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#2026834 - 02/04/13 11:06 AM buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound"
Ray Xavier Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 23
Hello everyone,

I have been looking for the best "electronic" acoustic piano sound for the past monds but haven't really found it yet. I just want something that comes really close to the real deal. I have bought EWQL pianos (a VSTi) but I can't use it yet because my old keyboards MIDI is a little bit... let's say it doesn't work as it should be. So I'm going to buy a new keyboard and my price tag is somewhere below 2000 euro's. I want a quality/professional (stage) piano with a really good acoustic piano sound and fine working MIDI. I don't care about anything else except the good "acoustic like" sound and the MIDI soo I guess there are alot of options below 2000 euros. I have taken a look at ROLAND but the acoustic sound is close.. but just "not it" and I'm thinking about going for a YAMAHA again (got a protable grand DGX-620 right now).
Do you guys have any suggestions?

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#2026842 - 02/04/13 11:31 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2345
Loc: UK
Only you know what is the best acoustic sound according to your taste. The basic sounds from Kawai, Roland and Yamaha are different.

Folks on here will send you towards the Roland 700NX Studio Grand, the Kawai MP6, MP10, ES7 and even the older EP3, and Yamaha Pxx or CPxx. Some of the NORD acoustic samples also find favour.

There's not much love here for Casio, except as good value lightweight boards.

Those on here really after an authentic sound though favour Vintage D VST.

You probably need to differentiate further by price, function, keys and weight. Or, what do you really want it for.


Edited by spanishbuddha (02/04/13 11:33 AM)

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#2026885 - 02/04/13 12:29 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
voxpops Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
None of them is a perfect emulation of any existing grand piano. There are always compromises.

If you prefer:
Non-looped decay = Roland SN + Korg Kronos/Krome

88-note sampling = Roland + Kawai MP/ES7 + Korg Kronos/Krome

Choice of emulations = Nord (although Roland RD-700NX, Korg Kronos and Yamaha CP5/1 also offer individually sampled alternatives to their main acoustic sound)

Sophisticated tri-sensor action with simulated let-off = Roland RD-700NX + Kawai ES7

Greater than 4 velocity layers = Korg Kronos/Krome + Studiologic Numa + Yamaha CP1 + (possibly) Nord and Roland

But as spanishbuddha says, only you know what you like.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2026889 - 02/04/13 12:33 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3201
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Choice of emulations = Nord (although Roland RD-700NX, Korg Kronos and Yamaha CP5/1 also offer individually sampled alternatives to their main acoustic sound)

Also, there are numerous additional downloadable different piano samples for Kronos and Yamaha Motif XF... but unlike Nord, you usually have to purchase them separately.

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#2026926 - 02/04/13 01:39 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
zapper Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/13
Posts: 77
get roland's V-Piano nothing compares as far as the feel, touch and sound.

p.s.
2k Euros should get you first installment wink
other then that RD700NX in your price range.

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#2027085 - 02/04/13 07:14 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
RD700NX ....
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2027104 - 02/04/13 07:51 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Dr Popper]
Amaruk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 802
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
RD700NX ....


+1 thumb
_________________________
My piano channel on YouTube: Link

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#2027155 - 02/04/13 10:09 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
jawhitti Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 235
The RD is not bad but the V-Piano blows it away (for 2.5x the price, it better).

The Nord Piano and Stage 2 both have very good reputations too. They don't feel all that authentic but they're good enough for Hiromi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ao3gRYpV6A

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#2027158 - 02/04/13 10:17 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: jawhitti]
36251 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 740
Originally Posted By: jawhitti
The RD is not bad but the V-Piano blows it away (for 2.5x the price, it better).

The Nord Piano and Stage 2 both have very good reputations too. They don't feel all that authentic but they're good enough for Hiromi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ao3gRYpV6A
OT - Hiromi - Amazing and Boring at the same time. That's quite an accomplishment. The only thing missing is her playing the other instruments during that performance.
_________________________
AG N2, CP4, GK MK & MP

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#2027196 - 02/05/13 12:01 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Peter B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 22
Loc: USA
If acoustic piano-like action is important: Kawai MP10

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#2027200 - 02/05/13 12:09 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: jawhitti]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: jawhitti
The RD is not bad but the V-Piano blows it away (for 2.5x the price, it better).




That opinion is quite the minority view ...
The NX studio grand kills the V piano ....
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2027262 - 02/05/13 03:29 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Dr Popper]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5055
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: jawhitti
The RD is not bad but the V-Piano blows it away (for 2.5x the price, it better).




That opinion is quite the minority view ...
The NX studio grand kills the V piano ....


The RD-700NX is certainly one of the best (in fact, probably the best among non-modeled DPs), but if played side-by-side with the V-Piano, there's really no comparison in terms of the sheer 'realism' of the latter's responsiveness to minute changes of articulation and touch of the player, especially at the extremes of dynamics. The more it's pushed, the more you realize just how remarkable the V's simulation of the acoustic grand is.

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#2027269 - 02/05/13 04:45 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: bennevis]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: jawhitti
The RD is not bad but the V-Piano blows it away (for 2.5x the price, it better).




That opinion is quite the minority view ...
The NX studio grand kills the V piano ....


The RD-700NX is certainly one of the best (in fact, probably the best among non-modeled DPs), but if played side-by-side with the V-Piano, there's really no comparison in terms of the sheer 'realism' of the latter's responsiveness to minute changes of articulation and touch of the player, especially at the extremes of dynamics. The more it's pushed, the more you realize just how remarkable the V's simulation of the acoustic grand is.


I had a V ... Got rid of it because of its lack of realism.
I've got a RD700NX .....I've kept it and used it, even recorded it when I could have used a real grand piano and that speaks for itself.
I find it amusing that the only people who defend the V are people who already own one and therefore have a vested interest in their hideously overpriced and under performing instrument.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2027305 - 02/05/13 07:48 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Ray Xavier Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 23
Oke guys, I have found my favourite! Went to a shop today and played a lot of yamaha stage piano's.. None of them really standed out to me and when I went playing on the Nord piano 2.. I was instantly sold. Amazing sound library, a good feel and just a good experience overall. Even all the knobs and buttons felt high quality soo.. I'm almost definitely sure I'm gonna buy that one

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#2027306 - 02/05/13 07:49 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
@Ray

Is weight a point of consideration ? I mean RN700NX or MP10 (even heavier) are fine boards , but you didn't indicate how much weight you wnat to carry around. Otherwise Nord Piano 2 , or Casio PX or the KROME 88 may be interesting as lightweight boards ? Not the top actions, but since you didn't mention top-action as a top-priority I guess that doesn't matter...In terms of best piano sound: KROME88 >= Nord2 > Casio PX-x50

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#2027334 - 02/05/13 09:16 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Ray Xavier Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 23
Oke, I will be more specific.. I want a 88-key stage piano, with fully or graded weighted keys (just a good feel for me, don't really care about the specific specs), amazing piano samples and a below 2500 euro price tag. I don't really care about the weight or all the different synthesizer options and extra sounds. And although with the nord piano 2 I'm also paying for that, for me its: [ Nord 2 > YAMAHA > Roland ] right now, haven't tried any other brand yet..

@JFP I will take a look at the KROME88 wink

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#2027341 - 02/05/13 09:35 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Dr Popper]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5055
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper





I had a V ... Got rid of it because of its lack of realism.
I've got a RD700NX .....I've kept it and used it, even recorded it when I could have used a real grand piano and that speaks for itself.
I find it amusing that the only people who defend the V are people who already own one and therefore have a vested interest in their hideously overpriced and under performing instrument.


It looks as though you don't know any classical musicians who have played and used DPs including the V-Piano. My pop & jazz acquaintances say exactly the same as you do and can't look beyond what they expect a DP to do (not sure what it is they expect, but they equate 'value' with bells and whistles and flashing lights and funny sounds wink ); my classical friends who normally only play acoustics rave about the V-Piano's sheer realism when they play it, and like me, have no interest in any funny sounds.

But as one hack once said, there's no accounting for tastes (not even bad tastes....).

Don't get me wrong; the RD-700NX is a great DP for people like you. It's just not as good as the V-Piano for a pianist.

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#2027444 - 02/05/13 01:14 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
thercman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 126
Loc: Spokane WA, United States
Originally Posted By: Ray Xavier
Oke guys, I have found my favourite! Went to a shop today and played a lot of yamaha stage piano's.. None of them really standed out to me and when I went playing on the Nord piano 2.. I was instantly sold. Amazing sound library, a good feel and just a good experience overall. Even all the knobs and buttons felt high quality soo.. I'm almost definitely sure I'm gonna buy that one


+1

Mine is on its way... grin
_________________________
NP2, Arturia Laboratory 61

Addictive Keys, Kawai EX Pro
Heil PR-40 Mic, Allen & Heath Mixer, Yamaha HS80

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#2027610 - 02/05/13 06:16 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Nigeth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 108
I played a V-Piano today through the monitor setup in Thomann's flagship store at the corporate headquarters which is as high end as it get's probably. I found it to be OK but a bit bland and too close to the sound and feel of the RD700NX considering its price tag.

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#2027634 - 02/05/13 06:48 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
origen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/17/12
Posts: 84
Loc: New Hampshire
I just purchased the RD700NX and couldn't be happier, I find myself using the studio grand sample or pairing it up with my computer and using NI's The Giant, I waited well over a year going to music stores all over and trying just about every dp out there, Im lucky to live in the Boston area so music stores are everywhere up here. Once you get into that 2k range it really seems that the top offers of today are the MP10, Nord Piano 2 and RD700NX, Yamaha is close and rumor has it that they are hard at work at releasing a new sample for future dp's. My experience is one that put the RD700NX on top for 3 reasons.
1. Keyboard action, MP10 and the 700 are excellent, the Nord really doesn't compete
2. Sounds, all three are great, the Nord has the most character (best sounding unless your really being critical), the 700 has the most complete sample all around (resonance, decay, clarity, tone), and the MP10 is a decent sample but doesn't stand out quite like the other 2.
3. MIDI, as far as hooking the 700 up to a pc and using orchestral, piano, choir and synth libraries while retaining the feel of a great keybed and controls, nothing out there compares at this time other than the MP10. Neither have aftertouch but the 700nx allows you to split and layer up to 4 zones if you need them while the MP10 is limited to one, however I like the MP10s wheels vs the 700NX's joystick.
Also you can get one brand new in the US for under 2300 pretty easily, sweetwater will initially quote 2350, Guitar Center will beat that and then sweetwater may beat that price again. Just email them. Best of luck!


Edited by origen (02/06/13 11:48 AM)
_________________________
RD700NX, Komplete 8, NI Maschine

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#2027641 - 02/05/13 06:57 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9088
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
origen, congrats on the purchase of your new RD-700NX! I agree, it's a fantastic board!

May I ask why you felt the Roland is superior to the Kawai in terms of MIDI features? I'm just wondering if there's perhaps something missing from the MP10's interface or connectivity?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2027652 - 02/05/13 07:11 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Kawai James]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Kawai James


May I ask why you felt the Roland is superior to the Kawai in terms of MIDI features? I'm just wondering if there's perhaps something missing from the MP10's interface or connectivity?

Cheers,
James
x


That's a good question because the MP10 is a excellent controller.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2027653 - 02/05/13 07:13 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Amaruk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 802
Loc: New England, USA
Origen,

Congratulations to your new piano!!! I have had my for a year now and I still love it as much as I did the first day I got it! Enjoy!!
_________________________
My piano channel on YouTube: Link

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#2027655 - 02/05/13 07:20 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Dr Popper]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9088
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
That's a good question because the MP10 is a excellent controller.


_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2027659 - 02/05/13 07:29 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Kawai James]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3201
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
May I ask why you felt the Roland is superior to the Kawai in terms of MIDI features? I'm just wondering if there's perhaps something missing from the MP10's interface or connectivity?

