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#2022525 - 01/28/13 12:01 AM Differences in Classical Styles. More Questions!
Mr. Cid Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 19
Loc: Minneapolis, MN of the USA
So I have some questions relating to the classical styles such as Sonatas, Waltz, Impromptus, Suites, Etudes, Nocturnes, and Minuets.
I can definitely tell what a Waltz sounds like when I hear it. But when it comes to Sonatas, Impromptus, and Nocturnes I find it hard to tell what their typical mood and musical phrases sound and feel like.
Etudes and Minuets what makes them what they are in all aspects. Mood, Phrasing, Techniques, Level, and ect.
(I am a passionate beginner currently on the piano wanting to know more of these things.)
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Just your average beginner that is passionate at what he loves! MUSIC AND INSTRUMENTS!

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#2022615 - 01/28/13 03:58 AM Re: Differences in Classical Styles. More Questions! [Re: Mr. Cid]
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Cameron Park, California
Each style mentioned is unique in its own right and a full description of each could likely fill a page if a history as well as examples are provided. My advice is to take ones you're curious about at any given moment and simply do a google search on them, possibly including the phrase, "what is a [sonata]," and one of the first results (wikipedia, for example) will likely provide a more comprehensive answer than any of us could.

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#2022653 - 01/28/13 06:41 AM Re: Differences in Classical Styles. More Questions! [Re: Mr. Cid]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2437
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
More bold Italics, Mr Cid?

Until Guido D'Arezzo developed a means of writing down music there is no history before plainchant that we can recreate. We know music was fairly important at the time of the Egyptian Pharaohs and was developed strongly by the classical Greeks but we have no way of knowing what their music sounded like. When the Roman Empire collapsed, the music died with it.

The music that emerged from the Dark Ages was plainchant and in the Renaissance music moved away from octaves and fifths and introduced thirds and cadences, song forms were developed. The troubadours of Spain started spreading these songs in contrast to the Church's influence and strongly ruled form of music. At the end of the sixteenth century we began to develop equal temperament, a more versatile way of dividing the octave than pure tone, and dissonance. This was the birth of the Baroque period and keyboard music.

In the Baroque period, the suite became the main vehicle for music. A suite is a collection of pieces in varying speeds along the slow-fast-slow-fast plan initiated by Corelli. The individual pieces were named after popular dances of the day which was as good a way as any of indicating the general metre and tempo. Bach's French suites followed an Allemande-Courante-Sarabande-Minuet & Double-Gigue sort of format.

The suite was transformed by CPE Bach and emerged as the sonata, the main vehicle in the classical times of Haydn and Mozart. It typically consisted of an intellectually engaging thematic movement followed by a slower, usually more melodic movement and finished with something more upbeat, typically a fast piece and commonly a Rondo, the musical equivalent of a sandwich. The sonata was so versatile a gameplan, relying on tonality rather than form for its structure that it became the backbone of all music, symphonies, overtures, Concertos, and intermission music for opera.

In Beethoven's hands the final movement became even weightier than the first movement, a sort of apotheosis. It also grew to four movements as Beethoven realised the need for lighter material between the ends.

Brahms' third sonata grew to five movements and around 35 minutes in length. The sonata became too big.

The Romantics looked for shorter pieces to express their personal feelings and emotions rather than an intellectual battle trying to top Beethoven. Schubert introduced lighter and more melodic material and shorter forms with his Impromptu's and Moments Musicaux. These led fairly directly to the Songs Without Words of Mendelssohn, and shorter pieces by Schumann. Chopin took inspiration from his native Poland and some of the classical ideas and developed Mazurkas, Polonaises, Waltzes and Nocturnes. His Ballades were fairly unique. He was, I believe, the first to use the term.

Liszt developed programme music and Legends while Brahms developed the Rhapsody, Caprice and Intermezzo.

An Etude is a study. They were first introduced in the late classical period and concentrated on technical development and could follow any mood or framework.

A title is a good indicator for interpretation and is more informative the more you understand of the composer who is using it and its historical perspective.

I think I see my boss coming... smile
_________________________
Richard

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#2022658 - 01/28/13 07:01 AM Re: Differences in Classical Styles. More Questions! [Re: zrtf90]
Allard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 342
Loc: Netherlands
Wow, Richard, there's a good read. Thanks smile
_________________________
David Lanz - Where the Tall Tree Grows
Nobuo Uematsu - Aerith's Theme (Final Fantasy VII Piano Collections)

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#2022662 - 01/28/13 07:18 AM Re: Differences in Classical Styles. More Questions! [Re: Mr. Cid]
WiseBuff Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 812
Loc: Brighton Colorado
It's early (5:18 am on my time) and I'm groggy...coffee in hand I sit down to check with PW before my piano time and stumble across this emerging discussion. Richard, your concise version is so packed with good information and I hope you weren't off work too long. I enjoyed it very much and am now AWAKE. Thank you.


Edited by WiseBuff (01/28/13 07:19 AM)
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Love to learn

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#2022667 - 01/28/13 07:44 AM Re: Differences in Classical Styles. More Questions! [Re: Allard]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2472
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Allard
Wow, Richard, there's a good read. Thanks smile


Agreed.

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#2022795 - 01/28/13 11:52 AM Re: Differences in Classical Styles. More Questions! [Re: Mr. Cid]
joyoussong Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 739
Loc: Canada
You might find Rob Kapilow's books helpful. <http://www.robkapilow.com/books.shtml> I read the first one, "All you have to do is listen;" it explains a lot about how music is structured. I read the copy from the public library & it referred to sample clips that you could listen to on Kapilow's website. I don't know if the site is still active, but there might be a CD of the samples too.

