Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 3 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#2012959 - 01/11/13 05:03 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: DBill]
xorbe Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 572
Loc: Mt View, CA
Originally Posted By: DBill
Note: I live at 7,400 ft. above sea level where the air density is 25% thinner than at sea level. The decay rate for an acoustic piano would be noticeably slower here as the energy transfer rate from vibrating string to air sound waves would be less.

That is an interesting observation ... it would be quieter too though, yeah?! I need to practice at that elevation, though wrt to my running hobby, heh. #CLEVEL (har har!)

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
The Right Mic Makes all the Difference. Piano Mics at Sweetwater

Click Here


#2013013 - 01/11/13 06:37 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: xorbe]
DBill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 53
Loc: Durango, CO
Originally Posted By: xorbe
Originally Posted By: DBill
Note: I live at 7,400 ft. above sea level where the air density is 25% thinner than at sea level. The decay rate for an acoustic piano would be noticeably slower here as the energy transfer rate from vibrating string to air sound waves would be less.

That is an interesting observation ... it would be quieter too though, yeah?! I need to practice at that elevation, though wrt to my running hobby, heh. #CLEVEL (har har!)


To xorbe

It would be interesting to get actual sound energy measurements from identical pianos with identical note playing strength at my altitude (7,400 ft. above sea level) vs. sea level. The calculations below derive a difference of about 1 1/4 decibels between sound generated at a given power level at 7,4000 feet above sea level vs. sea level.

Sound intensity is usually measured in decibels which is a logarithmic scale. For example, sound at 90 decibels has 10 times the power as sound at 80 decibels. Sound at 100 decibels has 10 times the power as sound at 90 decibels and 100 times the power of sound at 80 decibels. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel

For calculations, let’s assume that you generate 90 decibels of sound with a piano chord at sea level. If you use the Wikipedia table, this is equivalent to a “power ratio” of 1,000,000,000. To convert from a “power ratio” to decibels take the log (base 10) of the “power ratio” and then multiply by 10.

If you reduce the “power ratio” by 25% due to thinner air at higher elevations, then the “power ratio” becomes 750,000,000. This reduction in the strength of sound waves should take place for sound generated by piano strings, amplifiers, or any other source.

To convert this new “power ratio” to decibels, we again take the log (base 10) and then multiply by 10. This yields a decibel level of 88.75.

Thus perceived sound is weaker at this altitude, although it would be difficult to tell the difference with ordinary hearing – especially if you are trying to remember sounds from whenever you used to be at sea level.


To pv88 and andy

I've actually gone through all the posts on this thread which is why I'm paying attention to the decay rate. I've never played the Shubert, but I used to play Rachmaninoff's C Sharp Minor Prelude. It is one of the pieces that I will be going back to - and it runs into a sustain/decay test real quick. Basically, there is a price trade-off involved between the 650 and the CN34.

Top
#2013023 - 01/11/13 06:56 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140]
andy0140 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 26
DBill - I'm also familiar with the Rach Prelude in C# minor. Although I never tested this with the casio, I'd be expecting poor results again when the C# minor chord progression starts after the octave introduction. Another example from personal experience could be the Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No 2 Mov 1 Introduction (believe this is known as the "Bell Toll"). The chords will decay far to fast on the Casio.

Bottom line here is the unacceptable "initial" decay (applies from what I've seen & heard to the AP-650 and PX-350). I've been using the AP-650 and the Schubert Impromptu to demonstrate this. There are a lot more pieces that could be demonstrated where this decay is unacceptable, however there are pieces where this decay problem would be considered not applicable, a good example (from personal experience / repertoire) to this would be the Maple Leaf Rag.

Agreed on the price trade off between the 650 and the CN34, but there is little in trade off between the AP-650 and the Roland RP301R.


Edited by andy0140 (01/11/13 07:08 PM)

Top
#2013024 - 01/11/13 06:58 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: DBill]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: DBill
To pv88 and andy

I've actually gone through all the posts on this thread which is why I'm paying attention to the decay rate. I've never played the Shubert, but I used to play Rachmaninoff's C Sharp Minor Prelude. It is one of the pieces that I will be going back to - and it runs into a sustain/decay test real quick. Basically, there is a price trade-off involved between the 650 and the CN34.


