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#2023410 - 01/29/13 12:10 PM Question about Mozart's Turkish March
Mr_LongFingers Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 8
Loc: The Netherlands, Bergen op Zoo...
Hi all,

I'm taking my first steps into the piano playing experience. Although I've had a piano for several years, I didn't get quite serious until very recently.

Anyway, the Turkish March is one of the pieces I'm learning right now. And I'm stuck at bar 4 already.
The sheet music tells me to play (right hand): B-A-G#-A, B-A-G-A.
But this doesn't seem right. I've watched some online lessons and they play B-A-G#-A, B-A-G#-A, wich seems to be the correct way of playing.

Am I reading the score wrong or could it be a misprint?
(I'm using this score by the way: http://www.free-scores.com/download-sheet-music.php?pdf=508)

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#2023414 - 01/29/13 12:17 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2406
Sorry, no offense, but if you are asking such a basic question about note reading then you should definitely not attempt a Mozart Sonata.
_________________________
Put in one of IMO, I think, to me, for me... or similar to all sentences I post

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#2023415 - 01/29/13 12:19 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21307
Loc: Oakland
The accidental modifies that G until the end of the bar. It might be worth having a lesson or two just to get you past the basics.
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Semipro Tech

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#2023420 - 01/29/13 12:27 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 853
Loc: UK, Brighton
Oh dear...I'd agree with Hakki but...um, to answer your query the music *does* indicate B A G# A B A G# A...because, you see, accidentals carry through the measure; until indicated with a natural sign, all notes of the same pitch are to be played with the accidental in the measure. So, um, the # on the G remains through until the C (so, for instance, the sixth bar reads (g a) B F#A EG F#A...sorry, um, unless you're significantly better at playing than reading you're going to struggle with this...but we all have to start somewhere, so don't feel silly for asking smile
Xxx
Edit: P.S. I'd be glad to answer any questions you have about any aspect of piano playing; feel free to email me at fluttershyoakley@gmail.com <3
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2023424 - 01/29/13 12:35 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
Ian_G Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/07/10
Posts: 168
Loc: Germany
An absolutely glorious post as always, FSO. Um! Einfach vom Himmel gefallen!

I'd like to encourage our OP to get a teacher, or get a book on theory basics and keep at it!

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#2023425 - 01/29/13 12:36 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6096
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
I agree with BDB that you should brush up your theory so your experience with music will be more pleasant. Strictly speaking it is also bar 3 you are talking about because the first bar is actually an anacrusis. smile
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#2023426 - 01/29/13 12:36 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
Mr_LongFingers Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 8
Loc: The Netherlands, Bergen op Zoo...
I'm fully aware that my skills are nowhere near where they should be to be playing a piece like this.
It's just one of those pieces that I want to play, eventually. It might take years to get me there, but I figured there's no harm in giving it a shot.

I'm actually learning the piano with Alfred's Basic Adult All-in-one course, and I haven't come across anything like this yet.
I'm tackling pieces like this to improve my sight-reading and, quite simply, because I enjoy it.

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#2023437 - 01/29/13 12:51 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
Mr_LongFingers Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 8
Loc: The Netherlands, Bergen op Zoo...
Thank you, FSO. Like I said, I'm really new to this whole experience, so I didn't have a clue!
It makes sense now, so thank you.

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#2023456 - 01/29/13 01:24 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 853
Loc: UK, Brighton
You're more than welcome, as always shall you be. Of course I completely sympathise with your wishes; at a level not too dissimilar to your own I endeavoured to master Grieg's piano concerto... laugh Um...I think...well, I don't know if he treats everyone the same, but I found Bach to be the best teacher...just saying laugh
Ian...du bist zu gütig aber...danke schön, du hast meine dankbarkeit (
verzeihen, bitte, mein schlecht Grammatik).
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2023467 - 01/29/13 01:48 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
Ian_G Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/07/10
Posts: 168
Loc: Germany
Bitte schön, FSO! Darf ich was vorschlagen? Auch beim deutsch schreiben sollst du "um" reinstreuen. Ach, lieber Gott! Das wäre was.

Mr. Longfingers: I'd suggest doing some abstract work, too. You have the thing clocked, haven't you, as to how it sounds. Shuffle it around in your noodle some, look at it from different angles.

