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Hello everyone! I just had a technician do an evaluation of a 1997 Baldwin SF10. He said the only major concern he observed was a continuous crack along the bridge pins in the high upper treble region of the piano. If the cracks were separate he said this could be repaired with CA glue. However, the crack runs the entire length of several pins and has caused the pins to shift in their place. He said I would likely have to have the treble strings removed, the bridge glued and clamped, the holes redrilled and pins reset and glued in place. The owners want $28,000 and the piano is on consignment with a dealer. Is this a major issue that should cause me to pass on this piano? Thanks everyone, Craig
Craig 2010 Young Chang YP-208 (Church) Rebuilt 1919 6'2" Conover 88 (Home)
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The owners want $28,000 and the piano is on consignment with a dealer. Is this a major issue that should cause me to pass on this piano? Thanks everyone, Craig
Yes.
Semipro Tech
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I think that price is on the high side for a perfect model, and much too high for one with a bad bridge. For that price, the sellers should replace the bridge, and you shouldn't spend that much money on a compromised piano.
Take care,
Steve
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Yes...pass on this one. Even if the bridge were repaired, there's no guarantee the bridge won't split elsewhere. In fact, based on my experience with the SF10 of that same vintage, I can almost guarantee the bridge WILL split in other places...and if you inspect the bridges with a magnifying glass, you may find that is already the case.
Eric Gloo Piano Technician Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer Richfield Springs, New York
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YES! This is a serious issue.
I have seen several SF-10's and SD-10's with bridge cracking at the point in the scale where the back bridge pins of a unison are roughly parallel with the front pins of the next unison below in the scale.
Fortunately if your pinblock is good-and the tuning pins are tight-the plate and pinblock probably can be removed as a unit after removing strings and unbolting the plate. (A Steinway or Mason would require removing tuning pins from the block to remove the plate which would mean either replace the block to keep the more tunable 2/0 tuning pin-or install larger 3/0 or 4/0 tuning pins to have adequate tightness.) More money!
This will then let a rebuilder re-cap all the bridges with quarter-sawn, hard-rock maple. New strings can be installed on the existing tuning pins and the plate can even be refinished if you put cut off drinking straws on the tuning pins to mask them. If the work is done by a skilled rebuilder who resets the bridge pin pattern slightly the conflicting front and back bridge pin issue can be resolved.
You should also check to make sure the soundboard to case glue joint is properly fit and secure. I have seen several of these pianos with the board coming unglued from the rim. If you watch a video if the Baldwin soundboard installation you will see that only one person is placing the clamps on while gluing the board in with hot hide glue. Working time for that should be 5 minutes or less-one person clamping a board in takes at least 20 minutes.
These Baldwins have hard string termination elements in the capo bar section and this does lead to more rapid string fatigue with use and makes the treble tone a little on the brittle side when voiced up.
If I were to do this job I would suggest re-configuring the capo to use upside down brass agraffes in the capo bar. This will increase the warmth and beauty of the treble tone when combined with optimal shaping of the hammers to reduce their mass.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
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Do the owners want $28,000? If so, the dealer will be asking for that much plus a 30% consignment fee. If the dealer is asking 28, the actual price is in the low 20s.
JG
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The price, although high, does not matter. It has a deal-breaking fault at any price.
You should be able to find a comparable piano without the fault. Then you can worry about the price. You can find them for less.
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A very common issue with this Baldwin model from that era. CA glue is not the answer. Keep looking.
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As others have said, this is a serious issue, and not uncommon with Baldwin.... $28,000 is an outrageous asking price. One of the dealers in my area is trying to sell a never sold 2008 SF-10 for $29,000. With that in mind, I'd maybe offer $10,000 for the one you're looking at. At that price, even with bridge replacement and restringing, it would likely be an acceptable deal. If that isn't in the cards, for whatever reason, keep looking!
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No, $10,000 is not a good price for this piano, not even for someone who is capable of repairing it, let alone an end user.
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No, $10,000 is not a good price for this piano, not even for someone who is capable of repairing it, let alone an end user. I'm curious as to why you think that and what you think an appropriate price would be. It's a 15ish year old Baldwin SF-10, a high quality instrument, with no other known problems. Recapping the bridge and restringing is not an insurmountable problem. If there are no other issues, I don't see how my suggestion is an unreasonable retail price.
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How do you reconfigure the capo bar to use upside down agraffes? I've never heard of this
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Hello Eric!
You fabricate from mild steel a mounting piece that bolts to the plate and capo where those stupid string destroyer and L-mode enhancing "terminater" thingys are bolted in and tap the new piece for agraffes. Of course all the X, Y, and Z co-ordinates must be properly placed.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
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The agraffes are normally cut through so as to leave a base with three half-holes in which to seat the strings. These partial agraffes are upside down, threaded into the capo bar.
1. Before destringing, mark the location of the center string of the existing high treble unisons. (A go-no-go template could work, also.) 2. Disassemble and take out the harp/plate.
With plate flipped over...
3. Examine the existing termination bars and compare their height with the height of the altered agraffes. 4. Grind the capo and/or do counter bores for the agraffes. Drill the thread holes and tap the holes per the premarked alignments from step 1. 5. Fit the agraffes for proper alignment and shim/ream as required to correct alignment problems.
OR... If dimensions don't work out, see post before this one.
Sounds straight forward, but it ain't.
Last edited by RestorerPhil; 01/29/13 11:06 PM.
Lavender Piano Services Established 1977 Tuning, Concert Maintenance, Rebuilding & Restoration
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No, $10,000 is not a good price for this piano, not even for someone who is capable of repairing it, let alone an end user. I'm curious as to why you think that and what you think an appropriate price would be. It's a 15ish year old Baldwin SF-10, a high quality instrument, with no other known problems. Recapping the bridge and restringing is not an insurmountable problem. If there are no other issues, I don't see how my suggestion is an unreasonable retail price. Right. A bridge isn't that big of a deal and with proper technical work, this is one of the top 7' pianos in the world.
Keith Akins, RPT Piano Technologist USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
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But you can get them for about $10,000 plus what it would cost for a good repair. There is not a lot of room left for profit for someone who wants to flip it, and there is way too much risk for someone who wants a piano to use.
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Ok, so lets say hypothetically that the owners were to come out of la la land with their $28000 asking price knowing that this instrument has problems. What would it cost to permanently fix the problem? And, if I am going to have the treble bridge replaced I would prefer to have them all replaced. In that case, what ball park figure should I attach to the job of replacing all the bridges in this instrument? Just curious because the technician that inspected the piano said that otherwise it is in very good condition. I am assuming that as several have indicated if this problem were fixed correctly I would have a world class 7' instrument on my hands. The only reason I would pursue this is because I have a trade in allowance from my Young Chang YP208. Craig
Craig 2010 Young Chang YP-208 (Church) Rebuilt 1919 6'2" Conover 88 (Home)
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, and there is way too much risk for someone who wants a piano to use. Where's the risk? I know for 100% certainty I could repair it -- and I'm sure there are numerous others who could, as well.
Keith Akins, RPT Piano Technologist USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
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I am sure Baldwin claimed with equal certainty that they could build it properly.
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