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#2026834 - 02/04/13 11:06 AM buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound"
Ray Xavier Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 23
Hello everyone,

I have been looking for the best "electronic" acoustic piano sound for the past monds but haven't really found it yet. I just want something that comes really close to the real deal. I have bought EWQL pianos (a VSTi) but I can't use it yet because my old keyboards MIDI is a little bit... let's say it doesn't work as it should be. So I'm going to buy a new keyboard and my price tag is somewhere below 2000 euro's. I want a quality/professional (stage) piano with a really good acoustic piano sound and fine working MIDI. I don't care about anything else except the good "acoustic like" sound and the MIDI soo I guess there are alot of options below 2000 euros. I have taken a look at ROLAND but the acoustic sound is close.. but just "not it" and I'm thinking about going for a YAMAHA again (got a protable grand DGX-620 right now).
Do you guys have any suggestions?

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#2026842 - 02/04/13 11:31 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2335
Loc: UK
Only you know what is the best acoustic sound according to your taste. The basic sounds from Kawai, Roland and Yamaha are different.

Folks on here will send you towards the Roland 700NX Studio Grand, the Kawai MP6, MP10, ES7 and even the older EP3, and Yamaha Pxx or CPxx. Some of the NORD acoustic samples also find favour.

There's not much love here for Casio, except as good value lightweight boards.

Those on here really after an authentic sound though favour Vintage D VST.

You probably need to differentiate further by price, function, keys and weight. Or, what do you really want it for.


Edited by spanishbuddha (02/04/13 11:33 AM)

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#2026885 - 02/04/13 12:29 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
None of them is a perfect emulation of any existing grand piano. There are always compromises.

If you prefer:
Non-looped decay = Roland SN + Korg Kronos/Krome

88-note sampling = Roland + Kawai MP/ES7 + Korg Kronos/Krome

Choice of emulations = Nord (although Roland RD-700NX, Korg Kronos and Yamaha CP5/1 also offer individually sampled alternatives to their main acoustic sound)

Sophisticated tri-sensor action with simulated let-off = Roland RD-700NX + Kawai ES7

Greater than 4 velocity layers = Korg Kronos/Krome + Studiologic Numa + Yamaha CP1 + (possibly) Nord and Roland

But as spanishbuddha says, only you know what you like.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2026889 - 02/04/13 12:33 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3194
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Choice of emulations = Nord (although Roland RD-700NX, Korg Kronos and Yamaha CP5/1 also offer individually sampled alternatives to their main acoustic sound)

Also, there are numerous additional downloadable different piano samples for Kronos and Yamaha Motif XF... but unlike Nord, you usually have to purchase them separately.

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#2026926 - 02/04/13 01:39 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
zapper Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/13
Posts: 77
get roland's V-Piano nothing compares as far as the feel, touch and sound.

p.s.
2k Euros should get you first installment wink
other then that RD700NX in your price range.

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#2027085 - 02/04/13 07:14 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
RD700NX ....
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2027104 - 02/04/13 07:51 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Dr Popper]
Amaruk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 802
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
RD700NX ....


+1 thumb
_________________________
My piano channel on YouTube: Link

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#2027155 - 02/04/13 10:09 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
jawhitti Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 235
The RD is not bad but the V-Piano blows it away (for 2.5x the price, it better).

The Nord Piano and Stage 2 both have very good reputations too. They don't feel all that authentic but they're good enough for Hiromi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ao3gRYpV6A

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#2027158 - 02/04/13 10:17 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: jawhitti]
36251 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 739
Originally Posted By: jawhitti
The RD is not bad but the V-Piano blows it away (for 2.5x the price, it better).

The Nord Piano and Stage 2 both have very good reputations too. They don't feel all that authentic but they're good enough for Hiromi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ao3gRYpV6A
OT - Hiromi - Amazing and Boring at the same time. That's quite an accomplishment. The only thing missing is her playing the other instruments during that performance.
_________________________
AG N2, CP4, GK MK & MP

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#2027196 - 02/05/13 12:01 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Peter B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 22
Loc: USA
If acoustic piano-like action is important: Kawai MP10

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#2027200 - 02/05/13 12:09 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: jawhitti]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: jawhitti
The RD is not bad but the V-Piano blows it away (for 2.5x the price, it better).




That opinion is quite the minority view ...
The NX studio grand kills the V piano ....
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2027262 - 02/05/13 03:29 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Dr Popper]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5011
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: jawhitti
The RD is not bad but the V-Piano blows it away (for 2.5x the price, it better).




That opinion is quite the minority view ...
The NX studio grand kills the V piano ....


The RD-700NX is certainly one of the best (in fact, probably the best among non-modeled DPs), but if played side-by-side with the V-Piano, there's really no comparison in terms of the sheer 'realism' of the latter's responsiveness to minute changes of articulation and touch of the player, especially at the extremes of dynamics. The more it's pushed, the more you realize just how remarkable the V's simulation of the acoustic grand is.

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#2027269 - 02/05/13 04:45 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: bennevis]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: jawhitti
The RD is not bad but the V-Piano blows it away (for 2.5x the price, it better).




That opinion is quite the minority view ...
The NX studio grand kills the V piano ....


The RD-700NX is certainly one of the best (in fact, probably the best among non-modeled DPs), but if played side-by-side with the V-Piano, there's really no comparison in terms of the sheer 'realism' of the latter's responsiveness to minute changes of articulation and touch of the player, especially at the extremes of dynamics. The more it's pushed, the more you realize just how remarkable the V's simulation of the acoustic grand is.


I had a V ... Got rid of it because of its lack of realism.
I've got a RD700NX .....I've kept it and used it, even recorded it when I could have used a real grand piano and that speaks for itself.
I find it amusing that the only people who defend the V are people who already own one and therefore have a vested interest in their hideously overpriced and under performing instrument.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2027305 - 02/05/13 07:48 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Ray Xavier Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 23
Oke guys, I have found my favourite! Went to a shop today and played a lot of yamaha stage piano's.. None of them really standed out to me and when I went playing on the Nord piano 2.. I was instantly sold. Amazing sound library, a good feel and just a good experience overall. Even all the knobs and buttons felt high quality soo.. I'm almost definitely sure I'm gonna buy that one

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#2027306 - 02/05/13 07:49 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
@Ray

Is weight a point of consideration ? I mean RN700NX or MP10 (even heavier) are fine boards , but you didn't indicate how much weight you wnat to carry around. Otherwise Nord Piano 2 , or Casio PX or the KROME 88 may be interesting as lightweight boards ? Not the top actions, but since you didn't mention top-action as a top-priority I guess that doesn't matter...In terms of best piano sound: KROME88 >= Nord2 > Casio PX-x50

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#2027334 - 02/05/13 09:16 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Ray Xavier Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 23
Oke, I will be more specific.. I want a 88-key stage piano, with fully or graded weighted keys (just a good feel for me, don't really care about the specific specs), amazing piano samples and a below 2500 euro price tag. I don't really care about the weight or all the different synthesizer options and extra sounds. And although with the nord piano 2 I'm also paying for that, for me its: [ Nord 2 > YAMAHA > Roland ] right now, haven't tried any other brand yet..

@JFP I will take a look at the KROME88 wink

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#2027341 - 02/05/13 09:35 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Dr Popper]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5011
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper





I had a V ... Got rid of it because of its lack of realism.
I've got a RD700NX .....I've kept it and used it, even recorded it when I could have used a real grand piano and that speaks for itself.
I find it amusing that the only people who defend the V are people who already own one and therefore have a vested interest in their hideously overpriced and under performing instrument.


It looks as though you don't know any classical musicians who have played and used DPs including the V-Piano. My pop & jazz acquaintances say exactly the same as you do and can't look beyond what they expect a DP to do (not sure what it is they expect, but they equate 'value' with bells and whistles and flashing lights and funny sounds wink ); my classical friends who normally only play acoustics rave about the V-Piano's sheer realism when they play it, and like me, have no interest in any funny sounds.

But as one hack once said, there's no accounting for tastes (not even bad tastes....).

Don't get me wrong; the RD-700NX is a great DP for people like you. It's just not as good as the V-Piano for a pianist.

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#2027444 - 02/05/13 01:14 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
thercman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 126
Loc: Spokane WA, United States
Originally Posted By: Ray Xavier
Oke guys, I have found my favourite! Went to a shop today and played a lot of yamaha stage piano's.. None of them really standed out to me and when I went playing on the Nord piano 2.. I was instantly sold. Amazing sound library, a good feel and just a good experience overall. Even all the knobs and buttons felt high quality soo.. I'm almost definitely sure I'm gonna buy that one


+1

Mine is on its way... grin
_________________________
NP2, Arturia Laboratory 61

Addictive Keys, Kawai EX Pro
Heil PR-40 Mic, Allen & Heath Mixer, Yamaha HS80

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#2027610 - 02/05/13 06:16 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Nigeth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 108
I played a V-Piano today through the monitor setup in Thomann's flagship store at the corporate headquarters which is as high end as it get's probably. I found it to be OK but a bit bland and too close to the sound and feel of the RD700NX considering its price tag.

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#2027634 - 02/05/13 06:48 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
origen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/17/12
Posts: 84
Loc: New Hampshire
I just purchased the RD700NX and couldn't be happier, I find myself using the studio grand sample or pairing it up with my computer and using NI's The Giant, I waited well over a year going to music stores all over and trying just about every dp out there, Im lucky to live in the Boston area so music stores are everywhere up here. Once you get into that 2k range it really seems that the top offers of today are the MP10, Nord Piano 2 and RD700NX, Yamaha is close and rumor has it that they are hard at work at releasing a new sample for future dp's. My experience is one that put the RD700NX on top for 3 reasons.
1. Keyboard action, MP10 and the 700 are excellent, the Nord really doesn't compete
2. Sounds, all three are great, the Nord has the most character (best sounding unless your really being critical), the 700 has the most complete sample all around (resonance, decay, clarity, tone), and the MP10 is a decent sample but doesn't stand out quite like the other 2.
3. MIDI, as far as hooking the 700 up to a pc and using orchestral, piano, choir and synth libraries while retaining the feel of a great keybed and controls, nothing out there compares at this time other than the MP10. Neither have aftertouch but the 700nx allows you to split and layer up to 4 zones if you need them while the MP10 is limited to one, however I like the MP10s wheels vs the 700NX's joystick.
Also you can get one brand new in the US for under 2300 pretty easily, sweetwater will initially quote 2350, Guitar Center will beat that and then sweetwater may beat that price again. Just email them. Best of luck!


Edited by origen (02/06/13 11:48 AM)
_________________________
RD700NX, Komplete 8, NI Maschine

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#2027641 - 02/05/13 06:57 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9051
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
origen, congrats on the purchase of your new RD-700NX! I agree, it's a fantastic board!

May I ask why you felt the Roland is superior to the Kawai in terms of MIDI features? I'm just wondering if there's perhaps something missing from the MP10's interface or connectivity?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2027652 - 02/05/13 07:11 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Kawai James]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Kawai James


May I ask why you felt the Roland is superior to the Kawai in terms of MIDI features? I'm just wondering if there's perhaps something missing from the MP10's interface or connectivity?

Cheers,
James
x


That's a good question because the MP10 is a excellent controller.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2027653 - 02/05/13 07:13 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Amaruk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 802
Loc: New England, USA
Origen,

Congratulations to your new piano!!! I have had my for a year now and I still love it as much as I did the first day I got it! Enjoy!!
_________________________
My piano channel on YouTube: Link

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#2027655 - 02/05/13 07:20 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Dr Popper]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9051
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
That's a good question because the MP10 is a excellent controller.