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#2023485 - 01/29/13 02:13 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 853
Loc: UK, Brighton
Das ist ein schrecklich Idee! Entschuldigung aber...um...nicht wahr? Obwohl...es geht um der Sinn...ich werde darüber nachzudenken laugh
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#2023488 - 01/29/13 02:25 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: FSO]
Ian_G Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/07/10
Posts: 168
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: FSO
...es geht um der Sinn...


War das absichtlich? Sag mal, dass das absichtlich war! Kannst mir ruhig ein PM schicken damit the thread isn't further hijacked.

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#2023517 - 01/29/13 03:35 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
Matt Walker Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 16
Loc: Birmingham, UK
Sorry to do a bit of hijacking, but my version of Turkish March has the first note semi-quaver B as an appoggiatura and the following A as a quaver. My question is, why? Why not just have four semi-quavers?

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#2023554 - 01/29/13 04:56 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Matt Walker]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6096
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: Matt Walker
Sorry to do a bit of hijacking, but my version of Turkish March has the first note semi-quaver B as an appoggiatura and the following A as a quaver. My question is, why? Why not just have four semi-quavers?


What you have is the Urtext. It is a long appoggiatura, so it is substantially the same, so some editions probably simplify it.
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#2023566 - 01/29/13 05:28 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5286
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Mr_LongFingers
I'm fully aware that my skills are nowhere near where they should be to be playing a piece like this.
It's just one of those pieces that I want to play, eventually. It might take years to get me there, but I figured there's no harm in giving it a shot.

I'm actually learning the piano with Alfred's Basic Adult All-in-one course, and I haven't come across anything like this yet.
I'm tackling pieces like this to improve my sight-reading and, quite simply, because I enjoy it.


I would recommend putting this piece on the shelf. I know it's a goal, and that's great, but you're not ready to tackle it. It would be like saying, "My goal is to run a marathon, so tomorrow I'm going to start by running 26 miles." It just doesn't work that way. It will take you far too long to complete, and worse, when you get there, you still won't be able to do it. You have to train and build up to a marathon. Then, when you're finally ready, you can run one, finish it in an appropriate time--and more importantly--repeat the results.

You're better off taking days/weeks to learn easier pieces, build your ability slowly, and then, when you're finally ready for this piece, learn it in a week or two, rather than struggling with it for years.

Also, I would highly advise not using pieces above your level for sight-reading. It's counter-intuitive and counter-productive. Use pieces below your level. You'll learn to read better, and as you improve, you will be able to increase the level of your sight-reading by similar increments.
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2023872 - 01/30/13 07:08 AM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
Matt Walker Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 16
Loc: Birmingham, UK
Must admit I still struggle with the alberti bass and broken octaves even now.

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#2023896 - 01/30/13 08:13 AM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Turkish March

Most of us have added this classic Mozart to our repertoire ... and none of us would dare to muck around with a Wolfie "chune".

PS In welcoming Mr Longfingers to the Forum, it might be opportune to advise the OP that “long-fingers” is an English idiom for “a thief”...
watch your wallets chaps!

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#2023903 - 01/30/13 08:26 AM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
Mr_LongFingers Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 8
Loc: The Netherlands, Bergen op Zoo...
Thanks for the replies, guys.

I don't think I expressed myself quite right. I do want to learn the piece, eventually, but for now I'm just practicing the "easy bits". Is that really so wrong? It's just that I can't be bothered much by playing "Brother John" or "When the saints go marching in". Practicing those songs is mandatory if I want to play pieces like "The Turkish March", I guess.

My ultimate goal, the reason why I started playing in the first place, is to be able to play Chopin. Man, how I love "Nocturne op 9 no 2" and the "Nocturne in C# minor". I practice (parts of) those pieces every now and then, only to be put right back in to my place: an absolute beginner, years away from being able to play it.

By the way, I looked through Alfred's book again yesterday. On page 54 he mentioned that accidentals carry through the measure! I can't believe I missed that. I need to pay closer attention to the book and don't skip parts, haha.

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#2023904 - 01/30/13 08:27 AM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: btb]
Mr_LongFingers Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 8
Loc: The Netherlands, Bergen op Zoo...
Originally Posted By: btb
Turkish March

Most of us have added this classic Mozart to our repertoire ... and none of us would dare to muck around with a Wolfie "chune".

PS In welcoming Mr Longfingers to the Forum, it might be opportune to advise the OP that “long-fingers” is an English idiom for “a thief”...
watch your wallets chaps!





Haha, and again I learn something new!

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#2023917 - 01/30/13 08:57 AM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
bennevis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4859
If you dig Wolfie, why not try something simpler first? His Sonata in C, K545 (which he called Sonata facile, though it's 'too difficult for experienced pianists and too easy for beginners') is usually most pianists' introduction to his piano music, apart from his juvenilia like the K1 Minuet (which, by the way, you might want to have a go at - it's also the first Mozart my teacher taught me, a month after I started lessons).

K545 will introduce you to Alberti bass (which abounds in Mozart) as well as scales, arpeggios, trills, ornaments, cultivating good tone etc. But no tricky octaves or chords, unlike the Rondo alla turca. And you won't feel like you're playing children's music - it's high-class stuff which most great pianists from Sviatoslav Richter to Daniel Barenboim to Mitsuko Uchida have played.

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#2023926 - 01/30/13 09:19 AM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
Mr_LongFingers Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 8
Loc: The Netherlands, Bergen op Zoo...
Yes, I've also been practicing that piece, but I was a bit intimidated by the fast parts! I actually thought that the K545 piece was more difficult than The Turkish March. Thanks for the tip.

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#2023934 - 01/30/13 09:37 AM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
bennevis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4859
Originally Posted By: Mr_LongFingers
Yes, I've also been practicing that piece, but I was a bit intimidated by the fast parts! I actually thought that the K545 piece was more difficult than The Turkish March. Thanks for the tip.


The mistake many beginners (including myself, when I first learnt it) make is to play the outer movements, especially the first, too fast - just because it has what looks like lots of technical exercises for the fingers. But they are all part of the melody, and should be played as such with proper phrasing and articulation, and of course, should 'flow like oil' - just like the tune at the beginning. (Oddly, I first heard this when someone in The Addams Family (TV series, not movies) played it on the harpsichord..... grin....and I immediately wanted to learn it myself). When I first heard it played by a professional pianist (I think it was Mikhail Pletnev - who is no stranger to speed....), I was shocked that he played it at half the speed I was playing it.

The second movement is also pure Wolfie in its operatic aria-like melody over regular accompaniment, and I think it's a great introduction to the development and cultivation of the bel canto tone that you'll need eventually to play Chopin Nocturnes.

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#2024042 - 01/30/13 12:54 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
Matt Walker Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 16
Loc: Birmingham, UK
Originally Posted By: Mr_LongFingers
Yes, I've also been practicing that piece, but I was a bit intimidated by the fast parts! I actually thought that the K545 piece was more difficult than The Turkish March. Thanks for the tip.


The K545 I'd say is around about grade 5? Turkish March is definitely post Grade 8 IMO.

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#2024094 - 01/30/13 02:55 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5286
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Mr_LongFingers
Thanks for the replies, guys.

I don't think I expressed myself quite right. I do want to learn the piece, eventually, but for now I'm just practicing the "easy bits". Is that really so wrong? It's just that I can't be bothered much by playing "Brother John" or "When the saints go marching in". Practicing those songs is mandatory if I want to play pieces like "The Turkish March", I guess.

My ultimate goal, the reason why I started playing in the first place, is to be able to play Chopin. Man, how I love "Nocturne op 9 no 2" and the "Nocturne in C# minor". I practice (parts of) those pieces every now and then, only to be put right back in to my place: an absolute beginner, years away from being able to play it.

By the way, I looked through Alfred's book again yesterday. On page 54 he mentioned that accidentals carry through the measure! I can't believe I missed that. I need to pay closer attention to the book and don't skip parts, haha.

You don't have to do anything--except make a choice. The choices you make will determine whether you learn the Turkish March in 6 months, a year, five years, or never. (Same for Chopin.) wink
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2024134 - 01/30/13 03:58 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
Jolteon Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 526
Loc: Perth, Australia
Originally Posted By: Mr_LongFingers
I don't think I expressed myself quite right. I do want to learn the piece, eventually, but for now I'm just practicing the "easy bits". Is that really so wrong? It's just that I can't be bothered much by playing "Brother John" or "When the saints go marching in". Practicing those songs is mandatory if I want to play pieces like "The Turkish March", I guess.


I see no harm in playing around with the easy parts of a piece of music you enjoy! Just be careful, right now, not to put to much time into really "learning" something that is a bit far beyond your current level, as you might develop bad habits and it becomes harder to learn it later on when you are prepared.

Here's some inspiration to keep you going: smile
_________________________

Algernon: I hope, Cecily, I shall not offend you if I state quite frankly and openly that you seem to me to be in every way the visible personification of absolute perfection.

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#2024277 - 01/30/13 08:47 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Derulux]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19231
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Derulux

....It will take you far too long to complete, and worse, when you get there, you still won't be able to do it. You have to train and build up to a marathon. Then, when you're finally ready, you can run one, finish it in an appropriate time--and more importantly--repeat the results.
As long as the OP realizes it may take a long time or that parts of the piece may not even be possible right now, I think it's really up to him how long he is willing to spend on this piece. If someone is very interested in a piece this can be the most important consideration for them even if the piece isn't the best pedagogical choice.

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#2024336 - 01/30/13 11:16 PM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: pianoloverus]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5286
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Derulux

....It will take you far too long to complete, and worse, when you get there, you still won't be able to do it. You have to train and build up to a marathon. Then, when you're finally ready, you can run one, finish it in an appropriate time--and more importantly--repeat the results.
As long as the OP realizes it may take a long time or that parts of the piece may not even be possible right now, I think it's really up to him how long he is willing to spend on this piece. If someone is very interested in a piece this can be the most important consideration for them even if the piece isn't the best pedagogical choice.

Absolutely. I hope there would exist more than one piece for the student to choose from, and that one of them is closer to the student's level, but you'll get no argument from me on this one. Student enthusiasm is one of the single most important considerations.
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2024362 - 01/31/13 12:00 AM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3524
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
There are numerous simple arrangements of the Turkish March available for free online. Perhaps you should try some of them. It may be the perfect compromise for now.

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#2024395 - 01/31/13 01:58 AM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Hi Dief (just joking),

As architect I was fascinated by the layout of the fortress city of Bergen op Zoom ... with it’s surrounding waterways (even supporting boats) ... and those charming little (on paper) links from inside to the surrounding agricultural fields ... it would be
interesting to hear from you where exactly your home is in Bergen op Zoom ... looking at the marvellous Grand Market Place with it’s cane chairs, makes me envious of sharing a cup of coffee ... but I’m sure the present
icy weather dims the prospect ... perhaps better in June.

Just a side thought, having lived most of my life in Cape Town, known as the Mother City, where the Dutchman Jan van Riebeeck first landed on 6 April, 1652. .
His three ships were called the Drommedaris, Reijger, and Goede Hoop ... Van Riebeeck had been ordered to build a fort for future arrivals from Holland ...
The wooden fort was replaced in 1666 with the present stone faced one,four years after van Riebeeck had returned to Amsterdam.

The five points of the Cape town Castle are called
Leerdam, Buuren, Katzenellenbogen, Nassau and Oranje.
In days of my youth we had a Public Holiday on April 6 commemorating the arrival of Jan van Riebeeck.

But then the Dutch like to “muck around in boats”.

Sorry chaps about the history lesson.

I'm with bennevis on the Mozart K.545 suggestion ...
sheer magic.

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#2028585 - 02/07/13 07:52 AM Re: Question about Mozart's Turkish March [Re: Mr_LongFingers]
Mr_LongFingers Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 8
Loc: The Netherlands, Bergen op Zoo...
Hi guys,

We're about a week further and I have to say that I've changed my routine completely.
It was just so frustating to sit behind the piano and not produce anything decent sounding. On the rare occassion that I actually hit the right notes at the right time, it still didn't sound right to me. I've been playing fingerstyle guitar for a few years now and my ears got quite sensitive to that sort of thing. I was missing the emotion in my piano playing, I couldn't play the notes the way I wanted to play them.

I then realized that whatever I was doing, was just plain stupid. If, for example, I wanted to learn to read Russian, I wouldn't start with Dostoyevsky. You have to start with the basics. Besides, how silly would it be if I could play "The Turkish March", but have trouble with sightreading "Brother John"?

Right now I'm focussing on Alfred's book, and doing all of the exercises very thoroughly. Currently I'm on page 68, with the "Beautiful Brown Eyes" song. I'm also practicing simplified pieces like "Ode to Joy" and "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik". It's a bit weird going from "The Turkish March" to "The Wheels on the Bus", but at least I'm having fun again. I'm happy I took a few steps back.

@btb

It's so nice to hear a little history of my home town! I'm actually surprised that there are people that have heard of this town.
I live in the south of Bergen op Zoom, in an area called "Bergse Plaat".

There sure is some beauty to find in this city. Drinking coffee or some beers with my friends on the Grand Market, is just really lovely. Especially in the summertime.

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