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#2025684 - 02/02/13 01:12 AM Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I
MarkAW Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 24
When the arpeggios start, Mozart has a quarter followed by a triple four times in the measure.

I I-I-I I I-I-I I I-I-I I I-I-I


Edited by MarkAW (02/02/13 01:19 AM)

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#2025718 - 02/02/13 03:35 AM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: MarkAW]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19841
Loc: New York
Try to cut down a little on the weed. grin

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#2025728 - 02/02/13 04:16 AM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: Mark_C]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4892
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Try to cut down a little on the weed. grin


Shrink advice. wink

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#2025732 - 02/02/13 04:27 AM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: MarkAW]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4892
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: MarkAW
When the arpeggios start, Mozart has a quarter followed by a triple four times in the measure.

I I-I-I I I-I-I I I-I-I I I-I-I


...love this scene smile



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#2025746 - 02/02/13 06:30 AM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: JoelW]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5350
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: MarkAW
When the arpeggios start, Mozart has a quarter followed by a triple four times in the measure.

I I-I-I I I-I-I I I-I-I I I-I-I


...love this scene smile



That, and the scene where he forces the players to practice without music. Two of my favorite scenes.
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2025750 - 02/02/13 06:39 AM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: Derulux]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4892
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Derulux
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: MarkAW
When the arpeggios start, Mozart has a quarter followed by a triple four times in the measure.

I I-I-I I I-I-I I I-I-I I I-I-I


...love this scene smile



That, and the scene where he forces the players to practice without music. Two of my favorite scenes.


Heck, it's one of my all time favorite movies in general!

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#2025871 - 02/02/13 12:10 PM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: MarkAW]
MarkAW Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 24
Surprised that nobody answered my question.

Four quarters plus four triples is greater than one. Apparently one quarter plus a triple equals a quarter or something like that but doesn't anyone know the answer?

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#2025888 - 02/02/13 12:34 PM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: MarkAW]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3831
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: MarkAW
Surprised that nobody answered my question.

Four quarters plus four triples is greater than one. Apparently one quarter plus a triple equals a quarter or something like that but doesn't anyone know the answer?


That's just because your "I I-I-I" notation was distracting. smile

The measure you're asking about (m.18) is in two voices; in this case, one in each hand. For each separate voice, the note values add up to 4/4.

It's actually the exact same thing that happens in the first measure of the piece. There are a total of 8 eighth notes, a half note, and 2 quarters. But that's combining the notes from two separate voices.
_________________________
Schubert: Bb Impromptu D.935/3; Mozart: D minor concerto; Chopin: first Ballade

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#2025893 - 02/02/13 12:37 PM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: MarkAW]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19841
Loc: New York
I had no idea that was what you meant. I thought you just meant it was uninteresting because the same thing kept happening.
And really I thought the IIIIII.... and your saying "triples" (which isn't really a term) meant you were either kidding or mildly impaired at the moment. smile

Sorry.
Jason gave you a good answer.

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#2025897 - 02/02/13 12:51 PM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: Derulux]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19841
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Derulux
That, and the scene where he forces the players to practice without music. Two of my favorite scenes.

This scene ("too many notes") is one of my faves too, and I often use the phrase about other things including as a metaphor for things having nothing to do with music.

I don't remember that other scene. BTW I'm sure he didn't really make them play without music, just without the score. grin

My other favorite scene: When he and Salieri meet, and he plays back Salieri's march immediately by memory but not without dissing and 'correcting' it. ha
Great lines in it:
"That doesn't really work, does it?"
"And the rest is just the same, isn't it."

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#2025900 - 02/02/13 12:56 PM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: Mark_C]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5423
Originally Posted By: Mark_C


My other favorite scene: When he and Salieri meet, and he plays back Salieri's march immediately by memory but not without dissing and 'correcting' it. ha
Great lines in it:
"That doesn't really work, does it?"
"And the rest is just the same, isn't it."


If that scene really did occur, then Figaro's most famous aria in Le nozze di Figaro was just Wolfie's improvement on Salieri's little march...... grin
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2025901 - 02/02/13 12:59 PM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: bennevis]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19841
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: bennevis
If that scene really did occur....

Never figured it did but it "works." ha

Quote:
....then Figaro's most famous aria in Le nozze di Figaro was just Wolfie's improvement on Salieri's little march...... grin

True!!
(It basically is!)

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#2025909 - 02/02/13 01:25 PM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: MarkAW]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18227
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: MarkAW
When the arpeggios start, Mozart has a quarter followed by a triple four times in the measure.

I I-I-I I I-I-I I I-I-I I I-I-I


I'm not sure what all this I I-I-I- (etc.) means. If you are considering that the "arpeggios start" at measure 18, nothing could be more strictly regular.

In the right hand :
- beat one : quarter note,
- beat two : sixteenth rest plus three sixteenths, (equalling one quarter note)
- beat three : quarter note,
- beat four : sixteenth rest plus three sixteenths, (equalling one quarter note)
= total of four beats, each beat the equivalent of four sixteenths or one quarter, however you wish to count it.

In the left hand :
- beat one : sixteenth rest plus three sixteenths (equalling one quarter note)
- beat two : quarter note,
- beat three : sixteenth rest plus three quarter notes (equalling one quarter note)
- beat four : quarter note
= total of four beats, each beat the equivalent of four sixteenths or one quarter, however you wish to count it.

Where are there "too many notes"?

Regards,
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BruceD
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Estonia 190

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#2025915 - 02/02/13 01:41 PM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: BruceD]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19841
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Where are there "too many notes"?

He was thinking of Liszt or Rachmaninoff. grin

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#2025952 - 02/02/13 03:51 PM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: MarkAW]
MarkAW Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/13
Posts: 24
Why aren't the 16th notes triplets?

It makes sense. Thank you.

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#2025958 - 02/02/13 04:12 PM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: MarkAW]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19841
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: MarkAW
Why aren't the 16th notes triplets?

"Triplets" aren't just any 3 note group; they're when the notes have a different length than the indicated note value.

Like, if three 16th notes were a triplet, all together they'd be only as long as two regular 16th notes, i.e. the notes would be played a little quicker. And that's the usual thing: the 3 notes of the triplet are played in the same length of time as 2 notes of that value would usually be played. (Sometimes the 3 notes have the length of 4 usual notes, but that's much less common.)

Here, the 3 notes you're talking about are just regular 16th notes. The fact that it's "3 notes" doesn't at all make them triplets.

But good question. smile

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#2026016 - 02/02/13 07:26 PM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: MarkAW]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18227
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: MarkAW
Why aren't the 16th notes triplets?

It makes sense. Thank you.


The sixteenth notes are not triplets because there is a sixteenth-rest on the beat of each group to make four sixteenths equalling one quarter-note (one beat).

If they were triplets, the rest would be a quarter-rest and there would be a figure 3 over the remaining three notes indicating that they were to be played in the time of two sixteenth-notes.

It seems as though you may need some review of basic note values.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#2026095 - 02/02/13 11:23 PM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: BruceD]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19841
Loc: New York
Looks like you don't look at the rest of the posts before doing yours! No harm, but it puts you to some duplicative effort. grin

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#2026118 - 02/03/13 12:45 AM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: MarkAW]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18227
Loc: Victoria, BC
Geez!
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BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#2026138 - 02/03/13 01:45 AM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: MarkAW]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4263
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Heck you chaps ... my nose was so put out of joint by the
Mozart movie ... so much so, that I walked out after 20 minutes of viewing ... but then you chaps are cowboys.

My mind's eye picture of music of the genius was totally out of kilter with the bizarre coquetish scenes ... Salieri
gave me the pip ... sometimes in nightmares I schock to the thought that it was he who wrote the Mozart masterpieces.

It's good to wake up to the reality that Wolfie is still around and giving us a chune.

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#2026141 - 02/03/13 01:52 AM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: btb]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19841
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: btb
Heck you chaps ... my nose was so put out of joint by the
Mozart movie ... so much so, that I walked out after 20 minutes of viewing ....

See the show. (If you can.)
It was much better. smile

Really -- I found the movie a disappointment. Terrific still, but a disappointment.

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#2026147 - 02/03/13 02:05 AM Re: Too many notes in Mozart's Sonata 545 I [Re: MarkAW]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4263
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Enough of the grotty old Mozart (some say) ...

I’m presently listening to Menuhin and Grappelli play Gershwin

Fascinating Rhythm,
Summertime,
Nice Work If You Can Get It,
Embraceable You,
Liza,
A Foggy Day,
‘S Wonderful,
The Man I Love,
I Got Rhythm,
They Can’t Take That Away,
They All Laughed,
Love is Her to Stay and
Lady Be Good.

Aren’t we lucky ... thank you George and Ira.

Feel better now ... gadzooks!

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