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Hello and you stated that a prescription to calm the anxious performer could help and I agree from experience. You are not talking long term addiction just to change the fear into relaxation with medication changing the behavior on the short term. When I became a college student for the first time in my 30's I was so anxious before the first exam and I took a small glass of wine to relax with dinner an hour before the exam. It worked I was so relaxed that I made a 97. I never had to drink wine again before an exam. It got me over the hump as you stated. Sandra M

You not giving up and looking over and considering all options from us posted in your behalf at Piano World. I admire your powerful positive spirit. Sandra M

Lots of good stuff here!

This hits the nail on the head exactly.


Unfortunately I'm not so lucky (?) as I get just as nervous playing for Grandma as I do for a room full of professors, but I do relate with the "paying attention" bit. A few weeks ago when I was practicing an office aide came in to organize music. I decided to use it as an opportunity to test myself and see if I could keep it together while practicing. I was completely fine until a moment where in some way or another I began to think about whether or not she was listening—and not only if she was listening, but what she thought if the piece itself, since it is somewhat unorthodox and dissonant and as a vocalist she had probably never heard it before (Scriabin op.53). In that instant, things immediately began to go wrong and I eventually had to stop and pull out the music. So what was going on in my head actually seems to be two separate inner dialogues—one that doubts I can play a piece, and another that doubts whether the audience would even like it to begin with. The latter probably comes from my years of feeling awkward and being teased in school about listening to classical music and not popular music. To this day if I put on a recording of a classical work while knowingly in earshot of someone else who knows nothing about classical music, my perception of the music changes instantly and I become fixated on what they think of it, usually convincing myself that they probably don't like it.


Well I'm not sure that statistic is accurate, but flattering nonetheless. And unfortunately my laptop met it's untimely demise a year ago and I have been unable to replace it as yet, so even if I wanted to upload a new recording, I couldn't at the moment. Anyone is welcome to view the small collection of recordings I have on my YouTube channel —As someone just brought to my attention, several of my recordings have (unwarrented) copyright claims against them by EMI and other labels and have either been taken down or are in the process of being removed. I'm getting really sick of this obsession we have with copyrights and patents in this country...but this is a different rant for a different time and place.

For me, playing the piano for others requires a strange combination of intense concentration combined with relaxed letting go of thoughts. The thoughts and dialogs going on in your head sound familiar and are, apparently in both of our experiences, in conflict with performance capability.

I have not studied this thread in depth, so forgive me if I repeat something that was discussed up thread. It would appear to me that you would profit from some kind of practice (not piano practice) such as Zen Buddhism or meditation, perhaps combined with therapy to help you address some of the mentioned unresolved issues, that will empower you to quickly recognize when such counter-productive, interfering thoughts arise within you, allow yourself to name them and then to immediately let them go and then to proceed to lever leave or return to your concentrated but let loose play. Also, focusing on the sound coming out of the piano to the exclusion of all else can be helpful in silencing your internal chatter.

Best of luck to you!

I was exposed to this at an early age, when I went to a boarding school. In a dormitory of twelve boys, I'd play BBC Radio 3 on my radio-cassette recorder: Beethoven symphonies and piano sonatas, Handel's Messiah (yes, all three hours of it... ) etc, while the others had Radio 1's 'Top of the Pops' on their radios. I grew a very thick skin, but the other boys knew I was shy (and probably weird) anyway, and while they were displaying trophies from rugby matches, I was displaying trophies from junior chess tournaments, and spending all my free time playing piano in the Music Department's practice rooms, or in singing practice with the school's Chapel Choir.

Conditioning from childhood definitely helps in this.....

Maybe if I had to give piano recitals to staff and pupils while in school, I wouldn't be suffering from performance anxiety of any sort now - or maybe my nerves would be even worse? Who knows?

OK, I visited your YouTube page. As for the copyright claims at least they are not visible to viewers like me, I didn't notice anything at all. But that is another story.

Anyway, I SAW you playing the Chopin Ballade (last year's video) . I can say that you are stiff. The shoulders, arms, hands, fingers, upper body etc. You try to relax but actually that only seem to distract your concentration, but not a true relaxation occurs.

Therefore, my first advice would be that you consult with your mentors about this state of being relaxed. If necessary attend some Alexander Technique sessions.

Secondly, VIDEO RECORD as much of your performances, practicing sessions etc. But, play simpler pieces (really simple pieces) and watch your self later. See if you are doing unnecessary head/body movements that distract your concentration. If so just try to be as focused as you can but in a very relaxed state as well. That is, you will be conscious of what you are doing in every second of your performance. But your shoulders, arms, wrists, hands all will be very relaxed.

With all due respect, I take all advice to change my technique with a grain a salt. Of all the pianists I've met, especially at my current school, (just this semester three people have had to cease their studies due to strain issues) I'm one of the few people I know who has never had any problems with tendonitis, carpal tunnel, back problems, or even noticable physical fatigue (I don't ever feel physically "stiff")—and I also practice much longer than anyone else I've met. That's not to brag or boast or anything, I'm just saying that whatever I'm doing seems to be working for me; I've always been able to play anything I wanted to and never experienced any physical discomfort or strain. You're not the first to comment on this though—my teacher at first assumed I was trying to consciously imitate Horowitz and was angry. Now he realizes it just is how I play and it works for me and has never been an issue since. The performance anxiety problem is something different entirely; in fact, when I begin to panic during a performance I feel as if I am too physically relaxed if anything and no longer have rigid enough motor control—like trying to play with wet noodles.