I am pretty sure that most Kawai's (including the CN34) will have a better overall sustain/decay rate as compared with the Casio's. Having played both brands, the choice is clear.

Top
#2013110 - 01/11/13 09:55 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140]
DBill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 53
Loc: Durango, CO
It’s going to come down to “best bang for the buck”. If Kawai brings their CN34 price down to within $300 of the Casio 650, then I’ll go for the Kawai CN34. There are still several weeks to go before it’s decision time.

Here are some calculations for “fair” U. S. prices based on current UK prices. (A “fair” price is what you might expect under free-market, multiple-store competition.)

Advertised UK price for a Kawai CN34 = 1199 UK Pounds
Advertised UK price for a Casio Celviano 650 = 1099 UK Pounds

Price as quoted at http://www.bonnersmusic.co.uk/kawai-cn34...-digital-pianos = 1,199 British Pounds
Includes piano stool, headphones & free delivery.

All prices in UK stores include a 20% value added tax.
https://www.gov.uk/vat/overview (Value added tax = 20%)
https://www.gov.uk/vat/where-you-see-vat “it’s already included in the price”
To find the price before the VAT is applied, divide the final price by 1.20
Price of Kawai CN34 before VAT = 1199 / 1.20 = 999.17 British Pounds

To calculate the U.S. dollar rate for 999.17 British Pounds, enter the British Pound amount in the top box and click on “Pounds to US $.
http://www.dollars2pounds.com/

The conversion rate as of 1/11/2013 was 1.6130 which gives a U.S. $ amount of $1611.66.
This is the “fair” U. S. $ amount for a Kawai CN34 including headphones and free delivery. (Note, the conversion rate changes frequently.)

The equivalent calculation for the Casio Celviano 650 is based on an advertised price of 1,099 British pounds. http://www.normans.co.uk/p-4831-casio-ap-650-celviano-88-note-digital-piano.aspx Similar calculations yield a U. S. dollar price of $1,477.23 for the Casio 650.

Top
#2013133 - 01/11/13 11:08 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: DBill]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1841
Loc: Pennsylvania
Dbill: In your calculations, don't forget to include the cost of ending up with a digital piano that will not perform to expectations ... Priceless !
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D

Top
#2013175 - 01/12/13 01:28 AM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140]
bluebilly Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 433
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: andy0140
Mike,

Did some heavy experimenting with the brilliance and velocity levels on the 650. None of these variables affect the tonal decay on the middle range.

Here is the piece I'm referring to (as an example, being played on a Kawai CN21)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBOev7vd2tQ

The melody line cannot be recreated like this on the 650 no matter what techniques are adapted or what parameters are set. The important and fundamental melodic sequence being played in the middle range cuts off far too early via the tonal decay even with sustain being utilised. It's key for me (excuse the pun) as an intermediate pianist that this is retained, not released. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.

I had no issues with this on the yamaha ydp-141, which is half the price of the 650 in RRP terms.

Andy.

In the comments below that video it says the piano is being played through "Pianoteq", perhaps that helps?

Top
#2013648 - 01/12/13 08:36 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: bluebilly]
DBill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 53
Loc: Durango, CO
Some information on the new Casio Celvianos (to be introduced in the U.S. at the January NAMM)

AP-250: Available in black or brown: MSRP $1399.99
AP-450: Available in black or brown: MSRP $1699.99
AP-650: Available in black: MSRP $1999.99

Top
#2013720 - 01/12/13 11:35 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140]
DBill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 53
Loc: Durango, CO
Based on the digital database at Piano Buyer
( http://www.pianobuyer.com/show_diginew.php ),
retail prices for Casio’s new Celviano pianos should be $400 to $450 under the MSRP.

