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#2020544 - 01/24/13 04:28 PM Yamaha P105 Connection to Home Receiver
calleserra Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/21/11
Posts: 11
Loc: Please Select
I want to connect my P105 to my home stereo system. There are two AUX OUT phone plugs for doing just that. The right channel is labeled R. The left channel is labeled L/L+R.

The manual says Use only the L/L+R jack (the left channel jack) for connection with a monaural device.

1. My confusion is-- correct me if I'm wrong-- in my assumption that L+R in the L/L+R jack label means stereo output. Or L+R is the designation for mono? Under my assumption that it is a stereo aux out, I can connect a stereo phone plug into the L/L+R jack and sound will output via Y cabling to Left and Right RCA male jacks and onto the home receiver.

2. When buying cables, how can I ascertain that I'm buying cables or adaptor plugs having no (zero) resistance? This is also noted in the P105 manual. Is there an industry terminology for zero resistance cable that the sales guy at Guitar Center can easily understand? Is this related to cables marked Balanced or Unbalanced?

Thanks for your comments .

Joe

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#2020578 - 01/24/13 05:08 PM Re: Yamaha P105 Connection to Home Receiver [Re: calleserra]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5276
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
I could be wrong but my understanding is this - if you only plug a 1\4" mono jack into the L\L+R output (and nothing in the R output) you'll receive a summed L+R in that output.

As soon as you plug another jack into the R output, the L\L+R output sends only the L channel information (as you would expect).

If the L\L+R output is a stereo output, you should be able to physically feel that when you slowly plug in a jack. You'll feel the extra contact as an extra 'bump' as you slowly insert that jack.

If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me. smile
_________________________
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mp3\wav files

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#2020673 - 01/24/13 07:32 PM Re: Yamaha P105 Connection to Home Receiver [Re: calleserra]
slowtraveler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 229
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
I believe Dave has correctly explained how Yamaha labels and utilizes the P105's outputs.

To make a stereo connection to your home receiver, you'll want two cables, each with a TS 1/4" plug at one end and an RCA plug at the other (assuming your receiver, like most home units, has RCA-type inputs). Here's a link to a suitable product (actually, it's a single, 6-foot-long, two-channel cable) at Sweetwater:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CPR202

Ignore the language in the P105 manual regarding "zero" resistance cables. It's an error or a mistranslation--there's no such thing.

The connection between piano and receiver will be unbalanced. There's no need to buy cables with TRS-type 1/4" (i.e., "stereo") connectors. They won't create a balanced connection. In this particular application, you don't need to worry about the distinction between balanced and unbalanced.

Kind regards,

Ben

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#2049677 - 03/17/13 01:26 PM Re: Yamaha P105 Connection to Home Receiver [Re: calleserra]
Rick Stockton Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/17/13
Posts: 3
Hi, Calleserra.

I'm going to recommend a different connector. Instead of using the "Aux Out" Jacks, you can connect the the (stereo) HEADPHONE jack into an L/R pair of RCA plugs on your home receiver - the same way you would connect a portable DC player or Digital Music recorder. Here's a suitable cable for that: Amazon: SF Cable, 12 feet 3.5mm Stereo Male to Two RCA Male Splitter Cable

In Kawai DPs, the voltage levels on the headphone jack are nearly 10x higher than the voltage levels on the "Aux" jacks. A higher output level creates a better signal-to-noise ratio, and does a better job of overcoming cable resistance.

I don't know if Yamaha has the same problem (i.e., output levels on the RCA "Aux" jacks too low) - but using the headphone connector will definitely work with Yamaha as well. And, with Yamaha talking about "zero resistance cables", it sounds like they MAY have the same "output levels too low" issue that Kawai does. BTW, there's no such thing as a "zero resistance cable"; that's a translation error. Yamaha means to suggest that you will need a "low-resistance cable".
-----

A "balanced cable" uses 3 wires for each channel - a "+ signal" wire, a "- signal" wire, and a ground wire. They elminiate noise from narby electical fields, as follows: Electromagnetic fields from nearby electric cords, on the stage or in your house walls, create the same amount of distortion on the "+ signal and "- signal" wires - but, since the charges are opposite, they pretty much cancel each other out. An RCA cable, or an "unbalanced" XLR cable, uses only 2 wires: the "- signal" is simply evaporated into the ground wire. "Balanced cables are generally used professional components (PA systems, Mixer boards, and so on). A "balanced output" Microphone is electrically different from a Radio Shack microphone, generating signals on two wires. (I own a couple of cheap "balanced" Microphones.)

