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#2025213 - 02/01/13 10:46 AM Re: Help with student - upset over reading music [Re: CMS5]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
What a classic understatement by Jonathan Baker ...

“Most elementary piano students avoid actually reading the music and instead try to memorize instantly.”

The truth is WE ALL try to memorize ...
so as to avoid the agonizing slow sight-reading process.


This is no criticism ... just an observation of reality ... however, it is the snake-oil logic which makes me want to ..........

“The fingers may be far quicker and agile than the eyes.
And agile fingers can play faster than the ear can sometimes follow.”

Balderdash ... we are hamstrung by an antiquated notation system ... which fails to present the accurate graphic pitch and duration of notes ... and has bedevilled our sight-reading since the Middle Ages.Kind regards, btb

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#2025222 - 02/01/13 10:54 AM Re: Help with student - upset over reading music [Re: btb]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3172
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: btb
The truth is WE ALL try to memorize ...
so as to avoid the agonizing slow sight-reading process.

I don't. Reading is much easier than memorizing for me.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#2025230 - 02/01/13 11:08 AM Re: Help with student - upset over reading music [Re: CMS5]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
The chappie from Maine is obviously in a class of his own ...
how the heck can we believe you?

PS We've had this barney before ... however, the presumption in saying you can sight-read like a lord includes being able to
play a fresh piece of Chopin at the keyboard.

Well?

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#2025281 - 02/01/13 12:10 PM Re: Help with student - upset over reading music [Re: CMS5]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3172
Loc: Maine
Which chappie from Maine? (I'm not a guy.)

I'm not saying I sight-read like a lord (or lady). Reading is not the same as sight-reading. But I prefer to play with a score rather than without, and the score provides valuable information to me. For pieces within my level, I don't find even sight-reading to be agonizingly slow.

I've seen an example of your proposed alternate notation, and it requires making micro-judgments about differences in lengths and heights of lines with very few landmarks to help the process. That's not an improvement on the current system.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#2025468 - 02/01/13 05:18 PM Re: Help with student - upset over reading music [Re: btb]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5924
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: btb
...
how the heck can we believe you?

PS We've had this barney before ...
Yes, we have had this barney before, many times, from you. You'd probably do your cause more good if you didn't keep questioning the truthfulness of other posters when they talk of their reading ability.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#2025702 - 02/02/13 02:22 AM Re: Help with student - upset over reading music [Re: CMS5]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
The truth will out Aussie Bird,

The Chappess from Maine has come clean ... and likes to have the score on her lap while listening to the music ... and why not?

My apologies for for wanting to clobber Milady from Maine ... but whenever anybody tries to brag about their
sight-reading prowess, I go into Sherlock Holmes mode to
investigate the crime of exaggeration.

Originally Posted By: btb
The truth is WE ALL try to memorize ...
so as to avoid the agonizing slow sight-reading process.

The following looks a bit fishy.

"I don't. Reading is much easier than memorizing for me."

Sorry chaps ... I prefer a juicy steak to a piscine relish.

My aplogies if I bruised some tender soles.
Kind regards, btb

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#2025884 - 02/02/13 12:30 PM Re: Help with student - upset over reading music [Re: btb]
Jonathan Baker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/09/09
Posts: 300
Loc: New York City!
Originally Posted By: btb
My aplogies if I bruised some tender soles.


I am sure no one is bruised, but you generate more heat than light.

Best regards,

JB
_________________________
Jonathan Baker
http://www.BakerPianoLessons.com/index.htm

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#2025889 - 02/02/13 12:34 PM Re: Help with student - upset over reading music [Re: Jonathan Baker]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Jonathan Baker
Originally Posted By: btb
My aplogies if I bruised some tender soles.


I am sure no one is bruised, but you generate more heat than light.

Best regards,

JB


I disagree, the Springbok chappie is always a delight to read.


Edited by landorrano (02/02/13 12:35 PM)

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#2025891 - 02/02/13 12:36 PM Re: Help with student - upset over reading music [Re: landorrano]
Jonathan Baker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/09/09
Posts: 300
Loc: New York City!
Originally Posted By: landorrano
I disagree, the Springbok chappie is always a delight to read.



We agree to disagree.
_________________________
Jonathan Baker
http://www.BakerPianoLessons.com/index.htm

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#2026263 - 02/03/13 10:57 AM Re: Help with student - upset over reading music [Re: CMS5]
ROMagister Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/26/08
Posts: 518
Loc: Bucuresti, Romania
After reading SO MANY experience SO CLOSE to mine...

Is there a well-polished and tested method (book or at least set of procedures for teachers) for students Better-at-Ear whose natural inclination interferes with reading, generating frustration often up to quitting ?

I don't think the Better-at-Ear prospective students are that rare.

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#2026649 - 02/04/13 02:21 AM Re: Help with student - upset over reading music [Re: ROMagister]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5462
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: ROMagister
I don't think the Better-at-Ear prospective students are that rare.

They are not rare; however, this weakness in reading could have been prevented in the first place, with proper teaching and monitoring. I recently accepted a great transfer student who reads music fluently AND follows fingering accurately. It all depends on what the teacher chooses to focus on.

Strong reading skills can be developed and nurtured. It takes a lot of patience, vigilance, and dedication.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#2037183 - 02/21/13 07:50 PM Re: Help with student - upset over reading music [Re: Brinestone]
grandview Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 9
Originally Posted By: Brinestone
I'd give him some flash cards. At this point, the "normal" way of teaching notes isn't working because his aural memory is allowing him to cheat. You can't cheat flash cards. They're less fun, but maybe he'll just have to get down to the business of learning the notes for the sake of learning the notes.


Just a personal note on flash cards -- I use them for younger students and they work well. First I go through them and have the student name the notes, then I go through them and have the student play the note.

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#2037188 - 02/21/13 07:59 PM Re: Help with student - upset over reading music [Re: CMS5]
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1003
Loc: Irvine, CA
Just a add on to the flash card part only, sorry, no contribute about how to teach students who are upset with reading.
If you have ipad, try these two APPs:

http://flashnotederbyapp.com/ by Luke D. Bartolomeo

and

Piano Flash! Note naming app for iPad by Kristine Gore

Out of at least 20 APPs that I tried, I like these two the most.

Hope your students can have a little fun too when practicing on flash card.
_________________________
http://ezpiano.org
Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Watch the introduction video on YouTube
@ http://bit.ly/Ready123

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