The best bet for where you will be able to buy the new Celvianos (including online) is the “Guitar Center” chain. http://www.guitarcenter.com/Casio.gc

If you want to find the nearest Casio store, Casio has a "Store Locator" at http://www.casiomusicgear.com/wheretobuy . Most of these dealers are “Guitar Center” # _ _ _ . (Fill in a number)

Top
#2013780 - 01/13/13 04:38 AM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: DBill]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
@DBill,

The Kawai CN34 may cost a little more than the Casio AP-650, although the behavior of the decay/sustain/sounds are going to be so much better with the Kawai, as I had the Casio AP-620 and the decay was simply too short.

Andy0140 has told us that the AP-650 has the same issue with the short decay (not at all acoustic-like) and the overall harmonic resonance is thin and not full enough when blending multiple notes in chords and arpeggios.

Just trying to give you sufficient warning so that you are not disappointed.

Top
#2013899 - 01/13/13 12:07 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140]
DBill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 53
Loc: Durango, CO
I’m still trying to get as much info as I can on the Celviano 650 vs. the Kawai CN34. I can hear a difference between the two recordings of the Shubert, but to me the Casio is not objectionable. Any plus/minus evaluation will of course vary from one person to another.

There are differences between various digitals and acoustics, but I think a lot of peoples’ preferences are based on what they get used to. Once you are used to a particular instrument, then everything else is going to sound a little strange.

I learned to play on a 1920s era Steck baby grand. Stecks were good pianos at that time. (Recent Stecks are a pile of C . . . Oops; this is a public forum so make that “organic fertilizer”.) However, it’s been 35 years since I’ve had a chance to play anything. A 35-year gap will erase any “ear preference” that you might have had. My feeling is that I would quickly adapt to any differences that might exist between various pianos. Thus my buying decision will be based on “best bang for the buck” as opposed to trying to find the “perfect piano”.

At one time I was also considering the Kawai CE220, but it’s dropped out of contention. One of the things I want to try is “Jamaican Rumba” using a marimba, but the CE220 doesn’t have a marimba.

I’m still getting price quotes as much as possible from various Kawai dealers for the CN34, but as of now I’m leaning strongly toward the 650.

One of the other things that I ran into is that Mike Martin is a very busy guy. He’s actually General Manager of Marketing, Electronic Musical Instruments at Casio, and posts on a lot of other forums besides this one. He has also worked for Yamaha and Kurzwell in the past. You can throw in setting up things for NAMM as a current project.

Finally, I do have a request for Mike. The rumors that I’ve run into are saying that Internet retailers such as Kraft Music, Musicians Friend, etc. are going to be locked out of the new Celvianos. I don’t know how much influence you might have with the high mucky mucks at Casio, but I’ve been in contact with some of the people at Kraft. They seem like good guys. If only for “free market” competition purposes, it would be nice to keep them inside the loop.

Top
#2015198 - 01/15/13 11:40 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: DBill]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: DBill
Some information on the new Casio Celvianos (to be introduced in the U.S. at the January NAMM)

AP-250: Available in black or brown: MSRP $1399.99
AP-450: Available in black or brown: MSRP $1699.99
AP-650: Available in black: MSRP $1999.99


Looks like a pretty big price jump for the new AP-650, since you can still get the AP-620 for $1,399.99. That's a $600 increase between the AP-620 and AP-650.

Or, that means you can only buy a new AP-250 for the price of an AP-620, which has far less features. AP-250 ($1,399.99) = AP-620 ($1,399.99) - same price?

That is like saying the less featured model is equal to and costs the same as the flagship?

For a digital in the 2K range and above, look elsewhere.

Top
#2015214 - 01/16/13 12:43 AM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140]
Mike_Martin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 386
You guys are comparing Suggested Retail Price to existing MAP prices, not entirely a good comparison.
_________________________
-Mike Martin
Casio America

Casio Music Forums
Privia Pro PX-5S Audio Demos

Top
#2020338 - 01/24/13 01:04 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140]
DBill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 53
Loc: Durango, CO
Mike has been busy! getting the http://www.casiomusicgear.com/ website up to date for the new Celvianos. For example, see: http://www.casiomusicgear.com/products/menu_celviano

Also the “Where to buy” “Store Locator” ( http://www.casiomusicgear.com/wheretobuy ) has been updated in the last few days as a new dealer has been added near where I live.

