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#2021919 - 01/26/13 11:52 PM Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument!
KataiYubi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/20/13
Posts: 32
Hi,

Not often discussed in this forum, the Yamaha Electone Stagea has stunning capabilities when in the hands of a capable instrumentist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKorq7dE4gM

A few thoughts:

A) I don't know if other people here are seduced, but I would ***love*** to have one of these. However, Yamaha does not sell this marvelous instrument in North America and Europe. I believe that situation may change if enough people express interest, which is the main reason why I am posting this: if you'd like one, make your voice heard.

B) Some people around the world have personally imported such instruments to their home countries:

http://www.mikesmusicroom.co.uk/mikes-music-articles/3

The process is very expensive and good luck for the guarantee!

------
I personally contacted Yamaha Canada and they said that there's no market for that keyboard (which is doubtful), and that it has not been CSA-approved (it constitutes a fire hazard when plugged in North American sockets - apparently because the Japanese 15 A/100 V grounded is incompatible with North American 20 A/125 V grounded) - but since Yamaha sells other keyboards, they must know how to adapt an instrument to a foreign electrical standard, so the excuse sounds phony.

So... who would like to have one in their living room?

----------
Butchering great piano music since 41 years
Lesage upright with thumb tacks
Dreaming electronic dreams

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#2021924 - 01/27/13 12:13 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: KataiYubi]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3675
Loc: North Carolina
That guy in the UK paid the equivalent of about $10,000 for the unit. At that price the market will be very limited.

Apparently he has deep pockets! In addition the price of the unit he paid $2000 for shipping, plus the usual government thievery fee tax.

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#2021929 - 01/27/13 12:24 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: MacMacMac]
KataiYubi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/20/13
Posts: 32
Well, some people here have bought N2s, which are even more expensive than that.

I'd rather be worried about getting it repaired if it ever broke down.

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#2021941 - 01/27/13 01:25 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: KataiYubi]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1706
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Why would you bother ? you could buy a C2D and a full workstation plus a real B3 for the same money.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2021946 - 01/27/13 01:39 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: Dr Popper]
Tyruke Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 52
Loc: Anaheim, California, USA
I know Roland has their Atelier organs. I believe they could accomplish the same thing, no?

I believe they must be sold in North America at leas as the Roland US website has them advertised.

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#2021953 - 01/27/13 01:59 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: Tyruke]
KataiYubi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/20/13
Posts: 32
Hi,

No, judging from the performances I've tracked on Youtube and elsewhere, Atelier/Wersi keyboards do not even come close to the Stagea. They sound very much like Hammonds from the 1970's. I would never buy a thing like this.

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#2021956 - 01/27/13 02:03 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: KataiYubi]
BillTheSlink Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/12
Posts: 108
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I think they're right that this would have very limited appeal. Obviously this is something that few people would have the talent to play and the description mentioned a lot of programing. As fast as piano players are disappearing organ player are going faster. Personally learning piano is a means to an end for me as I eventually want to play organ, but I have no delusions I would ever need (or want) this as I want something that sounds like an organ and not a symphony. A person who would have the talent to play a symphony piece on a keyboard would be rare indeed.
_________________________
Currently I am without a piano, but when I get mine back I will be working on "The Complete Piano Player", as well as Neely's "How to Play from a Fake Book. I am spending my time working on theory and learning how to construct chords currently.


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#2021958 - 01/27/13 02:05 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: Dr Popper]
KataiYubi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/20/13
Posts: 32
Hi,

Hmm... You want me Close 2 Death (C2D) from too much vitamin B3? Unless you explain what you mean better, I'm not going to benefit from your wisdom. Unless of course you mean to acquire a f63FG to plug into my K37 with a yd6 transducer, right?

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#2021963 - 01/27/13 02:23 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: BillTheSlink]
KataiYubi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/20/13
Posts: 32
Originally Posted By: BillTheSlink
I think they're right that this would have very limited appeal. Obviously this is something that few people would have the talent to play and the description mentioned a lot of programing.


Or is there? 300+ million people in North America, 700+ in Europe - mostly rich/industrialized countries and they think they don't have a market for an instrument that is so popular in Japan that you need to wait a few months to get one?

Among the great music I butchered in my amateur butcher career are many transcriptions of orchestral pieces. For instance Beethoven's symphonies, various operas, ballets, reductions of piano concerti, etc. If you go to your local sheet music store, you'll see a big section of piano transcriptions.

Pianists play and enjoy transcriptions of orchestral works since centuries, and as a matter of fact, before the era of widely available recordings, piano reductions were the main means of popularization of orchestral music and opera.

That said, I understand your comment, since you are a beginner. But I predict that in a few short years, you will also enjoy transcriptions of orchestral works to play at your piano. And you'll probably resent the fact that such a brilliant instrument is not available here because... they think we don't want it...


Edited by KataiYubi (01/29/13 01:24 PM)

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#2021969 - 01/27/13 02:53 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: KataiYubi]
Tyruke Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 52
Loc: Anaheim, California, USA
Originally Posted By: KataiYubi
Hi,

No, judging from the performances I've tracked on Youtube and elsewhere, Atelier/Wersi keyboards do not even come close to the Stagea. They sound very much like Hammonds from the 1970's. I would never buy a thing like this.



Are you sure? I remember at a NAMM show a couple years back they were demoing them and they sounded pretty good to me.

And this is the demo video Roland have on their website now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE42t8-TYdc

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#2021970 - 01/27/13 02:57 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: KataiYubi]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1706
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: KataiYubi
Hi,

Hmm... You want me Close 2 Death (C2D) from too much vitamin B3? Unless you explain what you mean better, I'm not going to benefit from your wisdom. Unless of course you mean to acquire a f63FG to plug into my K37 with a yd6 transducer, right?


It means nobody gives a ....
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2021979 - 01/27/13 03:23 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: Tyruke]
KataiYubi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/20/13
Posts: 32
Tyruke,

Thanks. I appreciate that video. However, if you watch closely, the player used his left hand to push a button to change a register. Moreover, despite the player's obvious transcendant skills, the sound coming out of the instrument is (subjectively) not up to par with that of the Stagea. It sounds dated, and unmistakingly organ-like in a bad sense.

Whereas when Qi Zhang was playing, registers were changed by the action of her feet and the flashing buttons you see between the keyboards are pre-programmed settings. Nothing complicated, she simply selected the combination of sounds she wanted at that point in the piece, and put it into memory. Which means that registers were switched sequentially just by pushing the pedal. It makes a big difference in the playing, as your hands are free to do whatever they do. And the sound on that beast! Amazing.

I've been playing Prokofiev piano reductions of his ballets for years, but frankly I am so jealous of them Electone players!


Edited by KataiYubi (01/27/13 03:27 AM)

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#2022315 - 01/27/13 06:06 PM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: KataiYubi]
TrumpetMan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 43
Loc: Essex, UK
I, too have only just discovered this instrument through finding it on Youtube.

It would appear that the last time they were produced (anywhere) was in 2006 - maybe there really isn't the demand, which is sad.

This is from the ELS-01C user manual I downloaded from here:

http://download.yamaha.com/search/produc...duct_id=1007721

"The Electone has two Footswitches on the main expression pedal. The Right
Footswitch is used for the Registration Shift function. The Left Footswitch can be set
to control one of the following functions: Rhythm, Glide, and Rotary speaker."

In the video you linked to (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKorq7dE4gM), you can clearly see her changing registration programs with her right foot between 6:40 and 7:05.

I appreciate that this instrument is very cleverly designed, but could the same not be achieved with a dual-manual keyboard, midi pedals and a USB link to a laptop to store all the programs? You'd also need a modified volume pedal with the two switches at the sides. (And another expression pedal).

She is an amazing performer - just playing the notes would stretch most keyboardists, let alone doing all the program changes (there must be several hundred in this performance).

I think a lot of the skill of playing the Stagea is to do with the programming, which you'd have to do before you could start practising it.

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#2022351 - 01/27/13 07:09 PM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: KataiYubi]
Nigeth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 104
Originally Posted By: KataiYubi
Hi,

Hmm... You want me Close 2 Death (C2D) from too much vitamin B3? Unless you explain what you mean better, I'm not going to benefit from your wisdom. Unless of course you mean to acquire a f63FG to plug into my K37 with a yd6 transducer, right?


He's talking about the Hammond B3 tonewheel organ and probably its best emulation on the market today the Nord C2D.

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#2022538 - 01/28/13 12:21 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: KataiYubi]
ClsscLib Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1604
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Okay, that's pretty cool...
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2022539 - 01/28/13 12:24 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: KataiYubi]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8427
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Indeed...it's very cool.

By the way, happy birthday ClsscLib!

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2022568 - 01/28/13 01:55 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: KataiYubi]
erjamo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 7
Loc: Banned
I'd rather be worried about getting it repaired if it ever broke down.

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#2022687 - 01/28/13 08:21 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: Kawai James]
ClsscLib Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1604
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Indeed...it's very cool.

By the way, happy birthday ClsscLib!

James
x


Thanks, James. I hope all goes well for you.
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2022721 - 01/28/13 09:33 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: KataiYubi]
ClsscLib Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1604
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Reminds me of Jack Nicholson (as the Joker in the 1989 Batman movie) saying, "Where does he get all those wonderful toys?":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5DuIiBNl4g
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2022729 - 01/28/13 09:53 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: KataiYubi]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: KataiYubi

I personally contacted Yamaha Canada and they said that there's no market for that keyboard (which is doubtful), and that it has not been CSA-approved (it constitutes a fire hazard when plugged in North American sockets - apparently because the Japanese 15 A/100 V grounded is incompatible with North American 20 A/125 V grounded) - but since Yamaha sells other keyboards, they must know how to adapt an instrument to a foreign electrical standard, so the excuse sounds phony.


Without CSA approval, fire insurance is invalidated. Even in the fire is not caused by the non-CSA approved device, my understanding is that the insurance claim will be voided.

No company operating in Canada will sell or import any electronic device without CSA approval. Neither will any company seek CSA approval if projected sales will be low. In order to get CSA approval the unit provided for testing is totally dismantled, and I suspect ruined.
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#2022798 - 01/28/13 11:58 AM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: KataiYubi]
kiedysktos. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 424
Loc: Europe, Poland
I think people who are so close to classical that they could play such big orchestral compositions are also people who appreciate all subtleties and deepness of real orchestra. So most of them don't even consider playing such performances since for them it's like a profanation. It is for me - her skills are awesome, but I would never pay for a concert to listen to classical played on a keyboard.
_________________________
Roland FP-4

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#2022800 - 01/28/13 12:03 PM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: KataiYubi]
TrumpetMan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 43
Loc: Essex, UK
Originally Posted By: kiedysktos.
I would never pay for a concert to listen to classical played on a keyboard.


I agree - neither would I, but there must be a huge sense of achievement to learn some of those arrangements and enjoy playing them for your own pleasure.

I wonder how many people on these boards play professionally and how many are amateur enthusiasts?

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#2022816 - 01/28/13 12:35 PM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: TrumpetMan]
bennevis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4420
Originally Posted By: TrumpetMan
Originally Posted By: kiedysktos.
I would never pay for a concert to listen to classical played on a keyboard.


I agree - neither would I, but there must be a huge sense of achievement to learn some of those arrangements and enjoy playing them for your own pleasure.



Why would a great pianist want to play an orchestral work on an organ-like electronic contraption when it's possible to recreate the colors of the orchestra with just 10 fingers on a standard piano?

Here's an example of a master pianist at work: Mikhail Pletnev playing his own transcription of The Nutcracker http://youtu.be/trl9T4sbV_c.

Also, have a look at this Adagio from The Sleeping Beauty http://youtu.be/eSQVh3yVfJ4

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#2022817 - 01/28/13 12:40 PM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: KataiYubi]
toddy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1321
Loc: Portugal
There is a tradition of this kind of performance through the non-church organ. In fact all organs are a 'band in a box' to a certain extent. You only have to look at church organ's stops to see that. Before electronic synths, organs with their flute, trumpet and viol stops went a long way to giving one performer the power to recreate a whole orchestral piece. But of course it didn't sound much like the instruments it was imitating

It is a very impressive performance that Qi Zhang gives, but I wonder what the point of it is, really. You always seem to get that shiny ice-rink type sheen to the sound and it has none of the subtlety of a real orchestral performance, as KataiYubi has pointed out.

Where the organ really comes into its own is as an instrument in its own right - either as pipe organ or Hammond B3. Same with the synthesiser, really.

....but maybe such an instrument as the Yamaha above would be great for improvisation or - who knows - even compositional ideas....
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2022841 - 01/28/13 01:19 PM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: TrumpetMan]
KataiYubi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/20/13
Posts: 32
Originally Posted By: TrumpetMan
I, too have only just discovered this instrument through finding it on Youtube.

It would appear that the last time they were produced (anywhere) was in 2006 - maybe there really isn't the demand, which is sad.


Not so, TrumpetMan; check the Yamaha website:

http://asia.yamaha.com/en/products/musical-instruments/keyboards/electone/

The stagea is ***currently*** available in Asia / Middle East / Africa / Oceania / Latin America.

What's wrong with this picture? If I move to Timbuktu or Baghdad, I can buy a Stagea, no problem. But sorry, I live in Montreal, Canada and so I can't get one.

Thanks btw for the Pletnev videos of his Nutcracker transcriptions. There's a cheap version by Esipoff and Deis (Schirmer) that I "play" (massacre would be a better word), but I would love massacreing it on a Stagea. Imagine how fun it may be to play "The Planets" by Holst on the Stagea with the drum effects, instead of on just a flat standard piano.


Edited by KataiYubi (01/29/13 01:24 PM)

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#2022847 - 01/28/13 01:36 PM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: Melodialworks Music]
KataiYubi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/20/13
Posts: 32
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music

Without CSA approval, fire insurance is invalidated. Even in the fire is not caused by the non-CSA approved device, my understanding is that the insurance claim will be voided.


Melodialworks, I don't doubt this is indeed the case. However, if Yamaha sells the Stagea in other regions of the world (everywhere except North America and Europe), it means that they are quite capable of adapting their instruments to meet the local electrical standards.

May I remind you the Yamaha also sells other expensive electrical appliances in North America and Europe (digital pianos) and that the very expensive Avant Grand N3 is CSA-approved?


Edited by KataiYubi (01/29/13 01:14 PM)

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#2023013 - 01/28/13 06:39 PM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: bennevis]
kiedysktos. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 424
Loc: Europe, Poland
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: TrumpetMan
Originally Posted By: kiedysktos.
I would never pay for a concert to listen to classical played on a keyboard.


I agree - neither would I, but there must be a huge sense of achievement to learn some of those arrangements and enjoy playing them for your own pleasure.



Why would a great pianist want to play an orchestral work on an organ-like electronic contraption


Kitsch, this was the word I was looking for smile
_________________________
Roland FP-4

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#2023025 - 01/28/13 07:18 PM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: KataiYubi]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: KataiYubi


Melodialworks, I don't doubt this is indeed the case. However, if Yamaha sells the Stagea in other regions of the world (everywhere except North America and Europe), it means that they are quite capable of adapting their instruments to meet the local electrical standards.

May I remind you the Yamaha also sells other expensive electrical appliances in North America and Europe (digital pianos) and that the very expensive Avant Grand N3 is CSA-approved?

So the problem is elsewhere. For some unknown reason, Yamaha ***does not want*** to sell here.


The reason is not unknown. You stated it in your original post, that Yamaha Canada said that "there's no market for that keyboard".

There is the reason. In THEIR opinion, not a worthwhile item to import. I've read of various Kawai models not being available in all markets, so this is just another example. Yamaha is not small, like Kawai, but the market in Canada is small. In my opinion, the demand in Canada for this type of instrument, given the price, would be very low.
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#2023033 - 01/28/13 07:40 PM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: KataiYubi]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
If it is not available in your country then why don't buy from the piano from a Japanese site and have it shipped to you?
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-150


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#2023433 - 01/29/13 12:46 PM Re: Let's get together and demand this stunning instrument! [Re: Melodialworks Music]
KataiYubi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/20/13
Posts: 32
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music


The reason is not unknown. You stated it in your original post, that Yamaha Canada said that "there's no market for that keyboard".


You're right. It is totally their privilege if they think that Mali, Laos, Bhutan and Bolivia (all countries in which the Electone Stagea is currently on sale) represent a better market than the UK, the US, Germany, France, Canada, etc (all countries in which the policy is "No Electone for you!")


Edited by KataiYubi (01/29/13 01:15 PM)

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