I first heard Kapilow on the CBC & he was fascinating to listen to - he might also have done segments for NPR, & those might be available online.
_________________________
Carol
(Started playing July 2008)



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#2022878 - 01/28/13 02:39 PM Re: Differences in Classical Styles. More Questions! [Re: Mr. Cid]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11803
Loc: Canada
Earlier. The Greeks had a system for writing music. The Mesopotamians before the Greeks also had a system for writing. But Europe, during the "Dark Ages" had no system for writing music. When the Roman Empire collapsed, a lot of stuff was moved to Constantinople including the Greek writings. These writings found their way back into Western Europe later, and had a profound influence on developments thereafter. And then on to d'Arezzi where Richard continues the tale. smile

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#2023122 - 01/28/13 10:35 PM Re: Differences in Classical Styles. More Questions! [Re: zrtf90]
Mr. Cid Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 19
Loc: Minneapolis, MN of the USA
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
More bold Italics, Mr Cid?

Until Guido D'Arezzo developed a means of writing down music there is no history before plainchant that we can recreate. We know music was fairly important at the time of the Egyptian Pharaohs and was developed strongly by the classical Greeks but we have no way of knowing what their music sounded like. When the Roman Empire collapsed, the music died with it.

The music that emerged from the Dark Ages was plainchant and in the Renaissance music moved away from octaves and fifths and introduced thirds and cadences, song forms were developed. The troubadours of Spain started spreading these songs in contrast to the Church's influence and strongly ruled form of music. At the end of the sixteenth century we began to develop equal temperament, a more versatile way of dividing the octave than pure tone, and dissonance. This was the birth of the Baroque period and keyboard music.

In the Baroque period, the suite became the main vehicle for music. A suite is a collection of pieces in varying speeds along the slow-fast-slow-fast plan initiated by Corelli. The individual pieces were named after popular dances of the day which was as good a way as any of indicating the general metre and tempo. Bach's French suites followed an Allemande-Courante-Sarabande-Minuet & Double-Gigue sort of format.

The suite was transformed by CPE Bach and emerged as the sonata, the main vehicle in the classical times of Haydn and Mozart. It typically consisted of an intellectually engaging thematic movement followed by a slower, usually more melodic movement and finished with something more upbeat, typically a fast piece and commonly a Rondo, the musical equivalent of a sandwich. The sonata was so versatile a gameplan, relying on tonality rather than form for its structure that it became the backbone of all music, symphonies, overtures, Concertos, and intermission music for opera.

In Beethoven's hands the final movement became even weightier than the first movement, a sort of apotheosis. It also grew to four movements as Beethoven realised the need for lighter material between the ends.

Brahms' third sonata grew to five movements and around 35 minutes in length. The sonata became too big.

The Romantics looked for shorter pieces to express their personal feelings and emotions rather than an intellectual battle trying to top Beethoven. Schubert introduced lighter and more melodic material and shorter forms with his Impromptu's and Moments Musicaux. These led fairly directly to the Songs Without Words of Mendelssohn, and shorter pieces by Schumann. Chopin took inspiration from his native Poland and some of the classical ideas and developed Mazurkas, Polonaises, Waltzes and Nocturnes. His Ballades were fairly unique. He was, I believe, the first to use the term.

Liszt developed programme music and Legends while Brahms developed the Rhapsody, Caprice and Intermezzo.

An Etude is a study. They were first introduced in the late classical period and concentrated on technical development and could follow any mood or framework.

A title is a good indicator for interpretation and is more informative the more you understand of the composer who is using it and its historical perspective.

I think I see my boss coming... smile



Wow great response, going to save this page to look back on this! Also, the bold italics is just a style of writing I am very fond of! smile
_________________________
Just your average beginner that is passionate at what he loves! MUSIC AND INSTRUMENTS!

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#2023219 - 01/29/13 02:44 AM Re: Differences in Classical Styles. More Questions! [Re: joyoussong]
Cassiesmom Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 56
Loc: Mid Atlantic, US.
This thread was a great read!

joyoussong-I found Rob Kapilow's page on NPR and have thus far only listened to the first track about Schumann's Traumerei. It was fascinating and I can't wait to listen to the rest... What a great recommendation!
i'll have to check the library for his books!

http://www.npr.org/artists/91234412/robert-kapilow

Regards
c

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#2023402 - 01/29/13 11:45 AM Re: Differences in Classical Styles. More Questions! [Re: Mr. Cid]
joyoussong Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 739
Loc: Canada
"What Makes it Great" is the second book, which I hadn't read/listened to yet; I'm listening to the Chopin right now, but have to leave in a few minutes so the rest will have to wait till later. Cassiesmom, thanks for posting the NPR link.
_________________________
Carol
(Started playing July 2008)



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#2023497 - 01/29/13 02:54 PM Re: Differences in Classical Styles. More Questions! [Re: Mr. Cid]
packa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1399
Loc: Dallas, TX
Just one historical note. Neumatic notation of Western plainchant predates Guido of Arezzo. For example, the St. Gall Codex 359 dates from the late 9th/early 10th century and already demonstrates a well developed (although staffless) Medieval system for notating some musical features of the liturgy.
_________________________
Paul Buchanan
Estonia L168 #1718

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