There have been some posts in pianoworld’s forums that have downplayed Casio vs. other digital piano manufacturers, but as far as I am concerned Casio (including the new Privias ) offers the “best bang for the buck”. In the past, the primary concern was the sustain time (decay rate) for Celvianos and Privas, but PianoManChuck’s video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGG1GwWGhBA is pretty convincing that the new x50 models have greatly improved that problem.

For anyone interested in the new Priva Pro PX-5S, there’s a new page giving the specs for it. http://www.casiomusicgear.com/products/menu_privia/PX-5S

I will be buying a Celviano AP 650 just as soon as a few competitive prices show up. (Probably around $1,500 +/- for the AP 650.)

Top
#2020947 - 01/25/13 06:44 AM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140]
dkong99 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 43
I also believe that for "bang for the buck" nothing beats Casio. Most of the detractors are comparing a $1500 with one several times the cost which frankly isn't a fair or valid comparison. For example,to most people an additional $800 or so is significant, granted, if money weren't an object there would be a Mason & Hamlin Model AA in my living room, but since it is, the AP-650 would certainly work (and being a digital, would actually FIT in my living room). Once the AP 650 is released I will be looking at one to have along with my PX-330.

Top
#2021240 - 01/25/13 04:48 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: dkong99]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Please do keep in mind that even the latest Casio currently available (AP-650) still has issues with its sounds, particularly in the short decay and lack of overall harmonic resonance (which can be heard with heavier chords) as this has already been pointed out by the OP (andy0140) in this thread.

There are other digitals at a similar price point that will give you far better performance in these areas, otherwise you will have to deal with a less than acoustic like sound with the rapid decay.

I think that almost anyone (even with a less than discerning ear) can clearly hear the deficiency of the Casio's resonance, as that is why I had to trade in my AP-620 for another digital.

I consider the Kawai EP3 to be a good comparison to the AP-620, as the piano sounds have far better decay and overall resonance. The EP3 doesn't have as many extra features as the AP-620 does, however, I was only concerned with the piano sounds and at $300 less than the Casio it was a no-brainer.

Top
#2021265 - 01/25/13 05:14 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: pv88]
dkong99 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 43
Not to be rude, but aren't you the same one confusing MSRP with actual price paid?

A digital is NOT an acoustic no matter how much you want it to be, they're two different instruments.

Everyone has different requirements and tastes, what may be a deal breaker for one might be of no consequence to another
and it IS rude to assume everyone has the same agenda as yourself.

Top
#2021310 - 01/25/13 06:23 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: dkong99]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Here is the price comparison between the Casio and Kawai as follows:

1) Casio AP-620: $1,399 (US) - online (paid) price - not MSRP

2) Kawai EP3: $1,099 (US) - online (paid) price - not MSRP

As you can see there is a differential of $300 between the two (as the EP3 costs less) as I bought them here:

1) Casio AP-620:

http://www.samash.com/p/Casio_Celviano%2...2023#TabSection

2) Kawai EP3:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EP3Kawai

Also, be sure to read the "reviews" on each digital above as this gives a clear indication of what others think of them. Also, I gave my review of the Kawai EP3, however, I did not give the review for the Casio AP-620.

And, there is a good cross section of reviews at guitarcenter.com, as there are seven (7) worth reading, here:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Casio-AP-620...559-i1516175.gc

I have only stated what I believe to be a real flaw in Casio's digitals which is the lack of proper decay and resonance. Since there are other options I tend to advise folks in that direction.

Top
#2021314 - 01/25/13 06:32 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: pv88]
dkong99 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 43
Indeed, you have stated your views ad nausum.

Just a thought:

Neither Mike Martin nor Kawai James ever posts anything disparaging about the other's products.

My final conclusion:

The important thing is what the purchaser thinks, not what others do.