_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2027659 - 02/05/13 07:29 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Kawai James]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3194
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
May I ask why you felt the Roland is superior to the Kawai in terms of MIDI features? I'm just wondering if there's perhaps something missing from the MP10's interface or connectivity?

Isn't the RD-700NX a full 4-zone controller, i.e. like the MP6, whereas the MP10 is more piano but less controller?

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#2027662 - 02/05/13 07:32 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Nigeth]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5011
Originally Posted By: Nigeth
I played a V-Piano today through the monitor setup in Thomann's flagship store at the corporate headquarters which is as high end as it get's probably. I found it to be OK but a bit bland and too close to the sound and feel of the RD700NX considering its price tag.


I certainly agree that the V-Piano's sound lacks impact in its factory default settings. If you get the chance to try it again, try customizing the sound a little (unlike the RD-700NX, you can alter its sound to your heart's content in myriad ways): go to V1 Concert setting, increase the tone color to +2 or +3, increase the string, soundboard and cross-resonances to +50 or so, increase the decay time to +60.

You'll now have resonances and color, as well as truly realistic long sustain (with no looping), which no other DP can offer.

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#2027884 - 02/06/13 05:35 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: anotherscott]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
May I ask why you felt the Roland is superior to the Kawai in terms of MIDI features? I'm just wondering if there's perhaps something missing from the MP10's interface or connectivity?

Isn't the RD-700NX a full 4-zone controller, i.e. like the MP6, whereas the MP10 is more piano but less controller?


Well yes but the MP10 does that too ...easier.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2027888 - 02/06/13 05:56 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Dr Popper]
zapper Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/13
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
May I ask why you felt the Roland is superior to the Kawai in terms of MIDI features? I'm just wondering if there's perhaps something missing from the MP10's interface or connectivity?

Isn't the RD-700NX a full 4-zone controller, i.e. like the MP6, whereas the MP10 is more piano but less controller?


Well yes but the MP10 does that too ...easier.


well my RD700GX midi controller is rather easy and intuitive in use...

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#2027890 - 02/06/13 06:00 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Ray Xavier Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 23
Oke, thanks for the feedback everybody. You guys are making me wonder if I'm gonna go for the Nord piano 2 or the RD 700 NX. I still think I'm going for the Nord right now because I just love the sound library, like the fact that they update it regularly and that you have the possibility to update it for free.... and I'm oke with the keyboard action (reminds me of the DP I have right now). In terms of MIDI, is there really a big difference? I mean I'm planning to connect my "new stage piano" to a (usb) audio interface via a MIDI cable and what happens after that.. NO idea, but can you really hear the difference? I'm not gonna use big orchestral VST instruments soo, I think it's not really that important. (or is it??)
Everybody here is confinsing me that the RD 700 NX is a wonderful instrument (and I believe that) but I must say that when I was playing on the RD 300 NX I didn't really like it. Is it really such a difference between the two? And when you're looking at the piano library's.. does Nord beat Roland? I think Nord>Roland, especially when you look at their grand piano library: http://www.nordkeyboards.com/main.asp?tm...lib=Grand_Piano

Overall the RD 700NX may beat the Nord piano 2 HA88, but for me.. when looking at grand piano samples in the first place and a good MIDI response in the second(doesnt have to be extremely good) is it really the best?

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#2027914 - 02/06/13 07:02 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Ray Xavier

Everybody here is confinsing me that the RD 700 NX is a wonderful instrument (and I believe that) but I must say that when I was playing on the RD 300 NX I didn't really like it. Is it really such a difference between the two?


Yeah ... Massive difference in both sound and action between the 300 and 700 but the nord is very good indeed ( excepting the action which is rather poor ) The RD700NX has the best sound and action bundle of any DP and is a full 4 zone Midi controller. The Nord has those fantastic sound libraries, a rather compromised action but is very lightweight and its Midi credentials if they are anything like the Stage 2 should be excellent.
Basically I see your choice as trading the better action and SN piano of the RD for the fantastic flexibility of the Nord library and its light weight. If you find you can live with the Nords action then it should make it easier for you.


Edited by Dr Popper (02/06/13 07:12 AM)
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2027918 - 02/06/13 07:16 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3194
Originally Posted By: Ray Xavier
Oke, thanks for the feedback everybody. You guys are making me wonder if I'm gonna go for the Nord piano 2 or the RD 700 NX.
...
In terms of MIDI, is there really a big difference? I mean I'm planning to connect my "new stage piano" to a (usb) audio interface via a MIDI cable and what happens after that.. NO idea, but can you really hear the difference?

When it comes to MIDI, it's not a matter of sound quality, you won't hear a difference, rather it's a matter of MIDI features. Like, do you want buttons on the piano to be able to call up different sounds over MIDI? Do you want to have volume controls for both internal and external sounds on the piano? Do you want pitch bend and modulation controls? etc.

Originally Posted By: Ray Xavier
Everybody here is confinsing me that the RD 700 NX is a wonderful instrument (and I believe that) but I must say that when I was playing on the RD 300 NX I didn't really like it. Is it really such a difference between the two?

Yes, especially in the action.

Originally Posted By: Ray Xavier
And when you're looking at the piano library's.. does Nord beat Roland?

In terms of number of different piano sounds available, yes. In terms of the quality of piano sounds, IMO, no, but that's subjective. If you're using MIDI, though, you also have the possibility of adding different piano sounds to either one that way (as long as you're willing to be connected to another device while playing... in this case, typically a computer).

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#2027919 - 02/06/13 07:19 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Dr Popper]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3194
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: anotherscott

Isn't the RD-700NX a full 4-zone controller, i.e. like the MP6, whereas the MP10 is more piano but less controller?


Well yes but the MP10 does that too ...easier.

I just checked the manual, it looks like the MP10 supports only one MIDI zone (two zones total). The MP6 and (and I think the RD-700NX) support four MIDI zones, so when it comes to being a 4-zone controller, it would not be right to say that "MP10 does that too."

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#2027926 - 02/06/13 07:34 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: anotherscott]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: anotherscott

Isn't the RD-700NX a full 4-zone controller, i.e. like the MP6, whereas the MP10 is more piano but less controller?


Well yes but the MP10 does that too ...easier.

I just checked the manual, it looks like the MP10 supports only one MIDI zone (two zones total). The MP6 and (and I think the RD-700NX) support four MIDI zones, so when it comes to being a 4-zone controller, it would not be right to say that "MP10 does that too."


Yeah well the RD is also fully 16 part Multi if you want it to be. But the MP10 is a very easy controller to use. My 7yo daughter uses it with ease.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2027928 - 02/06/13 07:44 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Dr Popper]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9051
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
My 7yo daughter uses it with ease.


Birthday present? Lucky girl!
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2027961 - 02/06/13 08:52 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Dr Popper]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3194
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Yeah well the RD is also fully 16 part Multi if you want it to be.

That has nothing to do with it being a controller.

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#2028014 - 02/06/13 11:02 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
does the 700nx and the fp7f have the same action? what about the 300nx and the fp3f?
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Casio Privia PX-150


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#2028031 - 02/06/13 11:29 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: adak]
xorbe Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 570
Loc: Mt View, CA
Originally Posted By: adak
does the 700nx and the fp7f have the same action?

http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1123
"The FP-7F features Roland’s newly developed PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement. With the same progressive hammer action and escapement as the top-line PHA III"

(Where the RD-700NX has "PHA III Ivory Feel Keyboard with Escapement".)

Another post somewhere claims a Roland tech indicated they indeed felt slightly different.

Originally Posted By: adak
what about the 300nx and the fp3f?

RD-300NX: "New Ivory Feel-G keyboard with Escapement"
FP-4F: "Ivory Feel-G keyboard with Escapement"

Someone else will have to chime in about what that really means ...


