wrap some duct tape or similar tightly and neatly round the handle and part of the stem to hold it in position and make the handle fatter and the whole tool more comfortable to use until you can obtain the proper tool.

When you use it as an L- lever, even holding it close to the long stem, your theory, while basically good in intention, will not work in practice. The only way to control flagpoling completely is to have equal pressures all around the pin turning axis. The only way to achieve that with only one hand is by the use of a T- shaped tuning hammer.

Now I will describe the way of holding the tool in that T configuration so that you can use it to eliminate all the flagpoling from the turning motion on an upright piano or to exert a deliberate flagpoling motion without turning it.

I suggest all tuners give this a try with their own T hammers as an excercise in how easy it is to isolate turning motions from flagpoling motions using this tool in a way that is almost impossible with a lever.

Simply grip the handle with the thumb and first two fingers on one side of the stem and the ring finger and pinky (little finger) on the other side. The heel of the hand, (fleshy part opposite the thumb aids in the clockwise turning on an upright. Place it on the pin in the position that is most comfortable, usually 10 to 4. With complete control over flagpoling at any angle, it really doesn't matter. Might as well be comfortable.

On a grand it is sImilar but the wrist is dropped so that the thumb pushes the hammer clockwise, the flagpoling is controlled by the rest of the hand. for counterclockwise, the heel of the hand pushes, the flagpoling again being controled by the rest of the hand.

I have gone into detail about what may seem obvious but the T hammer is the only way to feel and exert complete control over all aspects of pin movement. It takes a combination of strength and delicacy and is easily misused, particularly with the length of the stem. Too much flagpoling can easily be exerted, particularly the way Max is using it, but some is often necessary in a more controlled way than Max's awareness permits

Max. It is vitally important that the strings stay where you put them because each string you tune is dependant on the one before it.....and the one before that, etcetera.

If anyone has information on the use of T- hammer in other cultures, I would love to know.


Edited by rxd (01/24/13 11:36 AM)
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#2020284 - 01/24/13 11:38 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4182
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Maximillyan

When I learned that the hammer sent from Sweden (used) is $ 2000, I was discouraged. At the first opportunity I sent it back, but do not have the material possibility


The tuning hammer was not $2000.00. The Randy Potter complete course, the Reblitz edition, and the other instructional books sent, along with the tools and shipping ads up to that amount.

I do not want any of the materials returned to me. I am quite sure, after speaking with pianolive on the phone, that he does not want the tools returned.

Best of luck Max.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#2020297 - 01/24/13 12:05 PM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1429
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos
Originally Posted By: Maximillyan

When I learned that the hammer sent from Sweden (used) is $ 2000, I was discouraged. At the first opportunity I sent it back, but do not have the material possibility


The tuning hammer was not $2000.00. The Randy Potter complete course, the Reblitz edition, and the other instructional books sent, along with the tools and shipping ads up to that amount.

I do not want any of the materials returned to me. I am quite sure, after speaking with pianolive on the phone, that he does not want the tools returned.

Best of luck Max.

If I had the opportunity to return it all back, I would do it immediately. However, I do not can to do that. Besides mail Kazakhstan works very badly and I could not guarantee the safety of sent back a things. I thought it was a gift, even if I use it badly. In Russian there is a saying: "do not look a gift horse in the mouth"
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#2020306 - 01/24/13 12:14 PM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
Phil D Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 551
Loc: London, England
Max, they were gifts. Gifts that had already been used by other people - I do not think they were bought especially for you. They just have value, that is all. Use them well smile
_________________________
Phil Dickson
The Cycling Piano Tuner

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#2020307 - 01/24/13 12:16 PM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: rxd]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1429
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: rxd
Originally Posted By: Maximillyan
Originally Posted By: Olek


You use your thumb to regulate the effort on the hammer, or vary hammer position between raising above pitch , and tuning (setting the pin )
I'm just tuning

With 9:00 position on a vertical the pin is too free and grip high. We want the pin to grip from its bottom end.
Why it's works in grand. I'm don't understood


Too much flagpoling can easily be exerted, particularly the way Max is using it, but some is often necessary in a more controlled way than Max's awareness permits

Thank you rxd! So much detail analyze Max's messages and instruct him on the path of truth. I'll be very detailed translate and analyze your latest message. I find it hard to understand all at once. Thank you again for your participation. Regards, Max
P.S Keep your time
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#2020308 - 01/24/13 12:16 PM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4182
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Originally Posted By: Maximillyan

If I had the opportunity to return it all back, I would do it immediately. However, I do not can to do that. Besides mail Kazakhstan works very badly and I could not guarantee the safety of sent back a things. I thought it was a gift, even if I use it badly. In Russian there is a saying: "do not look a gift horse in the mouth"


All of what you were sent was a gift.

Whether you use the tools or the instructional materials is up to you.

To learn the trade correctly is up to you.

The opportunity has presented itself.

With maturity, hard work, and dedication, rather than immmature quips in response, the opportunity presented will be a success.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

Top
#2020313 - 01/24/13 12:19 PM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Phil D]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1429
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Phil D
Max, they were gifts.

I see.Why then articulate a dollar amount?
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

Top
#2020314 - 01/24/13 12:21 PM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
Phil D Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 551
Loc: London, England
I don't know. That was in poor taste, I think. It wasn't something that needs saying in public.
_________________________
Phil Dickson
The Cycling Piano Tuner

Top
#2020318 - 01/24/13 12:28 PM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1429
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos

Originally Posted By: Maximillyan

If I had the opportunity to return it all back, I would do it immediately. However, I do not can to do that. Besides mail Kazakhstan works very badly and I could not guarantee the safety of sent back a things. I thought it was a gift, even if I use it badly. In Russian there is a saying: "do not look a gift horse in the mouth"


All of what you were sent was a gift.

Dan, If I understand you correctly to Max no major claim about the gifts?
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

Top
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