Your home stereo almost certainly DOES NOT accept "balanced" cables, and your Yamaha probably doesn't provide a balanced output XLR plug connector either. (To confuse matters further: while professional XLR cables are "balanced", many of the cheap ones have two wires soldered together - making them function like an "unbalanced" RCA cable.)
-----
And so,
  • Balanced versus Unbalanced is irrelevant to YOUR equipment. Your connctors are all "RCA" or "3.5mm stereo headphone", and these are inherently "unbalanced".
  • In order to avoid the need for "zero resistance", you probably want to use the 3.5mm Headphone jack instead of the RCA "aux out" plugs, and use a "35.mm to RCA" stereo connector cable to reach your Stereo Receiver.

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#2049743 - 03/17/13 03:34 PM Re: Yamaha P105 Connection to Home Receiver [Re: Rick Stockton]
scorpio Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 522
Loc: Connecticut, USA
I do not wish to hijack this thread, so I will start a new one if appropriate.

Originally Posted By: Rick Stockton

the voltage levels on the headphone jack are nearly 10x higher than the voltage levels on the "Aux" jacks. A higher output level creates a better signal-to-noise ratio, and does a better job of overcoming cable resistance.

I have been unhappy with the quality of the recordings from my Yamaha P-155. I am using the "AUX" jacks connected to a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2. Either the signal is too low, or the noise is too high. I have tried changing the gain, line level vs. instrument level, etc.; and just can't seem to get it right. The recordings are just not crisp like others.

So maybe I should try running the signal out the headphone jacks? Would this cable work?
http://www.amazon.com/GLS-Audio-Y-Cable-...s+cable+y-cable

Again, I apologize for the interruption, it just seems like the topic speaks to my issue.
_________________________
Kawai MP11 :: JBL LSR305 :: Focusrite 2i4 :: Pianoteq Standard

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#2049750 - 03/17/13 03:46 PM Re: Yamaha P105 Connection to Home Receiver [Re: calleserra]
slowtraveler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 229
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
Welcome, Rick! I think what you're suggesting would definitely be worth a try if the P105's AUX OUTs don't seem to provide enough oomph to drive the receiver comfortably. I know it's common to find level and/or impedance mismatches between DP line outputs and consumer audio gear. But the OP should be aware of a couple of things:

1. Making a connection to the P105's PHONES jacks will disable the P105's internal speakers, which the OP may or may not find desirable; and,

2. The PHONES connectors on that DP are TRS 1/4" and not 3.5mm, so the particular cable you've suggested won't actually work. I believe the adapter below would serve, however, in combination with RCA cables of the appropriate length.

http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Cable-YPR102-Stereo-Inch/dp/B000068O4W

Cheers,

Ben

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#2049767 - 03/17/13 04:15 PM Re: Yamaha P105 Connection to Home Receiver [Re: scorpio]
slowtraveler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 229
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
scorpio,

Perhaps better to start a new thread, since you're asking about a connection to an audio interface and not a consumer receiver, but in the meantime:

The cable you mentioned won't work--it has a 3.5mm connector where you need a 1/4" connector (see my reply to Rick above);

I would expect the Scarlett to be happy with the sort of levels it gets from the P155, but you could certainly try recording from the headphone outs.

BTW, (as discussed in several other threads) you don't have a USB/MIDI cable running from the P155 to your computer while you're making recordings through the Scarlett, correct?

Regards,

Ben

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#2049792 - 03/17/13 04:56 PM Re: Yamaha P105 Connection to Home Receiver [Re: scorpio]
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 623
Originally Posted By: scorpio
I do not wish to hijack this thread, so I will start a new one if appropriate.

Originally Posted By: Rick Stockton

the voltage levels on the headphone jack are nearly 10x higher than the voltage levels on the "Aux" jacks. A higher output level creates a better signal-to-noise ratio, and does a better job of overcoming cable resistance.