Edited by xorbe (02/06/13 11:33 AM)

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#2028035 - 02/06/13 11:37 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3194
700NX and FP7F have the same action; 300NX and FP4F have the same action as each other, but not the same as the 700NX/FP7F.

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#2028040 - 02/06/13 11:45 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Kawai James]
origen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/17/12
Posts: 84
Loc: New Hampshire
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
origen, congrats on the purchase of your new RD-700NX! I agree, it's a fantastic board!

May I ask why you felt the Roland is superior to the Kawai in terms of MIDI features? I'm just wondering if there's perhaps something missing from the MP10's interface or connectivity?

Cheers,
James
x


I was actually mistaken in my original statement on the 700nx and mp10 not comparing in midi mode, they do actually compare quite well and I will edit my post to reflect that, the 700nx appears to only be slightly better in the fact that you can split it into 4 zones and layer those, but so far I haven't needed to do that, so for me they are really quite similar. I do however really enjoy many of the synths and bass synth patches which the mp10 doesn't really have, and one other note - the Jazz Scat patch (1st one in choirs) is sooooo fun to play around with. I havent had this much fun with one patch in a long time. Its kind of corny but the way the notes change with key velocity makes trying to play songs much more interesting. Im working on Ben Folds "The Luckiest" right now and loving life. One of the great underrated artists of our time.
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RD700NX, Komplete 8, NI Maschine

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#2028200 - 02/06/13 03:53 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: anotherscott]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2335
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
700NX and FP7F have the same action; 300NX and FP4F have the same action as each other, but not the same as the 700NX/FP7F.

I wonder? They are visually, or cosmetically, different.

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#2028223 - 02/06/13 04:32 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: origen]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: origen
Im working on Ben Folds "The Luckiest" right now and loving life. One of the great underrated artists of our time.


+1 cool

Beno's da man !!!!
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"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2028225 - 02/06/13 04:34 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: anotherscott]
Dr Popper Offline
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Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Yeah well the RD is also fully 16 part Multi if you want it to be.

That has nothing to do with it being a controller.


Nope but it is another thing it can do that most stages can't.
I can't imagine many people using it as a feature however the RD has a lot of patches and whiles the organs and EP's are not exactly first class the pads, strings and synth patches are excellent.
_________________________
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Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2028242 - 02/06/13 05:04 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: spanishbuddha]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1742
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
700NX and FP7F have the same action; 300NX and FP4F have the same action as each other, but not the same as the 700NX/FP7F.

I wonder? They are visually, or cosmetically, different.


To me the actions of the 700NX and FP7 feel different, though not a lot. It may have something to do with how they're bedded in different boards. I can also accept the possibility that the seeming difference is all in my head. smile


Edited by ClsscLib (02/06/13 05:04 PM)
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#2028246 - 02/06/13 05:10 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
The difference between RD (700NX) and FP (7F) action is just the key surface. The actions are mechanically identical. FP has a whiter - and probably more resilient - fake ivory key covering and the key assembly is all one colour. RD has the fake wood colour underneath a slightly more textured fake ivory surface. Any other perceived difference is just to do with the chassis or structure of the slab itself or of course any settings that may be different such as touch curve or offset etc.
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#2028320 - 02/06/13 07:17 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Nigeth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 108
Version 2 of the RD700-NX has the same keybed as the FP7-F. The all white keys and more resilient ivory touch have been introduced across both boards due to complaints about the original keybed of the FP7-F and RD700-NX. (Ivory Touch rubbed off for example)

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#2028325 - 02/06/13 07:33 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I haven't seen one reference to wearing keys on FP-7F. I owned a very early one and the keys were whiter than other PHA-III keys with a slightly smoother texture too.

I would be surprised if exactly the same keys were now on RD-700NX - surely it still has the wood coloured under structure to the keys?
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#2028345 - 02/06/13 08:18 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
I've owned both.

