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#2021664 - 01/26/13 01:23 PM Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces
Music for piano Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/25/13
Posts: 6
Pianists are wanted for performing and recording several neo-romantic and contemporary compositions. Please check the website Music for piano to get complete information. Pavel

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#2021758 - 01/26/13 04:56 PM Re: Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces [Re: Music for piano]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5281
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
First and only post asking for pianists to perform ... and no mention of remuneration.

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#2021777 - 01/26/13 05:23 PM Re: Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces [Re: Dave Horne]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6418
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
First and only post asking for pianists to perform ... and no mention of remuneration.



It was mentioned......sort of.

"Please choose the piece which you would like to perform and write to me about it at musicforpiano@narod.ru and I will send you the score. Let me know how much money you would charge for your performance and recording of the piece. (Or, maybe, you would like to perform and record it free of charge?) If I agree with the amount then please play and record the piece and send it to me. If the technical performance, quality of the recording, and interpretation (style of playing) are satisfactory to me then I will send you the money via mail (check) or by any other means acceptable to you."

Not so clear HOW the recordings would be used......
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#2021933 - 01/27/13 12:38 AM Re: Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces [Re: carey]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19830
Loc: New York
"Sort of"?
He mentions it very prominently!

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#2021968 - 01/27/13 02:41 AM Re: Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces [Re: Music for piano]
Derulux Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5344
Loc: Philadelphia
Sorry, but I'm certainly going to decline this offer. If you would like your music played, make the score available. I am sure there are many members who would be interested in taking a look.

If you're looking for a production, and desire professional results, then you'll have to get a little more professional in your approach. The "...maybe I'll pay you if I think I might like it, but if I don't, I won't pay you at all, even though you provided a recording (read: 'service')..." idea just doesn't fly. Explain what it is you're doing, the purpose of the recordings, agree on what rights will be exchanged for what level of compensation, what qualifies as compensation, etc etc. I for one, wouldn't touch it with a 30-ft pole for anything as vague as what you've offered. Sorry.
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2022057 - 01/27/13 09:09 AM Re: Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces [Re: Mark_C]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6418
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
"Sort of"?
He mentions it very prominently!


Well sure - that's why I posted the paragraph. The pianists either do this for free or ask for an amount they'd like to receive - but ultimately it's up to the OP to decided whether or not he wants to pay. Seems kind of "sort of" to me regardless of the prominence of the language. crazy
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#2022064 - 01/27/13 09:27 AM Re: Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces [Re: Mark_C]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12137
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
"Sort of"?
He mentions it very prominently!


Except that it has to be to his satisfaction before paying. I would much prefer to be contracted to play pieces based on submitted recordings, resume, and references with a guarantee of payment for my work. That way the composer can rest assured they have selected a professional who can accomplish the task to their liking, and the performer can be guaranteed they will get payment.

This arrangement seems too loosey-goosey for my tastes.
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#2022208 - 01/27/13 01:47 PM Re: Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces [Re: Morodiene]
Music for piano Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/25/13
Posts: 6
Ideally it would be great to find pianists willing to perform these compositions without compensation -- that is to say, for the joy of playing something new and bringing this music to life for others to hear.

However, regarding payment, it is true that it would be on the condition that the recording is satisfactory in MY opinion with regard to technical quality and interpretation.

Recognizing that few professional pianists would be willing to expend a lot of energy and time with the possibility that their efforts are for nothing, let me suggest the following: that a short sample (2-3 min) be recorded first of a composition which is not at all technically challenging (for example, Piece No.4 on the website). We can continue based on that, perhaps recording the chosen work in sections rather than the whole piece at once.

Some people asked about how the recordings would be used. At the very least I would like to have these works available in better quality recordings. But eventually I would like to offer them to recording companies for publication. In this case most of the royalties would go to the pianist.

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#2022220 - 01/27/13 02:21 PM Re: Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces [Re: Music for piano]
Derulux Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5344
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Music for piano
Ideally it would be great to find pianists willing to perform these compositions without compensation -- that is to say, for the joy of playing something new and bringing this music to life for others to hear.

Some people asked about how the recordings would be used. At the very least I would like to have these works available in better quality recordings. But eventually I would like to offer them to recording companies for publication. In this case most of the royalties would go to the pianist.

If you want pianists to play it without compensating them, make the score available. I am sure there are people who will play it and post it up, either here, on YouTube, or both.

It sounded very much like you were trying to take this to publication, which is why I initially balked. Your terms are not going to attract any professional pianists, and probably not many good amateur pianists (IMO). You'd need a well-written contract, at the very least, to attract anybody of worth/merit into this sort of venture.
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Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2022239 - 01/27/13 03:05 PM Re: Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces [Re: carey]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19830
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
"Sort of"?
He mentions it very prominently!

Well sure - that's why I posted the paragraph. The pianists either do this for free or ask for an amount they'd like to receive - but ultimately it's up to the OP to decided whether or not he wants to pay. Seems kind of "sort of" to me regardless of the prominence of the language. crazy

Remember, this was all in answer to the first reply, which said there was no mention of remuneration -- which was flatly false and therefore unfair to the OP but nobody had said so. That's what I was reacting to.

I don't disagree with the other stuff that's been said about it -- including that if I were to consider doing it and wanted remuneration, I'd insist on working out something more definite before doing anything.

Regarding who this would or wouldn't attract, as is: If I had more time on my hands now, I'd consider doing a couple of the pieces, even without definite advance agreement on anything. But for sure he's limiting his possible field by how he's putting it.

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#2022243 - 01/27/13 03:12 PM Re: Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces [Re: Music for piano]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5361
Loc: Europe
when I was looking around for illustrators (sketch artists, rather), I placed an ad to a busy concept art forum. Within a weekend I go around 30 replies in my inbox! I was so amazed that I think I made a thread here, semi-complaining about how slow we musicians are...

The ad mentioned that it was paid, the amount (won't disclose that), and various small details (deadlines, etc). I can tell you that it wasn't A LOT of money for the job (and some of you have seen the job done, so you can realize what we're talking about here).

Why I'm mentioning this here?

Because from the 30+ replies I got over the weekend, I asked from 4 of them to give me a sample (1-2 illustrations out of the 21, from any of the given themes). But more importantly I offered a sample/demo payment! It was a low amount of 50$, and most declined, but all commended that they rarely see that in concept art/sketch art.

I kept contact with a couple of these people, worked with Piero Pierini, more than once, but as far as I know they're all quite happy with the demo fee they were offered.

RESPECT the people you work with.

It's simple as that!

__________________

Another thing that I should mention to the OP is that if you decide to go for publication, you'll need a signed release form from your artist. Nobody in the business will want to get in trouble, from someone asking a payoff after a release... After all there's copyrights for your music, but there's copyrights for the performance as well!

__________________

EDIT: @Dave... I came to these forums looking for a performer for my work 'Perniciosus' back in 2006 or something... So this is not the first post asking for performers, but I did mention there would be payment... :-/ Not the exact amount of course out in the open, that's absurd... wink


Edited by Nikolas (01/27/13 03:14 PM)
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#2022245 - 01/27/13 03:16 PM Re: Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces [Re: Nikolas]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3829
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Nikolas

RESPECT the people you work with.

It's simple as that!

You're a class act, Nikolas.... congrats on all of your recent developments, including the new four-handed pieces and the new publishing company!

-J
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#2022497 - 01/27/13 10:55 PM Re: Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces [Re: Music for piano]
DanS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/12
Posts: 564
Originally Posted By: Music for piano
Some people asked about how the recordings would be used. At the very least I would like to have these works available in better quality recordings. But eventually I would like to offer them to recording companies for publication. In this case most of the royalties would go to the pianist.


No offense, but this sends up a bunch of red flags. It doesn't seem like you have any sort of business model in place. Also, saying "most of the royalties would go to the pianist" is music biz talk for 'you ain't getting paid.' What percentage?

Also, the website said that you'd pay upfront, so is it work for hire? Generally speaking, performers creating a work for hire don't get royalties. That's what those 'waiver of rights' forms are for.

-I'm not a lawyer, this is not meant to be legal advice to anyone-
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"Most pianists are poor musicians, they dissect music into bits-and-pieces, like a roast chicken" -Debussy

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#2022647 - 01/28/13 06:02 AM Re: Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces [Re: Nikolas]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5281
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
EDIT: @Dave... I came to these forums looking for a performer for my work 'Perniciosus' back in 2006 or something... So this is not the first post asking for performers, but I did mention there would be payment... :-/ Not the exact amount of course out in the open, that's absurd... wink

Actually, my 'first and only post' comment by me referred to the original poster's initial post which at that time was the first and only post he had contributed to this forum. smile
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#2022826 - 01/28/13 12:59 PM Re: Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces [Re: Music for piano]
Music for piano Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/25/13
Posts: 6
It seems that I can not reach my goal here - to find pianists who would like to perform the works on the mentioned website. So, I would like to ask all of you who kindly replied to my post: which forums for pianists do you know of other than this one? Or other ways of finding performers?

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#2022828 - 01/28/13 01:01 PM Re: Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces [Re: Music for piano]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19830
Loc: New York
I think this is as good a place as any, and that wherever you ask, it would be good to heed the thoughts that have been expressed. They're the main issues, not 'where' you asked.

Besides online stuff, if there are any conservatories or colleges near you, you might want to contact the piano departments, maybe even go over there in person, and see if there are students who would be interested. And BTW for such inquiring it would also be good to heed the thoughts that have been expressed.

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#2022829 - 01/28/13 01:03 PM Re: Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces [Re: Dave Horne]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5361
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
EDIT: @Dave... I came to these forums looking for a performer for my work 'Perniciosus' back in 2006 or something... So this is not the first post asking for performers, but I did mention there would be payment... :-/ Not the exact amount of course out in the open, that's absurd... wink

Actually, my 'first and only post' comment by me referred to the original poster's initial post which at that time was the first and only post he had contributed to this forum. smile
whoops... okie. sorry for misunderstanding...
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#2023054 - 01/28/13 08:18 PM Re: Pianists are wanted for performing and recording some pieces [Re: Music for piano]
Derulux Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5344
Loc: Philadelphia
I agree with Mark. Being pushy certainly won't help you reach your goal. Remember, everyone here that has responded is actually trying to help. Some are professionals. Others are distinguished amateurs. And then there's me.

Professional pianists are already getting paid for their work. If you, a completely unknown, approach them with a very vague concept (including an extremely vague idea of what "compensation" means), and then try to pressure them into working for you, I am afraid you are going to be sorely disappointed. They don't necessarily need you for their livelihood in the way that you need "them" for this project. You need to convince them that what you are doing is worthwhile for them, and so far you have not been straightforward enough to do so.

Distinguished amateurs are certainly capable of playing professionally. They're good enough. But they make their money another way. Similarly, you will have to convince them that you're not wasting their time. So far, you haven't done that. You've promised it, but your ideas are too vague to be convincing.

Let me try suggesting my previous suggestion again:

Forget the production. Forget the CD. Forget the remuneration. Offer your scores for free. People here, I am sure, will pick them up, play them, record them, and post them. You may listen. But that's it. No one can "sell" the recordings for profit.

Once this step is complete, then we can talk more about contracts and how to produce music. But if your goal is simply to have people play your music, then drop the facade, get rid of the production, and just let people play it.
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