Isn't the RD-700NX a full 4-zone controller, i.e. like the MP6, whereas the MP10 is more piano but less controller?

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#2027662 - 02/05/13 07:32 PM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Nigeth]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5055
Originally Posted By: Nigeth
I played a V-Piano today through the monitor setup in Thomann's flagship store at the corporate headquarters which is as high end as it get's probably. I found it to be OK but a bit bland and too close to the sound and feel of the RD700NX considering its price tag.


I certainly agree that the V-Piano's sound lacks impact in its factory default settings. If you get the chance to try it again, try customizing the sound a little (unlike the RD-700NX, you can alter its sound to your heart's content in myriad ways): go to V1 Concert setting, increase the tone color to +2 or +3, increase the string, soundboard and cross-resonances to +50 or so, increase the decay time to +60.

You'll now have resonances and color, as well as truly realistic long sustain (with no looping), which no other DP can offer.

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#2027884 - 02/06/13 05:35 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: anotherscott]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
May I ask why you felt the Roland is superior to the Kawai in terms of MIDI features? I'm just wondering if there's perhaps something missing from the MP10's interface or connectivity?

Isn't the RD-700NX a full 4-zone controller, i.e. like the MP6, whereas the MP10 is more piano but less controller?


Well yes but the MP10 does that too ...easier.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2027888 - 02/06/13 05:56 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Dr Popper]
zapper Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/13
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
May I ask why you felt the Roland is superior to the Kawai in terms of MIDI features? I'm just wondering if there's perhaps something missing from the MP10's interface or connectivity?

Isn't the RD-700NX a full 4-zone controller, i.e. like the MP6, whereas the MP10 is more piano but less controller?


Well yes but the MP10 does that too ...easier.


well my RD700GX midi controller is rather easy and intuitive in use...

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#2027890 - 02/06/13 06:00 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Ray Xavier Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 23
Oke, thanks for the feedback everybody. You guys are making me wonder if I'm gonna go for the Nord piano 2 or the RD 700 NX. I still think I'm going for the Nord right now because I just love the sound library, like the fact that they update it regularly and that you have the possibility to update it for free.... and I'm oke with the keyboard action (reminds me of the DP I have right now). In terms of MIDI, is there really a big difference? I mean I'm planning to connect my "new stage piano" to a (usb) audio interface via a MIDI cable and what happens after that.. NO idea, but can you really hear the difference? I'm not gonna use big orchestral VST instruments soo, I think it's not really that important. (or is it??)
Everybody here is confinsing me that the RD 700 NX is a wonderful instrument (and I believe that) but I must say that when I was playing on the RD 300 NX I didn't really like it. Is it really such a difference between the two? And when you're looking at the piano library's.. does Nord beat Roland? I think Nord>Roland, especially when you look at their grand piano library: http://www.nordkeyboards.com/main.asp?tm...lib=Grand_Piano

Overall the RD 700NX may beat the Nord piano 2 HA88, but for me.. when looking at grand piano samples in the first place and a good MIDI response in the second(doesnt have to be extremely good) is it really the best?

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#2027914 - 02/06/13 07:02 AM Re: buying a stage piano for the best "grand piano sound" [Re: Ray Xavier]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Ray Xavier

Everybody here is confinsing me that the RD 700 NX is a wonderful instrument (and I believe that) but I must say that when I was playing on the RD 300 NX I didn't really like it. Is it really such a difference between the two?


Yeah ... Massive difference in both sound and action between the 300 and 700 but the nord is very good indeed ( excepting the action which is rather poor ) The RD700NX has the best sound and action bundle of any DP and is a full 4 zone Midi controller. The Nord has those fantastic sound libraries, a rather compromised action but is very lightweight and its Midi credentials if they are anything like the Stage 2 should be excellent.
Basically I see your choice as trading the better action and SN piano of the RD for the fantastic flexibility of the Nord library and its light weight. If you find you can live with the Nords action then it should make it easier for you.


Edited by Dr Popper (02/06/13 07:12 AM)
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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