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#2025461 - 02/01/13 05:10 PM Estonia 168 owners?
peabody Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 57
Loc: nc
Any other 168 owners out there?


Edited by peabody (02/02/13 09:10 AM)
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#2025563 - 02/01/13 08:03 PM Re: looking for fellow owners [Re: peabody]
Sir Lurksalot Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 1244
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#2025571 - 02/01/13 08:17 PM Re: looking for fellow owners [Re: peabody]
PattyP Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/04
Posts: 615
Loc: Texas
I don't qualify, but I did *almost* pull the trigger on a 190 this summer.

I have a question to those who may be more familiar with Estonia than I am.

Has Estonia killed the 7' that was supposed to be coming out? I was told by the dealer that they were expecting a 7' soon. It is listed in the brochure he gave me but there is nothing about it on the Estonia web site. Is the 7' Estonia dead? frown
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A tired dog is a good dog.

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#2025585 - 02/01/13 08:41 PM Re: looking for fellow owners [Re: PattyP]
PianoWorksATL Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2726
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: PattyP
Has Estonia killed the 7' that was supposed to be coming out? I was told by the dealer that they were expecting a 7' soon. It is listed in the brochure he gave me but there is nothing about it on the Estonia web site. Is the 7' Estonia dead? frown
I don't want to hijack the thread, but the new Estonia model L210 (~6'11") is just now in production. Frank Baxter and a few other forum members like myself went to Ori's Manhattan store for a reception with the President of the Republic of Estonia in late September. The United Nations was in session and the reception introduced the first L210. That was fun!

The L210 debuted at NAMM last week and a quick search of YouTube or past threads on this forum will get you to just a couple of videos made so far. They will gradually become available to Estonia dealers worldwide. I'm on that waiting list. wink

I'm not surprised that brochures and website updates are lagging behind the development of the instruments. Except for the Pianoworld ad on the right featuring a picture of Frank's hands, I cannot remember seeing any other advertisement from the company. The Estonia L225 has been out for 2 years and, while it is now in the brochure, it still hasn't made the website.

Now back to the OP. I'm fresh out of Estonia L168's. I'm on the waiting list for those, too.
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Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
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#2025638 - 02/01/13 10:46 PM Re: looking for fellow owners [Re: peabody]
PattyP Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/04
Posts: 615
Loc: Texas
Thanks for that info, Sam. While I'm not *currently* in the market for an acoustic grand, I'll be really interested to experience the new Estonia. Heck, maybe by the time they make it to my neck of the woods I'll be ready. thumb
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A tired dog is a good dog.

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#2025848 - 02/02/13 11:08 AM Re: looking for fellow owners [Re: PattyP]
ChatNoir Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1477
Loc: Encino, California
I am a very happy owner of a 168 Estonia from 2000.
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Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.

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#2025990 - 02/02/13 05:55 PM Re: looking for fellow owners [Re: peabody]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4380
Loc: Jersey Shore
Amazing how popular the Estonia is, yet mine has been on sale on Piano-mart and the only bites are from Nigerians...

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#2026009 - 02/02/13 07:00 PM Re: looking for fellow owners [Re: Mark...]
PianoWorksATL Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2726
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: Mark...
Amazing how popular the Estonia is, yet mine has been on sale on Piano-mart and the only bites are from Nigerians...
Pianomart is a nice format and is convenient, however, having listed some used pianos on there for almost year of a variety of brands, I can say that is a reflection of the traffic on Pianomart moreso than Estonia. Nigerians really love pianos. I don't get many genuine inquiries for any brand listed.
_________________________
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PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#2026021 - 02/02/13 07:39 PM Re: looking for fellow owners [Re: Mark...]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19472
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Mark...
Amazing how popular the Estonia is, yet mine has been on sale on Piano-mart and the only bites are from Nigerians...
Saying Estonia is a popular piano at PW or a highly regarded piano by many afficionados is different from saying it's popular. Most average piano buyers have never heard of Estonia (or many of the pianos frequently discussed at PW). If they only make/sell 300 pianos per year that's not popular in the sense of well known or highly regarded by the general public.


Edited by pianoloverus (02/02/13 07:40 PM)

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#2026029 - 02/02/13 08:25 PM Re: looking for fellow owners [Re: pianoloverus]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4380
Loc: Jersey Shore
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Mark...
Amazing how popular the Estonia is, yet mine has been on sale on Piano-mart and the only bites are from Nigerians...
Saying Estonia is a popular piano at PW or a highly regarded piano by many afficionados is different from saying it's popular. Most average piano buyers have never heard of Estonia (or many of the pianos frequently discussed at PW). If they only make/sell 300 pianos per year that's not popular in the sense of well known or highly regarded by the general public.


