Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
Who's Online
111 registered (Anita Potter, 36251, angga888, ando, 36 invisible), 1467 Guests and 12 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Topic Options
#2027637 - 02/05/13 06:50 PM Scarlatti Trills
Kreklewetz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/01/07
Posts: 17
Loc: Montreal
I know this has been asked before, but there wasn’t a lot of consensus as to what the answer was and I haven’t been able to find anything conclusive online, so I’m asking anyways.

I’ve been looking at some fairly easy Scarlatti pieces and am having a hard time realizing the trills. I’ve always been perfectly comfortable doing the usual start-on-the-auxiliary-note approach for guys like Bach, Mozart and even Beethoven, yet with Scarlatti there seems to be a dilemma. Most of what I’ve read on the topic has somewhat aggressively proscribed always starting on the auxiliary note and implied that the principle-note trill is some sort of 19th-century-spawned plague that needs to be wiped out of existence. Yet while looking at a certain simple Sonatina (K 34), my edition (Henle) does not show realizations for the trills, but has fingerings which strongly imply a principle-note execution. Furthermore, the recordings I’ve found unambiguously do trill this way and it seems to fit musically. At first I thought maybe Scarlatti is some bizarre exception to the rule, but in almost every instance I’ve found of someone asking about this online the answer is the formula: Scarlatti = Baroque = auxiliary-note-trill (which is itself contradictory with the frequent insistence that the application of auxiliary-note trills be applied for the classical period as well). This is a strange case of what everyone says you’re supposed to do being one thing, and what everyone actually does (as far as I’ve seen) being the exact opposite.

Has anyone else had this problem? If so, what did you choose to do?

Top
Ad 800 (Pearl River)
Pearl River World's Best Selling Piano
#2027682 - 02/05/13 08:18 PM Re: Scarlatti Trills [Re: Kreklewetz]
gooddog Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4841
Loc: Seattle area, WA
In general, trills in Scarlatti's time started on the auxiliary note but if, in your opinion, it sounds better on the principal note, then by all means, play it that way. (Oh, and if the note preceding the trill is on the auxiliary note, then start on the principal note.) It wasn't until modern times that it became fashionable to stick to the score. Back then, a certain amount of improvisation was expected. Go with what your ears tell you.
_________________________
Best regards,

Deborah

Top
#2027693 - 02/05/13 08:38 PM Re: Scarlatti Trills [Re: Kreklewetz]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21923
Loc: Oakland
My favorite quote on the subject, and I do not remember who said it, said that treatises about music at the time said that trills start on the auxiliary note so often that it must have been almost universal practice not to!
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#2027721 - 02/05/13 09:09 PM Re: Scarlatti Trills [Re: Kreklewetz]
Kreklewetz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/01/07
Posts: 17
Loc: Montreal
Oh. I feel a little silly now. In this particular sonatina each note preceding the trill was the auxiliary note of the trill. However, now I realize I’ve been blissfully not following that exception in various Bach pieces – that is, playing the trill on the auxiliary note even when it was also the previous note – and it didn’t feel as awkward to do so. Weird. I’m half tempted to go back and “fix” my Bach pieces in those situations now, but probably won’t bother since I’ve gotten comfortable with them and I doubt anyone who hears me would even notice or care that much. I guess I’ll just go with the vague “do what feels right” approach even though it bugs me a bit when it seems like there’s no super-definitive correct way to do something.

Top
#2027777 - 02/06/13 12:02 AM Re: Scarlatti Trills [Re: Kreklewetz]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 821
Loc: Finland
Scarlatti is one composer who seemed to go both with the conventions and against the conventions of his times and this makes it sometimes difficult for scholars to agree on what he meant. His music is full of small "oddities" that some editors felt the need to be corrected. In his times the execution of ornaments was a combination of the performers skill/experience and the composers notation and we simply do not know enough to know what he meant sometimes. I would do the general baroque convention, but also apply my own judgment, while still taking into account that if something sounds a bit odd in Scarlatti it may be exactly what he meant it to sound smile

Top

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
Christmas Header
Christmas Lights at Piano World Headquarters in Maine 2014
-------------------
The December Free Piano Newsletter
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Veritune and rescaling
by kennyz
12/21/14 09:29 AM
Never thought it would end up at that instrument ...
by fatast
12/21/14 05:45 AM
Is Yelp reliable for evaluating piano stores?
by Le Chiffre
12/21/14 02:08 AM
Guide to Teaching
by Arghhh
12/21/14 12:39 AM
Making a New York Steinway sound like a Hamburg Steinway
by nphase
12/20/14 10:24 PM
Forum Stats
77375 Members
42 Forums
160033 Topics
2350129 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission