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#2029531 - 02/08/13 09:14 PM Re: Used Shigeru Kawai pricing and general opinions on purchase [Re: Kurtmen]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19228
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Kurtmen
The weight distribution and geometry is very good: Strong up weight very good when playing pp-legatos, also a very high repetition speed rate, precision it is excellent in all regards. Well balanced actions...
Is it possible to explain in a little more detail but in simple terms about some of these points?

1.e.
1. What is weight distribution?
2. What makes one action geometry better than another?
3. Why is strong up weight good in playing pp legato?
4. What is a well balanced action?

Thank you

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#2029557 - 02/08/13 10:24 PM Re: Used Shigeru Kawai pricing and general opinions on purchase [Re: pianoloverus]
Robert 45 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/18/06
Posts: 1199
Loc: Auckland New Zealand
At the risk of being derided by the cognoscente of this forum, I'll give you my understanding of these terms.

Weight distribution: The weight required to depress the key is heaviest in the lowest bass note and is graduated over the entire keyboard to the top note of the piano which needs the lightest weight to depress it.

Action geometry: would refer to the action design in creating the most efficient working of the various levers involved. A longer key is a critical part of action geometry and I note that the newest range of Shigeru Kawai pianos and the Kawai GX pianos have a slightly increased key length which is advantageous.

Good strong up weight for playing pp legato: Up weight is the slight pressure you feel under your fingers when the key rises after it has been played. The up weight allows us to sense and to hear that the key has not been released and its damper has not muted the note. This awareness is critical in playing legato as the sound of the preceding note must very slightly overlap the next note played to attain a good legato.

A well-balanced action: is an action in which all the levers, weights and counter balances work harmoniously together to create a sensation of ease, smoothness and control at all levels of playing.

Kind regards,

Robert.

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#2029649 - 02/09/13 04:13 AM Re: Used Shigeru Kawai pricing and general opinions on purchase [Re: HappyDrone]
HappyDrone Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/02/13
Posts: 12
That sounds like a good explanation but to be honest, I have not consciously noticed myself "sensing" the things you've described and they're not things that I notice.

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#2029862 - 02/09/13 12:15 PM Re: Used Shigeru Kawai pricing and general opinions on purchase [Re: HappyDrone]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14117
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
I have not consciously noticed myself "sensing" the things you've described and they're not things that I notice.


One can "sense" things if and when an action is properly set up, i.e. regulated by someone who's good in his trade.

Even at that point there are individual preferences by different pianists, there's no "one size fits all"

As long as much of the industry keeps selling pianos "out the door" with barely one tuning to it, it's an experience not easily found or - becoming aware of.

Dedicated dealers spend a lot of time on this, making all the difference in the end. It may even be called a "Sale"

Norbert wink
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2029921 - 02/09/13 02:13 PM Re: Used Shigeru Kawai pricing and general opinions on purchase [Re: Norbert]
Robert 45 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/18/06
Posts: 1199
Loc: Auckland New Zealand
Yes, and often it is the negative things about a poorly produced or regulated piano action that we sense first. If the piano action feels too heavy and sluggish and even more frustrating problems like sticking keys can turn us off an instrument instantly.
Conversely, a well regulated piano action on a good piano can transcend the minutiae of those thousands of moving parts and allow the skillful player to feel a complete and perfect connection with the instrument for the transmission of musical expression.

Kind regards,

Robert.

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#2029928 - 02/09/13 02:37 PM Re: Used Shigeru Kawai pricing and general opinions on purchase [Re: HappyDrone]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14117
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
It is still possible that someone prefers the action of one piano over another on a "general" level as may well be the case with Kawai or Shigeru.

Considering that there are dealers who sell these pianos but also offer a number of other high end European makes, the spread must indeed be there. Unless they are using Bosendorfers and Steingraebers to "up-sell" on the other ones. grin

It's great that consumers have so many option on market today and rightfully can feel good about whatever choice they are making.

It's much become a level playing field.

Norbert smile
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2030049 - 02/09/13 08:01 PM Re: Used Shigeru Kawai pricing and general opinions on purchase [Re: HappyDrone]
HappyDrone Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/02/13
Posts: 12
I meant that I have actually never consciously noticed that the higher keys are actually a lighter touch and I have never though about feeling for the upweight while playing.

Anyway they said it comes with the full warranty and the MPA visit, but didn't know or say anything about the conditions it was used in and if it was tuned or not during use. We offered 35k but they've returned 40k again.

I also reread the piano book and I understand now that a fair price for a new 2010 SK6 would be around 45k, but I still think that a good conditioned used SK6 should receive more than a ~10% discount off the new price for two years of use.
I know that it may be different but I think the used Steinways value dropped about 10% per year of use for the first few anyway.

Also how would I look for technicians in my area that are impartial and have some experience with Shigerus?


Edited by HappyDrone (02/09/13 08:13 PM)

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#2030830 - 02/10/13 10:39 PM Re: Used Shigeru Kawai pricing and general opinions on purchase [Re: HappyDrone]
LFL Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/12
Posts: 69
The ptg.com website (registered piano technicians) can help. If you let us know roughly where you live, specific recommendations from the members of the forum can be forthcoming.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5L

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#2031385 - 02/11/13 05:24 PM Re: Used Shigeru Kawai pricing and general opinions on purchase [Re: HappyDrone]
HappyDrone Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/02/13
Posts: 12
Thanks for the replies.
I'm in Utah, near the Salt Lake City area.

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#2031533 - 02/11/13 11:18 PM Re: Used Shigeru Kawai pricing and general opinions on purchase [Re: HappyDrone]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14117
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Try Rick Baldassin

http://www.baldassinpianos.com/

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2031645 - 02/12/13 05:40 AM Re: Used Shigeru Kawai pricing and general opinions on purchase [Re: HappyDrone]
HappyDrone Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/02/13
Posts: 12
But he's the Schimmel dealer that we've been dealing with as well.
I'm not sure it's such a good idea considering that the Schimmel is just behind the Shigeru on our preference list and he knows that.

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#2031775 - 02/12/13 11:27 AM Re: Used Shigeru Kawai pricing and general opinions on purchase [Re: HappyDrone]
Robert 45 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/18/06
Posts: 1199
Loc: Auckland New Zealand
You could request information by PM from KawaiDon who is a Kawai representative and a highly respected piano tuner-technician. He is also an active member on Piano World, especially in all matters relating to Kawai pianos.

Kind regards,

Robert.

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