True, but a piano that is in short supply in the new department, should drive up some interest in the used department, even if it is less known by the general public.


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#2026037 - 02/02/13 08:43 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: peabody]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14139
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Mark:

Insider tip:

Please consider to perhaps start accepting your dealer's repeated offers to assist re the the small adjustment your piano seems to need. For reasons unknown you keep insisting to use exclusively your own tuner who is also your teacher, someone who doesn't seem to like much the piano you bought.

Please remember that the dealer you bought your piano from happens to be one of the most respected dealers in U.S. and has repeatedly offered you assistance in the matter.

Mark, your story is so out of the ordinary that it's simply not believable. There's nobody who had a problem with Estonia that couldn't have easily fixed. I wrote you several times myself to help but didn't get the feeling you "wanted" to be helped.

You may have your own reasons why you're doing what you're doing but it's not gonna be beneficial to you, your piano or your chances to sell.

This all said in good will to get results for you instead of being permanently locked in what appears to be a "hopeless situation".

Please consider again: if only for being able to sell piano.

Plus stop getting dubious mail from Nigeria....

Norbert smile


Edited by Norbert (02/02/13 08:47 PM)
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www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2026042 - 02/02/13 08:57 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: Norbert]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4380
Loc: Jersey Shore
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Mark:

Insider tip:

Please consider to perhaps start accepting your dealer's repeated offers to assist re the the small adjustment your piano seems to need. For reasons unknown you keep insisting to use exclusively your own tuner who is also your teacher, someone who doesn't seem to like much the piano you bought.

Please remember that the dealer you bought your piano from happens to be one of the most respected dealers in U.S. and has repeatedly offered you assistance in the matter.

Mark, your story is so out of the ordinary that it's simply not believable. There's nobody who had a problem with Estonia that couldn't have easily fixed. I wrote you several times myself to help but didn't get the feeling you "wanted" to be helped.

You may have your own reasons why you're doing what you're doing but it's not gonna be beneficial to you, your piano or your chances to sell.

This all said in good will to get results for you instead of being permanently locked in what appears to be a "hopeless situation".

Please consider again: if only for being able to sell piano.

Plus stop getting dubious mail from Nigeria....

Norbert smile


Norbert, you don't know what you are talking about. I have been using the tuner the dealer recommended two years ago (John Gunderson). He was here this week. Check with the dealer and the tech.

As for the dealer, his main guy said I needed new strings on the high end when he left 15 months ago, and when I tried to setup an appointment for the work, they wouldn't take or return my calls after numerous attempts.

You really need to mind your own business, you have no clue.

When they did the previous work it took them four months to get the parts and 3 months to install them. They chipped the plate too. And then mailed me touch up paint.

As I told you in a PM, I gave up on the dealer and moving on to selling it. If it hurts your feeling or your brand reputation too bad. I don't even think Estonia piano's are bad, mine isn't up to their high standards and the service hasn't been good.

And my previous posts in this thread did not mention any issues with the piano...


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#2026058 - 02/02/13 09:31 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: peabody]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14139
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Mark:

Quote:
When they did the previous work it took them four months to get the parts and 3 months to install them.


There are no Estonia parts that wouldn't be available within few days or weeks at the longest.

We once had to order a whole lid which was damaged in transit, it took 2 weeks, the longest we ever had to wait for anything.

By the way, did you forget to mention that the dealer offered you also to exchange your piano or give you full value towards another one?

I'm not here to make a case "for" or "against" your situation but if people would know who the dealer in question is I don't thing your case would be considered very credible.

It's all I wish to say - best wishes,

Norbert smile


Edited by Norbert (02/02/13 09:38 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2026060 - 02/02/13 09:40 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: Norbert]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4380
Loc: Jersey Shore
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Mark:

Did you forget to mention that the dealer offered you also to exchange your piano or give you full value towards another one?

Norbert


I should of taken him up on that deal, but the Estonia's he had at that time all had the same string leveling problems and we thought it could be fixed in mine. I wasn't interested in the other pianos he had either or spending more money.

But nice diversion from the real issue Norbert...


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#2026061 - 02/02/13 09:45 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: Norbert]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4380
Loc: Jersey Shore
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Mark:

Quote:
When they did the previous work it took them four months to get the parts and 3 months to install them.


There are no Estonia parts that wouldn't be available within few days or weeks at the longest.

We once had to order a whole lid which was damaged in transit, it took 2 weeks, the longest we ever had to wait for anything.

By the way, did you forget to mention that the dealer offered you also to exchange your piano or give you full value towards another one?

I'm not here to make a case "for" or "against" your situation but if people would know who the dealer in question is I don't thing your case would be considered very credible.

It's all I wish to say - best wishes,

Norbert smile


Norbert, everything I have stated is the truth. Ask the dealer.

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#2026064 - 02/02/13 09:51 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: peabody]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14139
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:

Norbert, everything I have stated is the truth. Ask the dealer.


I have. Quite extensively actually.

Got a very different version of things....

Very Sincerely

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2026065 - 02/02/13 09:53 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: Norbert]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4380
Loc: Jersey Shore
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Quote:

Norbert, everything I have stated is the truth. Ask the dealer.


I have. Quite extensively actually.

Got a very different version of things....

Very Sincerely

Norbert


Then he is lying... good night.

Think about it. I gave up on the dealer, he is off the hook. I am selling the piano and making the best of it. YOU bring up the issues about the problems, but not me. So why would I not be honest. What would be my agenda. We know your agenda is to protect the brand, or is it a sneaky way of you to knock the dealer in question? I have no agenda but to move onto another piano...people are not stupid.

PS: I saved all our PM conversations and the ones with the dealer. If I post them you will truly be embarrassed.

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#2026233 - 02/03/13 09:25 AM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: Mark...]
peabody Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 57
Loc: nc
Hi Mark....
I am interested in the issues you had with your 168. Could you please summarize? I have had mine for about a year and, though I enjoy the overall tone.... the treble section is unpleasant to my ears and a few of the notes in particular have a dead sound to them. My dealer keeps saying time will heal but I wonder.

Thanks
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#2026332 - 02/03/13 01:53 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: Norbert]
Roger Ransom Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 1266
Loc: SouthWest Michigan
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Mark:


I'm not here to make a case "for" or "against" your situation
Norbert smile


Sure you are and you know it.
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#2026365 - 02/03/13 02:25 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: Roger Ransom]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19472
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Roger Ransom
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Mark:


I'm not here to make a case "for" or "against" your situation
Norbert smile


Sure you are and you know it.
Of course he is. The part of the sentence after "but" does exactly what he says he's not doing!

"I'm not here to make a case "for" or "against" your situation but if people would know who the dealer in question is I don't thing your case would be considered very credible."




Edited by pianoloverus (02/03/13 02:32 PM)

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#2026372 - 02/03/13 02:41 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: peabody]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14139
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
People may not know but I have gone out of my way before trying to help Mark.

I feel very bad when someone is not happy with his piano, especially when it's a very well regarded make we happen to represent ourselves. My efforts to Mark were 100% sincere.

Despite several probings including talking with dealer myself, no information to date has been given indicating where a problem with the piano may be.

General descriptions of sorts all seem to fall under general maintaintanace, regulation and questions of voicing perhaps.

If it is anything else, there's a factory warranty, by the one one of the fastest and most reliable in the industry.

At no time howeve, was there an indication that actual parts or components needed being changed which as mentioned, would not have been a problem if they were.

Most importantly,and people may not know this, there have been several overtures by dealer to make his customer happy, including apparently exchanging the piano or getting full credit towards another one.

In my book, this is exemplary behaviour by the dealer.

To *not* accept any of these options leaves one one puzzled of what this case is all about.

There's nothing against Mark at all - he can choose to do whatever he likes to - but to come on board at the very moment when people report about their overall very happy experience with this piano, can't help but leave one puzzled.

Also from our experience used Estonias are today a sought after commodidity on market selling very well - nobody's getting calls or needs getting calls "from Nigeria"....

So what is this all about?

Without Mark's own help including "accepting" any help that has been offered to him, this case will forever be a mystery.

Still believing that the offer of being helpful to Mark and "accepting it" by himself should remain an open option. thumb

To make Mark happy is what this is all about.
But it needs two to tango..

It it's become a question "for" or "against" anybody, it's actually all "for Mark"

Norbert smile


Edited by Norbert (02/03/13 03:10 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2026402 - 02/03/13 04:21 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: peabody]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4380
Loc: Jersey Shore
Again Norbert you do not know what you are talking about.