Top
#2021335 - 01/25/13 07:22 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: pv88]
ONfrank Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 98
Originally Posted By: pv88
Here is the price comparison between the Casio and Kawai as follows:

1) Casio AP-620: $1,399 (US) - online (paid) price - not MSRP

2) Kawai EP3: $1,099 (US) - online (paid) price - not MSRP

As you can see there is a differential of $300 between the two (as the EP3 costs less) as I bought them here:

1) Casio AP-620:

http://www.samash.com/p/Casio_Celviano%2...2023#TabSection

2) Kawai EP3:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EP3Kawai

Also, be sure to read the "reviews" on each digital above as this gives a clear indication of what others think of them. Also, I gave my review of the Kawai EP3, however, I did not give the review for the Casio AP-620.

And, there is a good cross section of reviews at guitarcenter.com, as there are seven (7) worth reading, here:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Casio-AP-620...559-i1516175.gc

I have only stated what I believe to be a real flaw in Casio's digitals which is the lack of proper decay and resonance. Since there are other options I tend to advise folks in that direction.


Shouldn't you be comparing the EP3 to something like the $500 PX-130 or PX-150? Everyone knows the cabinets are overpriced.

Top
#2021430 - 01/26/13 12:34 AM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140]
DBill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 53
Loc: Durango, CO
Note to dkong99

If you want more info on the Celviano 650, you can download the User’s Manual here.
http://support.casio.com/manualfile.php?rgn=1&cid=008001015

The 650 has 14 different “pianos” which PianoManChuck demos here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgtpUCPDPUs
Note that the sound engine in the Privia 350 is the same as what the 650 has. Each of these piano tones can be further refined.

The 650 has 250 different tones (electric pianos, organs, etc.) which should cover just about every musical instrument that you might want to experiment with. However, if you want to try musical tesla coils http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singing_Tesla_coil , you’re out of luck.
(For an electrifying performance of “In the Hall of the Mountain King” see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LAhKkPUo_A
Isn’t it “amazing” that they don’t have groupies sneaking up on the stage.)

The rapid decay time was an issue in earlier versions of Privas and Celvianos, but as far as I’m concerned the decay time is OK in the new Privas and Celvianos. (x50 series) For additional information, run a Google search using:
Privia decay

Finally, I’m looking for a digital piano that fits in as a piece of furniture as well as being “the best bang for the buck”.

I will be buying a Casio Celviano 650 as soon as they are available. If for some reason I don’t like it, there’s no law that says I can’t buy something else a year or two from now.

Top
#2021443 - 01/26/13 01:03 AM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: DBill]
dkong99 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 43
My thoughts exactly. Unless one actually tries the AP-650 in person, it is silly to pass judgment.

And you're right,

[quote][/quote]I will be buying a Casio Celviano 650 as soon as they are available. If for some reason I don’t like it, there’s no law that says I can’t buy something else a year or two from now.

Top
#2021456 - 01/26/13 01:35 AM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: ONfrank]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: ONfrank
Shouldn't you be comparing the EP3 to something like the $500 PX-130 or PX-150? Everyone knows the cabinets are overpriced.


Actually, since the EP3 costs $1,100 and the AP-620 is only $1,400 they are pretty close in price. Also, there is no question of the EP3 having nice long sustain in the samples as the overall harmonic resonance is very good. What I heard from the AP-620's speakers is not nearly at the same level of realism as the EP3's which sound a lot like an acoustic grand. The decay in the AP-620 was in fact so short that I simply could not render many classical pieces correctly, with the 1st movement of the "Moonlight" sonata being yet another example.

Yes, you pay more for the cabinets in the Celviano models, however, I can assure you that the new AP-650's samples are still not long enough, as andy1040 and I have compared notes on our digitals. You do get a louder speaker system in the AP-650 (compared to the Privias) although it remains the same as the AP-620's speakers. The louder speakers (at 60 watts) do not help the piano to project its short samples which are not sufficient. Aside from the extremely short decay (and, thin harmonic resonance) the AP-650 does have a ton of sounds and features, none of which improves the piano samples.

Top
#2021458 - 01/26/13 01:39 AM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9096
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
pv88, just to clarify, have you played the AP-650, or any of the new Casio models?

