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#2021426 - 01/26/13 12:09 AM Rapid Voicer
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 829
Loc: Hong Kong
Stumble upon pianotools.com, there is a Rapid Voicer tool kit with training manual. The demonstration videos are convincing.
The videos compared before and after three minutes voicing.

Anyone have experience, or idea about this tool kit?

thanks.
_________________________
Working on:\

J.S.Bach Prelude in C Min: No. 2 from Six Preludes fur Anfanger auf dem
Am Abend No. 2 from Stimmungsbilder, Op. 88
60s Swing No. 1 from Swinging Rhythms
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com

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#2021485 - 01/26/13 04:04 AM Re: Rapid Voicer [Re: Weiyan]
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 9230
Loc: France
Hello Weiyan
a few tips on how to break the tone for a few days/weeks, or more but only the percussive part if tone is changed.

The result is a softened tone not voicing, no real gain in lenght/sustain nor thickness, dont you notice the demonstration is done with sustain pedal engaged ?


The elasticity of the shoulders is not back

The only use of sustain pedal for voicing is to catch more easily on strong notes when our ears are tired and hear too much the attack.

I just question the training . That is how people make business as soon they have a partial knowledge.

For sure when you work for schools you may try to find solutions for your voicings not to harden in a few days , this resort with more agressive crown needling than usual, often particularely if you have dense and hard/dry hammers, with lsrge strings marks.

I would call "softening" what is done there. It have nothing to do with a prevoicing followed by an evening of tone done note by note and in a few passes.

Similar to "what is a concert tuning" the question could be "what is voicing ?"


Edited by Olek (01/26/13 04:18 AM)
_________________________
Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

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#2021893 - 01/26/13 09:44 PM Re: Rapid Voicer [Re: Weiyan]
daniokeeper Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 1223
Loc: PA
Hi Weiyan,

The web-site is:
pianotunertools.com


Edited by daniokeeper (01/26/13 09:46 PM)
_________________________
Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.tinyurl.com/tunerjoe
(semi-retired)

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#2021936 - 01/27/13 12:46 AM Re: Rapid Voicer [Re: Weiyan]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2986
Loc: Olympia, WA
Expensive snake oil. This was discussed last December:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1995995/
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#2021966 - 01/27/13 02:38 AM Re: Rapid Voicer [Re: rysowers]
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 9230
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: rysowers
Expensive snake oil. This was discussed last December:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1995995/


I like the snake oil term !
_________________________
Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

Top
#2022083 - 01/27/13 09:57 AM Re: Rapid Voicer [Re: Weiyan]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 829
Loc: Hong Kong
Thank you.

No short cut in this planet.
_________________________
Working on:\

J.S.Bach Prelude in C Min: No. 2 from Six Preludes fur Anfanger auf dem
Am Abend No. 2 from Stimmungsbilder, Op. 88
60s Swing No. 1 from Swinging Rhythms
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com

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#2022794 - 01/28/13 11:48 AM Re: Rapid Voicer [Re: Weiyan]
alfredo capurso Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 1238
Loc: Sicily - Italy
Originally Posted By: Weiyan
Stumble upon pianotools.com, there is a Rapid Voicer tool kit with training manual. The demonstration videos are convincing.
The videos compared before and after three minutes voicing.

Anyone have experience, or idea about this tool kit?

thanks.


Hi Weiyan,

I have had a look at those tools and the videos... I prefer to refrain from making a comment.

On the other hand, perhaps there is a short cut nowadays...

Find an old hammer set and with a proper tool (I use a three-needles voicer) start getting familiar with "needling" the felt. In order to get an idea, try to find some videos and for more details and orientation... remember PW.

Regards, a.c.
_________________________
alfredo

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#2174452 - 10/30/13 05:16 PM Re: Rapid Voicer [Re: Olek]
studio43 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 8
Loc: Ohio
Weiyan,

This method was not developed by a beginner. It has been used on thousands of pianos over 2o years and tested by very competent working technicians.

I was the luck one to meet my mentor and see just how amazing it was. I got his permission to publish and share the techniques with the world wide piano technician community.

There is no proof able to be found about your comments on the elasticity of the shoulders and we do not focus on shoulders because the strike point, which has been avoided for decades, is where the real work is done.

The Rapid Voicer method is for service voicing and not factory voicing. It is "RAPID" and it takes 5-10 minutes to complete. It does not mimic factory voicing or new hammer preparation and this work is done previously in the factory.

When a technician works every day in homes with pianos that need their tone restored and the budget is limited... and I mean would not allow 5-10 hours of the voicing work that has been taught previously, the Rapid Voicer saves the day and it can make technicians a lot of money and helps them build a strong reputation. Why? Because in a very short time, the piano owner is in love again with their instrument.

I am a young technician and I have seen this on every level of instrument from the concert level piano to the basic home upright. It just works. Why would you believe me anyway??? Just take a moment to read what the technicians say who have tried it.....They are brave and they are also ahead of the game now with this technique.
http://www.pianotunertools.com/pages/testimonials
_________________________
Eric Michael Roberts
www.springboropianoservices.com

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#2174479 - 10/30/13 06:18 PM Re: Rapid Voicer [Re: studio43]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1510
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: studio43
Weiyan,

This method was not developed by a beginner. It has been used on thousands of pianos over 2o years and tested by very competent working technicians.

I was the luck one to meet my mentor and see just how amazing it was. I got his permission to publish and share the techniques with the world wide piano technician community.

There is no proof able to be found about your comments on the elasticity of the shoulders and we do not focus on shoulders because the strike point, which has been avoided for decades, is where the real work is done.

The Rapid Voicer method is for service voicing and not factory voicing. It is "RAPID" and it takes 5-10 minutes to complete. It does not mimic factory voicing or new hammer preparation and this work is done previously in the factory.

When a technician works every day in homes with pianos that need their tone restored and the budget is limited... and I mean would not allow 5-10 hours of the voicing work that has been taught previously, the Rapid Voicer saves the day and it can make technicians a lot of money and helps them build a strong reputation. Why? Because in a very short time, the piano owner is in love again with their instrument.

I am a young technician and I have seen this on every level of instrument from the concert level piano to the basic home upright. It just works. Why would you believe me anyway??? Just take a moment to read what the technicians say who have tried it.....They are brave and they are also ahead of the game now with this technique.
http://www.pianotunertools.com/pages/testimonials


No doubt it has been effective. But there are other approaches that are at least equally effective and perhaps more versatile. I don't take more than 5-10 minutes to make dramatic voicing improvements on the pianos I service and I don't use this particular tool.

It would add to credibility to be able to discuss your experience with these other procedures -- or at least be aware of the literature. My PTG article appeared over 10 years ago and the "angel voicing " discussion has been ongoing for a couple of years, now.
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
Editor, Piano Technicians Journal
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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