As I stated there were kinks in the strings causing terrible overtones. They said they believed it was from the string leveling machine. Most of the strings were replaced, but not all. They used Pure Tone strings. It took 4 months to get them. Talking to the supplier the dealer waited a LONG time to order them. It took 3 months to put in the strings. Lyre was creaking badly and is still an issue. It was reportedly replaced.

The dealer sent his "best guy" over when the piano still sounded bad. Your words Norbert.

When the dealers "best guy" was done he said I needed to use one of their tuners (Which I now use). John Gunderson. He also said the piano needed more string work at a later date.

At this point and for months the principals involved would not take my calls or call back.

I told Norbert that I gave up..since the dealer seemed to have given up.

I am trying to sell the piano. Case closed.


I also believe Norbert is trying to discredit the said dealer in some under handed way. Just a guess.

His private messages to me stated how bad my piano sounded and that the dealer needed to make it right. This was way after all the work was done except for the visit by the "big guy tech".

Recently he wanted to know what was the status of my piano and I told him I was selling it. That the dealer would not take my calls. I told him to not get involved.

Again Norbert, mind your own business. And if you don't like my Estonia comments too bad. All I said in this thread was I wasn't getting any action on Piano mart. Not one negative word about the piano having problems.



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#2026409 - 02/03/13 04:38 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: peabody]
peabody Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 57
Loc: nc
Back to the original issue....
I'm wondering if there are any estonia 168 owners out there who are satisfied with their purchase... interested in hearing from them. Thanks


Edited by peabody (02/03/13 04:40 PM)
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#2026427 - 02/03/13 05:22 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: peabody]
Sir Lurksalot Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 1244
Purchased in 2004 and extremely satisfied. We once hosted a recital for my daughter's teacher, a fine pianist who comes from a very musical family. Anyway, she said our piano was her favorite among all the ones she'd ever played. We bought it when our son was nine. He's now a conservatory piano student, so it has seen heavy use and held up very well.

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#2026441 - 02/03/13 05:48 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: peabody]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19472
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: peabody
Back to the original issue....
I'm wondering if there are any estonia 168 owners out there who are satisfied with their purchase... interested in hearing from them. Thanks
If you already own one, what's the point of asking? There is a site for Estonia owners that might interest you, but someone else will have to tell you the name as I don't remember it.

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#2026451 - 02/03/13 06:10 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: pianoloverus]
peabody Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 57
Loc: nc
Yes, I already have one but am a bit dis-satisfied with a few things. Just wanting to connect with others who own the same piano to compare notes.

The estonia site is very lonely by the way.

Thanks to those who have posted.


Edited by peabody (02/03/13 06:10 PM)
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#2026506 - 02/03/13 07:45 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: pianoloverus]
Sir Lurksalot Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 1244
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
There is a site for Estonia owners that might interest you, but someone else will have to tell you the name as I don't remember it.


It was called Estoniaworld, and was very active for a few years, but it no longer exists.

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#2027153 - 02/04/13 10:03 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: peabody]
Lolek Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/14/10
Posts: 8
I am also an Estonia 168 owner. The piano was newly purchased in 2010.

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#2027162 - 02/04/13 10:40 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: peabody]
peabody Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 57
Loc: nc
Hi Lolek...
Curious to know your level of satisfaction with your instrument. Also, do you remember how many tunings it took before stabilizing. Lastly, how do you have it voiced? On the mellow to bright continuum.

Thanks
Peabody
_________________________
Peabody

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#2033053 - 02/14/13 01:33 PM Re: Estonia 168 owners? [Re: peabody]
Estonia17151 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 9
Hi All,

My wife and I just received our new L168 this past weekend and could not be more thrilled! Over the last several months, we visited a number of dealers and "test-drove" many nice pianos. In the end, we decided on Estonia and could not be any happier with our decision. Navigating through all of the information and sometimes subtle differences between makes and models was educating (and sometimes overwhelming!), but very rewarding in that we have a much better understanding and appreciation of pianos in general.

The one individual who helped immensely with our education and decision was Norbert at Heritage Pianos. From our first meeting, we immediately had the sense that we were dealing with a consummate professional with an incredible knowledge and love of pianos. Norbert literally spent hours with us discussing the differences between pianos in terms of the components used and their construction (at one point he actually partially disassembled a piano to help us understand!). But most importantly, he afforded us time alone to simply play and experience the instruments for ourselves. There was never any pressure to purchase the piano from him and I truly believe that he would have been just as sincere and happy for us had we found and purchased a piano from another dealer.

Norbert, you consistently went above and beyond for us and we cannot thank you enough for all the help and support throughout!

Chris

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