Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
68 registered (augustm, AndrewJCW, Beemer, angga888, 21 invisible), 924 Guests and 7 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Topic Options
#2026761 - 02/04/13 08:49 AM Trill from black key to white key
JanVan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/13
Posts: 51
Hello,

I'm currently practicing the G Minor Menuet (BWV Anh 115) from Bach's Notebook for Anna Magdalena and have some trouble with the RH trills in bars 8 and 9.

The trills are from B-flat to A and that appears to be much more difficult for me than trills on 2 white keys or from a white key to a black key.

Using fingers 3 and 2 is awkward because the finger on the black key is longer than the one on the white key.

Is this a problem most pianists encounter and, if so, how do they usually solve this?

Thank you for sharing your ideas on this topic.

Top
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
#2026765 - 02/04/13 08:52 AM Re: Trill from black key to white key [Re: JanVan]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12974
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
You should trill from fingers 1 to 3 instead.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



Top
#2026851 - 02/04/13 11:46 AM Re: Trill from black key to white key [Re: JanVan]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 20454
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: JanVan
Hello,Using fingers 3 and 2 is awkward because the finger on the black key is longer than the one on the white key.
Although the trill may be more awkward for you or for others, I'm not sure this explanation is why.

You could try other fingerings as have been suggested or perhaps just practicing it more will solve the problem. Any new technical situation will normally require some additional practice, and trills are in general not easy except for very advanced pianists.

Top
#2026880 - 02/04/13 12:25 PM Re: Trill from black key to white key [Re: pianoloverus]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2450
Loc: San Jose, CA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: JanVan
Hello,Using fingers 3 and 2 is awkward because the finger on the black key is longer than the one on the white key.
Although the trill may be more awkward for you or for others, I'm not sure this explanation is why.

You could try other fingerings as have been suggested or perhaps just practicing it more will solve the problem. Any new technical situation will normally require some additional practice, and trills are in general not easy except for very advanced pianists.


Yes. We play on instruments with much heavier action than Bach's, and it takes some practice to adapt the delicate muscles to rapidly alternate while still pressing hard enough to sound the keys every time. Sometimes doing drills like Hanon's trill exercise in different keys can be a good way to learn how you need to approach the different combinations (I don't recommend just grinding it out mindlessly to 'strengthen' your fingers).

Top
#2026888 - 02/04/13 12:32 PM Re: Trill from black key to white key [Re: JanVan]
wouter79 Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 4014
Bflat-A trill with 2,3 should be no problem, I think you have some technical problem. Do you have both fingers into the keys when you start the trill? Do you have your hand curved in the right amount?
_________________________

Top
#2026963 - 02/04/13 02:49 PM Re: Trill from black key to white key [Re: wouter79]
JanVan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/13
Posts: 51
My hand is curved with a somewhat higher wrist to accommodate the elevation of the black key.

At the start of the trill, my third finger touches the B-flat key while my second finger is hovering some distance (maybe 2 cm) above the A key.

Top
#2026970 - 02/04/13 03:11 PM Re: Trill from black key to white key [Re: JanVan]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18869
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: JanVan
My hand is curved with a somewhat higher wrist to accommodate the elevation of the black key.

At the start of the trill, my third finger touches the B-flat key while my second finger is hovering some distance (maybe 2 cm) above the A key.


That may - I say: may - be part of the problem. Make sure that both fingers are close to each of the keys as you start the trill, and don't raise them any more than you have to to make the notes repeat. Moreover, the trill does not have to be a very rapid trill; in some contexts in Baroque music, it is better that the trill be measured rather than a fast trill with an indeterminate number of notes. This could well be one of those instances.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

Top
#2026971 - 02/04/13 03:12 PM Re: Trill from black key to white key [Re: JanVan]
bennevis Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 6646
Originally Posted By: JanVan
My hand is curved with a somewhat higher wrist to accommodate the elevation of the black key.

At the start of the trill, my third finger touches the B-flat key while my second finger is hovering some distance (maybe 2 cm) above the A key.


It's something that every pianist will eventually have to learn and get used to - the positioning of the black keys in relation to the white ones, and using all the fingers on both. When you start playing block chords, you need to position your fingers in all the right positions, and then drop your hand with all fingers pre-positioned so that all the notes sound at exactly the same time, black or white notes, whichever fingers are on them (and thumbs and little fingers also play black notes in chords too). There is no time like the present to learn to play trills properly with 2-3 with one of the fingers on a black key.

Relax your hand so that your second (index) finger is resting on the A, and the third finger is resting on the B flat, and get used to that position until you feel comfortable, then play one note after the other slowly and evenly, back and forth......
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

Top
#2027022 - 02/04/13 05:03 PM Re: Trill from black key to white key [Re: JanVan]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2521
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: JanVan
Hello,

Thank you for sharing your ideas on this topic.


Hello JanVan, and welcome. I'll happily share my ideas ... my idea, rather, because I have only one: take it easy! Don't try to play these ornaments like an experienced pîanist. Don't stress. Forget the word trill, and cease to try to trill, just play them easily, nicely, slowly, as with every note in the piece. You can even not play the ornaments at all, and the music will sound marvelous!

Top

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
Back to School Music SALE!
Save 10% in our online store
.
Just enter SAVE10 in the coupon box during checkout. *
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
* Sale does not apply to advertising, how old requests, or any non-tangible items. Can not be combined with any other promotions. Ends August 31, 2015
(ad) Teaching Children Music
Teaching Music to Children
(ad) Yamaha Stage Pianos
Yamaha CP4 & CP40 Stage Pianos
(ads) PD - WNG - MH
Wessell Nickel & Gross
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Could narrower 7/8 and 15/16 ESPKs be the future ?
by jbolt91
08/28/15 05:38 AM
I just leveled-up
by PDizz
08/27/15 10:24 PM
Interval reading
by My Bucket List
08/27/15 10:14 PM
Double-striking keys on Petrof II grand
by doctor S
08/27/15 08:57 PM
Fixing Ivory Keys (more like chiseling them down)
by AmandaH
08/27/15 08:22 PM
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
80,543 Registered Members
44 Forums
166,466 Topics
2,439,778 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission