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Topic Options
#2018223 - 01/21/13 08:32 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
woodog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 380
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
I get a flu shot every year. I love myself. I also love the people around me.

Not getting a flu shot would be most disrespectful of the people around me.

Forrest
_________________________
Graham Fitch's Piano Pedagogy Site
(A WORTHY RESOURCE!)

--------------------
current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque
Beethoven Op. 78
Bach WTC 1, C# Major (#3)

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#2018435 - 01/21/13 01:58 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Piano*Dad]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
I always shoot for November. I have done it in December on occasion, when inertia and other procrastination has gripped me.


Am I the first to get this? If intentional, good one!
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

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#2018540 - 01/21/13 06:02 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
KurtZ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 878
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
Yearly flu shots have been very effective for me in reducing frequency and severity of influenza. Before I started getting the shots I was getting hit hard most years and each year I seemed to get it worse than before. After the year I was almost hospitalized, my doctor suggested the shots even though at that time they were only being recommended for the elderly.
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

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#2018620 - 01/21/13 08:53 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: rocket88]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3546
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
I always shoot for November. I have done it in December on occasion, when inertia and other procrastination has gripped me.


Am I the first to get this? If intentional, good one!


Yeah, I got it!

To those who are nervous about the flu shot - get over it! Have the injection! The side effects of the flu shot are so much less than a bout of the flu. The flu can be deadly to you and those around you. Nobody has ever got the flu from the vaccine - it's an incomplete, dead virus. A few people have already had the real flu building in their system when they had the injection and then blamed the vaccine. This is just coincidence. I haven't had the flu in almost 20 years because of the flu vaccine - and I'm around sick people a lot and I'm diabetic so I have a higher susceptibility to catching the flu. It works, trust me.

The chances of getting the flu after having the vaccine are very low. Having the vaccine doesn't weaken your immune system. It actually stimulates it - the same way catching the real virus does, except without all the risk. I can't imagine teaching dozens of students and not having the flu vaccine - strong immune system or not. If you are lucky enough to have a good immune system, save it for everything else it will have to fight. Sooner or later everybody comes down with the flu, and you won't know when your immune system isn't as strong as it used to be. It's not worth the risk when you know how bad the flu can be and the shot is so simple. Don't be a hero. Get it for your own sake and for those around you.

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#2018935 - 01/22/13 10:51 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
I worked for 2 decades in public health. Flu shots were recommended for those at risk such as elderly, those with certain chronic disease, and health care workers. I found that recommendation to be reasonable. Those who are smokers or who live with a smoker are never mentioned. But these people will have a more difficult time recovering from a respiratory illness so may also want to consider getting a flu shot.

Now I see that flu shots are being recommended for everyone.

I see no science demonstrating increased effectiveness or lessened risk. IMO we are seeing effective marketing.

Risk may be as low as one in a million chance of serious side effect. Sounds like a small risk. But when 100 million doses are given each year, you may have 100 people with serious problems from it. If they were otherwise healthy adults, it was not a risk they needed to take IMO.


Edited by Ann in Kentucky (01/22/13 11:01 AM)
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

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#2018948 - 01/22/13 11:18 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
chasingrainbows Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1058
Loc: NJ
Ann, I am in agreement with everything you've said. The media is using every possible tactic to scare everyone of all ages into getting the flu shot--even going so far as to say that getting the flu can seriously impact your future health. Oh, seriously?

woodog, If people would STAY HOME when sick, sneeze and cough into their sleeves, and be respectfuly of those around them, the flu would not be so widespread.

Ando, I'm not tyring to be a hero, I follow alternative medicine, and very healthy eating habits, as well as a daily exercise regime, and am not ready to jump on the bandwagon and get a flu shot yet. I've had H1N1, and it was very rough, however, I also suffered extreme incapacitating vertigo for almost a full year as the result of medication. Nothing I've ever had was a debilitating as that, or scary. I couldn't even use my electric toothbrush, I walked as if I were drunk most of the time, and that was on a good day.

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#2019066 - 01/22/13 01:48 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
woodog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 380
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Originally Posted By: chasingrainbows

woodog, If people would STAY HOME when sick, sneeze and cough into their sleeves, and be respectfuly of those around them, the flu would not be so widespread.




If students would practice slowly..

If drivers would ignore their cell phones..

If teens wouldn't smoke..

if, if if...

The plural of anecdote is not data, and the science is well settled on the flu shot. It is a good public health measure.

I still say that if you care about the people around you, you should get a flu shot.

but hey, I'm just one guy with a keyboard, an opinion and an internet connection.

So, ya know, take that for what it's worth. :-)

Forrest
_________________________
Graham Fitch's Piano Pedagogy Site
(A WORTHY RESOURCE!)

--------------------
current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque
Beethoven Op. 78
Bach WTC 1, C# Major (#3)

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#2019094 - 01/22/13 02:52 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3546
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky


Risk may be as low as one in a million chance of serious side effect. Sounds like a small risk. But when 100 million doses are given each year, you may have 100 people with serious problems from it. If they were otherwise healthy adults, it was not a risk they needed to take IMO.


If you failed to dispense those 100 million doses, there would be a lot more than 100 seriously ill people. Mortality rates for flu can be very high, and just having the flu can knock the stuffing out of your for several weeks or more. typical adverse reactions to the vaccine are very mild by comparison. The whole point is that the risk of the vaccine is much lower than the risk of the flu.

Dismissing it as a marketing scam sound like a conspiracy theory and is missing the point of just how important the flu vaccine has been. For the immuno-compromised people in society, and that includes me as a 20 year type 1 diabetic, it's a life saver. You wouldn't believe how bad the flu is for a diabetic. I haven't had the flu since getting flu vaccinations - prior to that I'd had it every other year. There have been some particularly nasty strains of the flu in recent years and that's what's driving the recommendation to get vaccinated. It's being recommended by health professionals across the board - they aren't all participating in a drug company profit-drive.

Of course, there are no guarantees with the fluvax. It doesn't always stop your catching the flu, but it's a measure I think a good many people should seriously consider. Teachers have the potential to spread the flu to a lot of people.

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#2019123 - 01/22/13 03:38 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: woodog]
chasingrainbows Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 1058
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: woodog
I get a flu shot every year. I love myself. I also love the people around me.

Not getting a flu shot would be most disrespectful of the people around me.

Forrest


only if they didn't get the flu shot. I asked many of my students and parents and was surprised how many said they weren't getting the flu shot.

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#2019134 - 01/22/13 03:50 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
zapper Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/13
Posts: 77
oh gush, flu shots - one of the biggest and dangerous scams recently. It's really tragic how naive people are...

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#2019142 - 01/22/13 03:59 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: rocket88]
KurtZ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 878
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
I always shoot for November. I have done it in December on occasion, when inertia and other procrastination has gripped me.


Am I the first to get this? If intentional, good one!


I only got this because spanish for flu is gripe (gree-pay)
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

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#2019154 - 01/22/13 04:26 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: zapper]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5919
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: zapper
oh gush, flu shots - one of the biggest and dangerous scams recently. It's really tragic how naive people are...
No - what's really tragic is someone dying from a preventable disease.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#2019218 - 01/22/13 06:32 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
KurtZ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 878
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
Diptheria
Polio
Whooping Cough
Tuberculosis

All scams. Probably Truman's fault. I could never trust a president who wore lenses. It's just not manly.

Kurt
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

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#2019333 - 01/22/13 09:48 PM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3187
Loc: Virginia, USA
If you don't want to get the flu shot,

and,

you don't want to catch the flu from one of your students,

I have the answer!

Their tuition is reduced by the cost of one lesson by showing you their flu shot certificate.
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#2019424 - 01/23/13 01:24 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: zapper]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3546
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: zapper
oh gush, flu shots - one of the biggest and dangerous scams recently. It's really tragic how naive people are...


Yeah sure, it's a scam... crazy I bet you see scams everywhere you look.

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#2019468 - 01/23/13 06:02 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Here is one possible reason the flu shot is being promoted for everyone.

http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html

This shows that the national vaccine injury compensation program is funded by sales of vaccine. A 75 cents per dose tax goes to the fund. 100 million flu vaccines given per year adds 75 million to the program.

You will not hear interviews about vaccine injuries by Oprah because part of the process of being reimbursed for injury involves a legal agreement not to talk about it.

Here's a report of problems from Sweden. But you won't hear this sort of thing in the US. http://health.yahoo.net/news/s/nm/insight-evidence-grows-for-narcolepsy-link-to-gsk-swine-flu-shot


Edited by Ann in Kentucky (01/23/13 06:20 AM)
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

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#2019483 - 01/23/13 07:27 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
I currently work in healthcare. Every employee and volunteer is required to have the flu shot. It's mandatory. It's that important. Those who refuse (or are in some way unable) to take the shot are required to wear a mask at all times while at work for the protection of themselves and others or they don't work there anymore. Personally, I regard the mask as a bit of overkill, perhaps even punishment for not getting with the program, but I do recommend the flu shot. Unless you have some serious allergy that prevents you from taking the shot, it's a no brainer. Those who have the luxury of to cook up conspiratory theories and those gullible enough to believe them, are coasting along on herd immunity. People die of the flu every day. My grandfather's entire immediate family was wiped out by the 1918 epidemic. He was "lucky" enough to be still overseas with the army in France at the time. It's not just a bad cold or a tummy bug. It kills.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#2019492 - 01/23/13 07:56 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Did you notice how the flu epidemic of 1918 was not repeated the following year? Or even in the next 95 years. And without the intervention of modern medicine. Hmm.

I wonder what changed. I wonder if improvements in nutrition and sanitary conditions made the difference.




Edited by Ann in Kentucky (01/23/13 07:56 AM)
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2019495 - 01/23/13 08:03 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
Just be glad you've been have the luxury to entertain all your skepticism, Ann. It's because of modern medicine (and there's been a ton of intervention)and that "suspect" vaccine. The 1918 epidemic wasn't repeated because the virus mutated to a less lethal strain. There have been other pandemics as widespread but not nearly as lethal because of the intervention of modern medicine and the rest of us are doing our part.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#2019497 - 01/23/13 08:09 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
I am here today because of modern medicine. Otherwise I would have been one of those who died in childbirth. My hat is off to modern medicine in general.

I also like to have full information. And I see issues around vaccines to be shrouded in the don't ask don't tell mentality.
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2019500 - 01/23/13 08:17 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: -Frycek]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: -Frycek
The 1918 epidemic wasn't repeated because the virus mutated to a less lethal strain.


Thank you for admitting that vaccines were not the answer to this one.

I would look at the conditions around the epidemic...conditions in WWI camps...malnourished, overcrowded young men with birds and pigs kept nearby. Then travelling and spreading the disease.

You can also approach this from the point of preventing the conditions that lead to this disaster.


Edited by Ann in Kentucky (01/23/13 08:19 AM)
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2019504 - 01/23/13 08:30 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17770
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
This probably only muddies the waters, but The Ethicist column in the New York Times tackled just yesterday the question of whether one should get a flu shot:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/magazine/must-i-get-a-flu-shot.html?_r=0

The bottom line was that people should get the shot but were not ethically obligated to. I'm not sure I entirely agree with him on this, at least when it comes to childhood vaccines for life-threatening diseases. It's one thing to say that you don't want the pain and inconvenience and very small risk of complications for yourself, but when that decision endangers other children, the issue becomes more complex.

Put me in the camp that, yes, everybody who is eligible should get the flu vaccine (and other vaccines). Vaccines have saved millions of lives throughout history. There will be some small number of complications (and that number is very, very small with the fluvax), but the greater social benefit is enormous and indisputable.

Smallpox killed more people throughout the history of humankind than all our wars combined, and it's eradicated now only because of vaccines. That's pretty compelling to me.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#2019508 - 01/23/13 08:36 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
I didn't admit anything. The vaccine is a preventative, not a cure. There is no cure. There are palliatives they may shorten the course but the body ultimately has to ride it out. Yes, of course better nutrition helps the body withstand the disease by making it healthier, which is why it is usually the elderly, the chronically ill, and young children who are most likely to perish. Better hygiene is a two edged weapon in that it can help prevent the spread of water borne diseases such as cholera (which the flu is not) but too much of it tends to weaken the immune system. Toxic shock syndrome is the result of too much cleanliness and part of the rise in the incidence of asthma may be from the same cause. The best preventative we have now is that vaccine (or those vaccines as they have to be tailored each year to what strains are believed to be prevalent). Some years the vaccine is more effective than others for this reason. Do you understand how herd immunity works? It works be creating a "herd" of resistent individuals so that the virus tries to infect a lot of "dead ends" and is it's ability to spread is limited. The vulnerable, the unvaccinated and those in which the vaccine did not "take" are protected by being part of this herd. The bigger the herd, the greater the protection.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#2019521 - 01/23/13 09:01 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Getting heated, eh?

There are arguments this way and that. Just because something is advisable for healthworkers or immuno-compromised people doesn't mean it's a good idea for everyone to have it.

Just imagine if we all got vaccines for everything (and our immune systems get out of practice for the real thing) and then something really lethal does come round.

Like I say, there are arguments this way and that. But for those who have said "I get the jab because it's the responsible thing to do" - do you think I'm irresponsible for not getting it?
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
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#2019527 - 01/23/13 09:07 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Maybe this thread could inspire a composer. The music could take the form of a 2 part invention. Or 3 part invention with a little voice creeping in to say that they see a link between certain childhood vaccinations and autism. And then a thunderous crash could completely drown out the little voice.


Edited by Ann in Kentucky (01/23/13 09:12 AM)
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2019533 - 01/23/13 09:19 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4414
Loc: San Jose, CA
"...If people would STAY HOME when sick, sneeze and cough into their sleeves..."

We also have something called a handkerchief. It is more sanitary, and far less disgusting.

I suspect that those who believe our population enjoys better nutrition than those who lived in 1914-18, are living in a fool's paradise. The Surgeon General says that the data suggest otherwise--- today we have fatter people (look around) who are actually malnourished.

Monica has hit the snail on the head--- the "we don't vaccinate" crowd, who are depending on other 'more ignorant' people's children being vaccinated to prevent their own kids from coming down with diseases which can have deadly consequences, should just have their necks wrung and let's get it over with. They might do well to Google up the word 'polio'--- and it has plenty of company.

Many kids were killed outright by this disease, before the Salk and Sabin vaccines were developed. Others were paralyzed for life, or lost the use of one or more limbs. Some could only be kept alive by being in an 'iron lung,' a machine which breathed for them. Quite a life, eh?

Smallpox was benign by comparison; those who weren't killed were merely disfigured.

"Marketing," Ann--- really. If you work in public health and don't know any better than this, maybe some other career would be less destructive.
_________________________
Clef


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#2019562 - 01/23/13 10:02 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
This composition could be too boring if we just shout our viewpoints. Let's have a movement in which we are all required to switch sides.
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2019563 - 01/23/13 10:05 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Jeff Clef]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef


"Marketing," Ann--- really. If you work in public health and don't know any better than this, maybe some other career would be less destructive.


I've left. But while there, I towed the company line and kept my opinion to myself. And gave flu shots to those at risk since that was the recommendation at the time.
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

Top
#2019577 - 01/23/13 10:31 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1264
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
I am here today because of modern medicine. Otherwise I would have been one of those who died in childbirth. My hat is off to modern medicine in general.

I also like to have full information. And I see issues around vaccines to be shrouded in the don't ask don't tell mentality.


+1
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

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#2019589 - 01/23/13 11:06 AM Re: Flu shot or not? [Re: ten left thumbs]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21396
Loc: Oakland
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Getting heated, eh?

There are arguments this way and that. Just because something is advisable for healthworkers or immuno-compromised people doesn't mean it's a good idea for everyone to have it.

Just imagine if we all got vaccines for everything (and our immune systems get out of practice for the real thing) and then something really lethal does come round.

Like I say, there are arguments this way and that. But for those who have said "I get the jab because it's the responsible thing to do" - do you think I'm irresponsible for not getting it?


Immunization is not a substitute for the immune system. It works by stimulating it.

If you are a teacher, dealing with a lot of students, do you think you might become a vector? Will you feel responsibility for those who catch it from you? If you get sick, are you comfortable with the loss of income when you cannot teach? What do you think your responsibility is?
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Semipro Tech

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