I have been unhappy with the quality of the recordings from my Yamaha P-155. I am using the "AUX" jacks connected to a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2. Either the signal is too low, or the noise is too high. I have tried changing the gain, line level vs. instrument level, etc.; and just can't seem to get it right. The recordings are just not crisp like others.

So maybe I should try running the signal out the headphone jacks? Would this cable work?
http://www.amazon.com/GLS-Audio-Y-Cable-...s+cable+y-cable

Again, I apologize for the interruption, it just seems like the topic speaks to my issue.


Can I ask you now that you mentioned- as I am considering either the Scarlet 2i2i or Steinberg UR22 what you think overall of the Scarlet? Also, do you use the Abelton lite version it came with? Deciding between that or the UR22 which comes with Cubase AI6
_________________________
Roland Juno Gi
Casio PX-130
Korg Krome 61
Korg SP280

Rokit KRK 6 monitors
MXL V67G microphone

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#2049862 - 03/17/13 07:00 PM Re: Yamaha P105 Connection to Home Receiver [Re: Possum SP280Krome]
scorpio Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 522
Loc: Connecticut, USA
I will start a new thread.
_________________________
Kawai MP11 :: JBL LSR305 :: Focusrite 2i4 :: Pianoteq Standard

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#2049870 - 03/17/13 07:11 PM Re: Yamaha P105 Connection to Home Receiver [Re: calleserra]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3617
Loc: Northern England.
Hello Joe - I can only use the headphone socket, I have no aux or line out. But I have no trouble connecting to a computer line in (mini stereo jack) with this.

Use a splitter so you can utilize headphones too, from the piano. The signal should be clear and you can amplify it with the audio programme you`ll be using if necessary. "Audacity" is a free, excellent choice.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes — but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2050057 - 03/18/13 04:42 AM Re: Yamaha P105 Connection to Home Receiver [Re: Rick Stockton]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2630
Originally Posted By: Rick Stockton
In Kawai DPs, the voltage levels on the headphone jack are nearly 10x higher than the voltage levels on the "Aux" jacks. A higher output level creates a better signal-to-noise ratio, and does a better job of overcoming cable resistance.


@Rick Stockton,

Thanks for pointing out the technical aspect of using the headphone jack for recording, as not only does it give higher quality results, you only need one stereo cable from the piano to the computer, not the usual two.

I use a dual 1/4-inch adapter at the headphone jack so that you can plug in both the stereo cable and a pair of headphones to monitor the recording. It appears to do the job very well and it's an easy setup.

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#2050100 - 03/18/13 07:48 AM Re: Yamaha P105 Connection to Home Receiver [Re: Rick Stockton]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3818
Loc: North Carolina
Lots of misinformation here:
Originally Posted By: Rick Stockton
I'm going to recommend a different connector. Instead of using the "Aux Out" Jacks, you can connect the the (stereo) HEADPHONE jack into an L/R pair of RCA plugs on your home receiver - the same way you would connect a portable DC player or Digital Music recorder. Here's a suitable cable for that: Amazon: SF Cable, 12 feet 3.5mm Stereo Male to Two RCA Male Splitter Cable

In Kawai DPs, the voltage levels on the headphone jack are nearly 10x higher than the voltage levels on the "Aux" jacks. A higher output level creates a better signal-to-noise ratio, and does a better job of overcoming cable resistance.

I don't know if Yamaha has the same problem (i.e., output levels on the RCA "Aux" jacks too low) - but using the headphone connector will definitely work with Yamaha as well. And, with Yamaha talking about "zero resistance cables", it sounds like they MAY have the same "output levels too low" issue that Kawai does. BTW, there's no such thing as a "zero resistance cable"; that's a translation error. Yamaha means to suggest that you will need a "low-resistance cable".
The cable resistance is simply not relevant. It's generally around 0.1 ohms. In contrast, the input impedance of the targeted device (amplifier, mixer, etc.) is generally tens of THOUSANDS of ohms. So the miniscule cable resistance contributes nothing to the result.

As for voltage levels ...

The aux output (line output) level generally peaks at several volts because it's meant to drive a HIGH-IMPEDANCE device, such as an amplifier or mixer, etc.

Meanwhile, the headphone output is meant to drive a LOW-IMPEDANCE device: a pair of headphones. Those generally have an impedance of 30 ohms to 600 ohms, depending on the model. So the output voltage of the headphone jack low.

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