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2021462 - 01/26/13 01:52 AM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: Kawai James]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
I have previously owned the AP-620, PX-130, and, CDP-100. Please note that Casio states they have expanded the capacity of the AP-650's memory 3x (times). This new memory allocation has not appeared to help much with the decay or sustain time, as the OP (andy0140) has mentioned.

There is no question that the AP-650's decay and sustain may be a little (or, slightly) longer than the AP-620's, but the OP had to return his AP-650 due to the very short decay. I traded in my AP-620 for the same reasons.

The similarities should be clear (as for both digitals) that the overall sustain and decay is not quite sufficient in either model. I would not buy an AP-650, knowing this fact.

Top
#2021506 - 01/26/13 05:51 AM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140]
jrcallan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 364
Loc: Pennsylvania
No, pv, you've actually stated someone else's observations.

Careful with that sort of thing. You might find yourself with no cred at all.

Top
#2021709 - 01/26/13 02:46 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140]
DBill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 53
Loc: Durango, CO
Note to Kawai James

The other piano that I was seriously considering was a Kawai CN34. The deal breaker here was the lack of competitive bidding by Kawai dealers. (And this is forced from higher up in the company.) I was able to get quotes a little better than the “Buy Now” prices at http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/digital/CNxx4/cn34.html , but not anywhere near what a straight currency conversion plus VAT adjustment would give from a UK dealer.

The CN34 is a good machine, and I would rate it slightly better than a Celviano 650. If the price were only “slightly higher” than that for a Casio 650 (estimated at $1,500 +/-), I would have gone the CN34 route.

Top
#2021739 - 01/26/13 04:29 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: DBill]
andy0140 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 26
DBill - confused how you can rate the AP-650 when you haven't played it yet, or are you going by published spec which on paper looks fantastic...

Re-iterating to anyone interested in the AP-650....Make sure you play it first before handing over your hard earned cash !

Andy





Edited by andy0140 (01/26/13 04:31 PM)

Top
#2021770 - 01/26/13 05:15 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140]
DBill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 53
Loc: Durango, CO
To Andy

I have to use specs, reviews, and video clips for any evaluations that I make as the nearest major dealers for Casio and Kawai are 200 miles away - in different directions. There is a "Best Buy" that has recently shown up as a Casio dealer only 40 miles away, but they don't even advertise a Celviano 620 never mind a 650. Thus there isn't any practical way that I could compare playing them - especially as a side by side comparison.

From what I can see, you are the only one on this thread that has actually played a 650 (vs. a 620), so I do give your opinion more weight. However the clincher (at least for me) for the decay evaluation is PianoManChuck's comparison of a Privia 330 vs. a Privia 350. The Celviano 650 has the same sound engine as the Privia 350 which is different from the 330 (and the Celviano 620).

The Kawai CN34 seems to be a slightly better machine so if I could get it at nearly the same price as a 650, I would go for the CN34.

One other factor to consider is that the piano will go in a large room (25-foot ceiling - open to other rooms on both floors). The 650 has an edge here as it has more powerful speakers. You can add external speakers to either piano, but this would add to the price evaluation.

Top
#2021794 - 01/26/13 05:58 PM Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 380
Loc: Poland
->DBill and others smile

If you don't need the fireworks in piano, why not to choose the Roland RP-301?
I think it beats Casio in each aspect - if we talk about piano playing.
And cost less than both of them.

or Kawai KDP-80 if going down with prices smile


Edited by kapelli (01/26/13 06:09 PM)

Top
Page 3 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
127 registered (anotherscott, Alan F, 36 invisible), 1425 Guests and 10 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76042 Members
42 Forums
157253 Topics
2309695 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Steinway or Porsche?
by Jennymomofboys
51 minutes 2 seconds ago
Shostakovich Prelude 4 (E minor)
by johnlewisgrant
Today at 09:24 PM
Help!
by MandyD
Today at 09:09 PM
kitchen studio for summer just gone
by toddy
Today at 08:41 PM
Aebersold Play-Alongs
by EP
Today at 06:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission