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#2021532 - 01/26/13 08:14 AM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: Mark_C]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6149
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Hey, but it's "written" for just the L.H.! grin
what's written. smile
And of course vice versa!)

You must have fits with the first page.

And you must have fits trying to quote a post! grin


But seriously folks.... ha do you mean you re-divide some stuff on there?
I might learn something else! smile
(Although, I suspect I wouldn't want to do it there. I like keeping those voices straight.)

edit: I think I only just got this. ha
(see later post)




I wondered why nobody got that, but then realized that other editions had the hands split. On a side note, I play the octaves in the middle all with my left hand.
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#2021563 - 01/26/13 10:08 AM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: JordanS.]
Orange Soda King Offline
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Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
^ LOL ^

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#2021662 - 01/26/13 01:23 PM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: Damon]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Damon
....On a side note, I play the octaves in the middle all with my left hand.

I have too, when I performed it. (Because it wasn't any worse that way.) grin

But not when I'm just practicing it -- because why bother? ha

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#2021671 - 01/26/13 01:32 PM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: Mark_C]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6149
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Damon
....On a side note, I play the octaves in the middle all with my left hand.

I have too, when I performed it. (Because it wasn't any worse that way.) grin

But not when I'm just practicing it -- because why bother? ha


When I'm practicing that section, I start at the soto voce, ignoring those other bars altogether.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#2021728 - 01/26/13 03:43 PM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: Damon]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6353
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Damon
....On a side note, I play the octaves in the middle all with my left hand.

I have too, when I performed it. (Because it wasn't any worse that way.) grin

But not when I'm just practicing it -- because why bother? ha


When I'm practicing that section, I start at the soto voce, ignoring those other bars altogether.


Why????? Isn't that part of the challenge of playing the middle section??? crazy

And after trying both approaches off and on over the years, I still favor playing the opening measures with both hands. Although now that I've switched to playing the lower notes of the four note octave groupings with 5-4-4-5 I've found I have much less tension compared to using 5-5-5-5.

Whatever works - right ???? grin
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#2021732 - 01/26/13 03:55 PM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: carey]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6149
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Damon
....On a side note, I play the octaves in the middle all with my left hand.

I have too, when I performed it. (Because it wasn't any worse that way.) grin

But not when I'm just practicing it -- because why bother? ha


When I'm practicing that section, I start at the soto voce, ignoring those other bars altogether.


Why????? Isn't that part of the challenge of playing the middle section??? crazy
grin


Only in the sense that stamina is part of the challenge. If I can play the section, adding those two bars are hardly a challenge.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#2021741 - 01/26/13 04:32 PM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: Damon]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Damon
Only in the sense that stamina is part of the challenge....

ha ha

Now you're really blurring the line between sarcastic and straight, because I think you thought you were being serious there, but you can't be. grin

(Stamina is most of that challenge.)

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#2021781 - 01/26/13 05:31 PM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: Damon]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6353
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Damon
....On a side note, I play the octaves in the middle all with my left hand.
I have too, when I performed it. (Because it wasn't any worse that way.) grin But not when I'm just practicing it -- because why bother? ha
When I'm practicing that section, I start at the soto voce, ignoring those other bars altogether.
Why????? Isn't that part of the challenge of playing the middle section??? crazygrin
Only in the sense that stamina is part of the challenge. If I can play the section, adding those two bars are hardly a challenge.

Actually, playing the two measures with the LH only along with the rest of the middle section two times through as required is one heck of a stamina issue for many.
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#2021782 - 01/26/13 05:33 PM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: Mark_C]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6149
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Damon
Only in the sense that stamina is part of the challenge....

ha ha

Now you're really blurring the line between sarcastic and straight, because I think you thought you were being serious there, but you can't be. grin

(Stamina is most of that challenge.)


Regardless, I can practice the octaves and the rest at the same time. There is no need to practice those two bars alone; there are plenty of repeats and it doesn't hurt to practice the right hand. I don't play the octaves with two hands, ever. So what is the point, is there some danger that I'll get to the last 4 bars of that section and run out gas? I don't.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#2022981 - 01/28/13 05:15 PM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: JoelW]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Been practicing and playing it with the new swindle, and I think it's gonna work. But the reason I'm bringing it back up is, I have an amendment on it. grin

For the second squiggle, i.e. the mordent on the high A-flat, I'm trying 3 instead of 4 on the Ab, so the fingering up there is 3432 rather than 4543. It has disadvantages but I think the advantages outweigh them.

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#2023048 - 01/28/13 08:01 PM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: Mark_C]
Derulux Offline
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Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5321
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Been practicing and playing it with the new swindle, and I think it's gonna work. But the reason I'm bringing it back up is, I have an amendment on it. grin

For the second squiggle, i.e. the mordent on the high A-flat, I'm trying 3 instead of 4 on the Ab, so the fingering up there is 3432 rather than 4543. It has disadvantages but I think the advantages outweigh them.

Really? Only on the 2nd and not the 1st? I tend to do it the other way around when I do play the 343.
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#2023074 - 01/28/13 08:53 PM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: JordanS.]
pianoloverus Online   content
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After years of study experimentation and consultation I have found that the opening octave of this piece is best played using 1-5 in both hands. (This is at least as important/interesting as many of the recent posts on this thread.)

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#2023080 - 01/28/13 09:03 PM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: pianoloverus]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6353
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
After years of study experimentation and consultation I have found that the opening octave of this piece is best played using 1-5 in both hands. (This is at least as important/interesting as many of the recent posts on this thread.)


1-5 in the LH instead of 5-1 ???? Now THAT'S interesting !!! grin
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YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2023096 - 01/28/13 09:25 PM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: pianoloverus]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4785
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
After years of study experimentation and consultation I have found that the opening octave of this piece is best played using 1-5 in both hands. (This is at least as important/interesting as many of the recent posts on this thread.)


How is this important?

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#2023128 - 01/28/13 10:50 PM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: JoelW]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
I think he's just pulling our chains there. ha

And BTW that thing about the first chord is basically a subset of the age-old debate of "4th or 5th finger on black-key octaves?"

Everyone has his/her own answer, plus in general "the state of the art" comes and goes in fads and waves.

Current fad/state of the art: Dunno, I've lost track. ha

My view for me: It depends and varies according to context.
For those opening octaves of this piece: Whichever finger hurts less at the time. grin

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#2023136 - 01/28/13 11:10 PM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: pianoloverus]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6149
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
After years of study experimentation and consultation I have found that the opening octave of this piece is best played using 1-5 in both hands. (This is at least as important/interesting as many of the recent posts on this thread.)


I use the 4th and 5th fingers on the outer notes. How do you play that next chord?
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#2023137 - 01/28/13 11:13 PM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: Damon]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Damon
I use the 4th and 5th fingers on the outer notes. How do you play that next chord?

You realize you're risking being told that your post wasn't as interesting as his.... grin

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#2023138 - 01/28/13 11:20 PM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: JordanS.]
Dustin Spray Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 51
Loc: Central Illinois
I was thinking about trying to learn this piece. How brutal is it to learn? It may be beyond my league. I'm to the point of playing Prelude in C sharp minor by Rachmaninov and Prelude in D flat Major Chopin. I think it's about twice the difficulty of those pieces?


Edited by Dustin Spray (01/29/13 01:59 AM)

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#2023140 - 01/28/13 11:25 PM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: Dustin Spray]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Dustin Spray
I was thinking about trying to learn this song. How brutal is it to learn? It may be beyond my league. I'm to the point of playing Prelude in C sharp minor by Rachmaninov and Prelude in D flat Major Chopin. I think it's about twice the difficulty of those pieces?

First of all, let me apologize in advance for anyone who gets on your case for calling it a "song"! (We have some snobs about that.)

That said, anyone who calls this piece a song probably isn't advanced enough to play it. grin

But that shouldn't stop you from giving it a try and seeing what you can make of it! smile

BTW, it's not twice as hard as those other pieces. It's 1000 times as hard!
I'm serious. It's much harder.

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#2023190 - 01/29/13 02:02 AM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: Mark_C]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18069
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Dustin Spray
I was thinking about trying to learn this song. How brutal is it to learn? It may be beyond my league. I'm to the point of playing Prelude in C sharp minor by Rachmaninov and Prelude in D flat Major Chopin. I think it's about twice the difficulty of those pieces?

First of all, let me apologize in advance for anyone who gets on your case for calling it a "song"! (We have some snobs about that.)

That said, anyone who calls this piece a song probably isn't advanced enough to play it. grin

But that shouldn't stop you from giving it a try and seeing what you can make of it! smile

BTW, it's not twice as hard as those other pieces. It's 1000 times as hard!
I'm serious. It's much harder.


Since DS is evidently planning to sing this "song," it may be only 500 times more difficult than the other works in his repertoire, particularly if he is singing those "songs" too.

Regards,
[One of the Snobs]
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BruceD
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#2023191 - 01/29/13 02:05 AM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: Mark_C]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6353
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Dustin Spray
I was thinking about trying to learn this song. How brutal is it to learn? It may be beyond my league. I'm to the point of playing Prelude in C sharp minor by Rachmaninov and Prelude in D flat Major Chopin. I think it's about twice the difficulty of those pieces?

First of all, let me apologize in advance for anyone who gets on your case for calling it a "song"! (We have some snobs about that.)That said, anyone who calls this piece a song probably isn't advanced enough to play it. grin

Snobbery has nothing to do with it. It's just plain wrong. smile
Quote:
But that shouldn't stop you from giving it a try and seeing what you can make of it! smile

Sure, he can give it a try - but I'd strongly recommend instead that he take a look at the Military Polonaise Opus 40 No. 1 or the Polonaise Opus 40 No. 2 - both of which are worth learning and fun to play.
Quote:
BTW, it's not twice as hard as those other pieces. It's 1000 times as hard!

Well maybe 100 times as hard....... grin




Edited by carey (01/29/13 02:06 AM)
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#2023193 - 01/29/13 02:07 AM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: BruceD]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Since DS is evidently planning to sing this "song," it may be only 500 times more difficult than the other works in his repertoire.

Regards,
[One of the Snobs]

It depends. For me, it would be 500 times harder to try to sing anything than to play it on the piano. ha

Maybe not. Let's see how it would be to sing this piece....

BUH!!!
buh da da da da da DA!!
bum....bum.....bum
buh da da da buh da da da buh da da da buh da da da buh da da da DA!!

Huh....maybe it's not so hard to sing after all. grin

BY THE WAY -- would you believe, never in all my life did I realize (consciously) how the L.H. octave thing in the middle is derived from the opening, till I wrote out the "buh da da da" above. smile


QUESTION: Who DID realize it? Anybody?

P.S. Let's see how long it takes for Pianoloverus to say how uninteresting this is. grin

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#2023200 - 01/29/13 02:11 AM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: Mark_C]
Dustin Spray Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 51
Loc: Central Illinois
I apoligize and thank you for correcting me. I was totally in the wrong and I edited my post. blush I have always loved this piece and have wanted to play it. I knew it was a difficult but didnt know it was that difficult. eek I played thru the first 2 or 3 pages a few years ago, but thats probably the easier sections. Maybe the Chopin book should go back into the filing cabnet for a few more years......... frown

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#2023201 - 01/29/13 02:12 AM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: Dustin Spray]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Oh no!!! Now we have people apologizing for saying "song"? grin

(Hey Dustin, it's all good!)

Quote:
I played thru the first 2 or 3 pages a few years ago, but thats probably the easier sections.

The first page is probably as hard as anything else in the piece.

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#2023206 - 01/29/13 02:21 AM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: JordanS.]
Dustin Spray Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 51
Loc: Central Illinois
Military Polonaise Op 40 is a grand piece maybe I will consider that. Like I said I fumbled thru the first 2 or 3 pages. I just didnt dedicate any serious time to them. Im just starting piano again after a near 13 year hiatus. I started in 8th grade and played all the way thru high school and got busy with life. I was thinking a few weeks ago about all the fond memories I had thru high school playing piano. So two weeks I went out and bought a Kawai CA65. I am thrilled with it and cant stop playing it. I live in a apt so a real piano may be a trick. I was hoping to re-kindle the fire with the Kawai digital and look into something different if and when I move. Anyways, thanks for all the constructive feedback and I am grateful for such a wonderful forum.

-Dustin

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#2023210 - 01/29/13 02:26 AM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: Dustin Spray]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6353
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Dustin Spray
Military Polonaise Op 40 is a grand piece maybe I will consider that. Like I said I fumbled thru the first 2 or 3 pages. I just didnt dedicate any serious time to them. Im just starting piano again after a near 13 year hiatus. I started in 8th grade and played all the way thru high school and got busy with life. I was thinking a few weeks ago about all the fond memories I had thru high school playing piano. So two weeks I went out and bought a Kawai CA65. I am thrilled with it and cant stop playing it. I live in a apt so a real piano may be a trick. I was hoping to re-kindle the fire with the Kawai digital and look into something different if and when I move. Anyways, thanks for all the constructive feedback and I am grateful for such a wonderful forum.


And we're thrilled for you !!!! So good that you are getting back to playing !!! Enjoy your new digital and, above all, have fun !!!!


Edited by carey (01/29/13 02:27 AM)
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#2023225 - 01/29/13 02:55 AM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: JordanS.]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4785
Loc: USA
Heroic polonaise? I love that song.

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#2023227 - 01/29/13 03:02 AM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: JoelW]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Heroic polonaise? I love that song.



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#2023234 - 01/29/13 03:12 AM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: Damon]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5321
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
After years of study experimentation and consultation I have found that the opening octave of this piece is best played using 1-5 in both hands. (This is at least as important/interesting as many of the recent posts on this thread.)


I use the 4th and 5th fingers on the outer notes. How do you play that next chord?

If you mean the rising 16ths, I've done it two ways: with one hand (the right), and split. When I split, I actually play the top two notes of each chord with my right hand, and the bottom chromatic note with my left.

And I apologize if I missed a joke. Sometimes I don't quite catch the subtlety when it's written out. smile


PS- I would think singing this song would be much harder than playing it. Especially since one person has to sing more than one pitch.. wink


PSS-
Originally Posted By: carey
Sure, he can give it a try - but I'd strongly recommend instead that he take a look at the Military Polonaise Opus 40 No. 1 or the Polonaise Opus 40 No. 2 - both of which are worth learning and fun to play.

I vote for Op 40 No 2. I love the military, but no2 is great fun. smile
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2023239 - 01/29/13 03:26 AM Re: Chopin's Op. 53... [Re: Mark_C]
Dustin Spray Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 51
Loc: Central Illinois
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Heroic polonaise? I love that song.




Thats what I was taking about all along! wink

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