Nord Piano 2. It sounds much better live, it's lighter, has free piano and sample libraries, has better string/sympathetic resonance implementation, etc etc etc, need I say more? cool
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#2028385 - 02/06/13 09:11 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Nigeth]
torhu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 181
Originally Posted By: Nigeth
Version 2 of the RD700-NX has the same keybed as the FP7-F.
Where did get this information? Isn't Version 2 just a software update? Roland doesn't say anything about replacing the keyboard on their website.
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Roland RD-700NX // Galaxy Vintage D

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#2028387 - 02/06/13 09:16 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Mike_Martin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 386
One thing that I don't see talked about around here very much is mono-compatibility. If you're shopping for something that you intend to use LIVE on stage you should check to see how it sounds though a single speaker in mono. Not all digital pianos are created equal when it comes to this. Just my $.02
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#2028394 - 02/06/13 09:27 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9051
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Very good point Mike.

This is one of my criticisms of the Nord piano sounds - they sound fantastic in stereo (especially through headphones), but when summed to mono or just played using one channel, suffer terribly.

I applaud Casio for considering the importance of a piano patch that still sounds good in mono - these intelligent moves will be greatly appreciated by gigging players.

I'm just curious though, can you explain a little more about how the PX-5S will function in mono? Is it using some clever summing algorithms, or are there separate mono versions of the stereo patch?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2028410 - 02/06/13 10:15 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Kawai James]
Mike_Martin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 386
Originally Posted By: Kawai James


I applaud Casio for considering the importance of a piano patch that still sounds good in mono - these intelligent moves will be greatly appreciated by gigging players.

I'm just curious though, can you explain a little more about how the PX-5S will function in mono? Is it using some clever summing algorithms, or are there separate mono versions of the stereo patch?


Obviously mono compatibility has to do with a lot of things that are done during the sampling process. Mic placement that sounds great in stereo can cause all kinds of phase cancellation problems when summed to mono.

They PX-5S (in its current beta software state) has two Mono grand piano sounds. We tested them at NAMM through the PA when we found them and they sounded great. No dramatic change in tone or character. If I were to guess they've summed them somehow.

On the "synthy" side (Hex Layers) of the PX-5S you can grab each of the four layers of the piano samples, including the left and right side separately. I'll have to try variations between using just the Left or Right vs using Both at the same time and without panning to see if I can figure what they've done.
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Casio America

Casio Music Forums
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#2028419 - 02/06/13 10:31 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
The Nord Pianos have a mono summing feature. I run stereo at some gigs, but often times I run mono and it sounds good.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#2028421 - 02/06/13 10:34 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Kawai James]
adak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 282
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Very good point Mike.

This is one of my criticisms of the Nord piano sounds - they sound fantastic in stereo (especially through headphones), but when summed to mono or just played using one channel, suffer terribly.

I applaud Casio for considering the importance of a piano patch that still sounds good in mono - these intelligent moves will be greatly appreciated by gigging players.

I'm just curious though, can you explain a little more about how the PX-5S will function in mono? Is it using some clever summing algorithms, or are there separate mono versions of the stereo patch?

Cheers,
James
x


Just make sure you advertise it well. No point in having a great piano feature if no one really knows why it is better than the competition. Marketing is important. I hope the PX-5S sells well, it looks like a great piano.
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-150


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#2028466 - 02/07/13 12:16 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
these days I run my boards in stereo...
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2028747 - 02/07/13 01:03 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
jawhitti Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 235
Originally Posted By: Ray Xavier
when I went playing on the Nord piano 2.. I was instantly sold.


The Nord pianos are very good, if you loved it you should get it. I actually bought a Stage 2 sight unseen but sent it back as the feel was just too light.

You'll find afficionados for every piano you named though. If the Nord Piano made your heart leap I see no reason not to get one. It's a very respectable instrument.

Just remember to also budget for some high-quality powered monitors, stands, and headphones. That can add another $1000 to the purchase...

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