This is part of the reason why I usually remove the visual feed from my recordings—the issue of body movement and "histrionics" in performance is a touchy subject, and people love to criticize it and tell you how stupid you look. All I can simply attest to is the fact though that any body movements are completely unconscious, and in fact I often am the most physically active with my body when I am completely focused and "in" the music. Thus, it is not a distraction to my playing but rather a symptom of deep concentration. My best performances and recordings all share this in common—a friend of mine used to describe it like a trance I would go into. I have all sorts of amusing anecdotes about it—in a video of one performance there was a very loud crash in the middle of the performance, as someone had actually broken their chair, however I don't recall ever hearing it, and was totally unfazed by it in the recording. In another instance, my dad was actually guilty of leaning on a switch in the classroom the competition was in, turning out the lights for part of the room—again, I was none the wiser. This "trance-like" state is becoming more and more difficult or altogether impossible for me to achieve during performance nowadays as I am so uncomfortably aware of my body, my racing pulse, my involuntary shaking, and my nervous thoughts.

It was just my 2 cents of advice.

Whatever.
Good luck.

Sorry, i was just responding, i.e. having a discussion. Didn't mean for you to take it personally. I appreciate all the comments and advice, as this is obviously not just an issue for me, but other people as well, so even what might not be true or work for me might help someone else.

Hi Vasilievich

You might want to read about Kava Kava and about GABA

-Bolt

Also, you didn't say if you drink coffee, espresso or caffeine tea, but if you do you might want to give that up or avoid them in the hours before a performance.

-Bolt

I would have to agree that the body movements or the stiffness that Hakki is referring to most likely has nothing to do with the problem. Performance anxiety is not a physical issue, it is a mental one with physical symptoms. By addressing only possible physical symptoms (i.e., telling someone to just "relax") you're not going to really help the issue.

Vasilievich, I believe this trance-like state may be a part of the problem, actually, depending on what exactly it is. Here's my thoughts: you say this trance-like state allows you to play through all sorts of serious distractions without even realizing it.

My question is: during this trance-like state, where is your mind? Are you so engrossed in the music, being musical, being in the moment, sharing this beautiful music with the audience, that you don't notice these things? Or is it more like auto-pilot, out-of-body experience, where you really aren't thinking anything at all? If it is the former, then yes, then I agree you need to return to that. If the latter, however, that is most likely the opposite extreme of the same problem. If your mind is not communicating and thinking about the music itself, then it will tend to wander and most likely start thinking about everything but the music.

Now if in fact the "trance-like" state is completely engrossed in the music, then you will have to discipline your mind - a very un-trancelike thing to do - to think about the music. Force it to stay focused, bring it back on the music when you notice it's gone elsewhere. You may eventually be able to achieve this trance-like state again, but then again it may be replaced by this more active mind that is purposefully thinking about the music. Not entirely a bad thing.

Morodiene:
You are actually saying the same thing in a couple paragraphs instead of my single sentence.

Very interesting! And yet, I'm not not entirely sure how to respond—if it at all makes sense, my experience seems to be a combination of both scenarios. I would agree that there is a certain element of "out of body experience" to it, as I am not thinking about my hands, fingerings, the keys, my body or even specific notes or articulation. I am not completely removed from what is going on though, and am "feeling" the music in a more abstract sense in terms of ideas, emotions, character, etc. It is similar to the state of mind I feel when improvising, and why I enjoy improvising so much—aside from the occasional thought in terms of a specific chord or harmony, I am not focused at all on the physical production of the notes, only the aural result and going after a certain mood or idea. For some reason it is becoming harder and harder for me to get in this frame of mind when performing other composers works—I become fixated on the physical and mental elements of playing the notes versus the larger musical picture.

FWIW --

I asked a friend of mine (a psychologist, practicing "cognitive behavioral therapy", which is a pretty well-respected discipline), to look over this thread.

His response:

. . . "Yes, he likely has an “anxiety disorder” (not uncommon)
. . . which in the hands of a good CBT therapist is eminently treatable."

It sounds like Vasilievich has done all the "common-sense" stuff, or has good reasons for _not_ doing it. So that leaves two unexplored alternatives:

. . . psychotherapy (CBT, in particular), or

. . . beta-blockers (which are widely used by performing musicians).

I suspect one (or both) of them will work.

. Charles

Wow, thanks for that. I will definitely be researching some of the things that have come up in this thread, like CBT, beta blockers and meditation/altered awareness.

I've struggled with this long and hard. I very much share your frustration of hours spent reading blogs and books that prescribe things like positive self talk, visualization, deep breathing, centering, etc...... but end up not working at all. A person's psyche is too nuanced and complex to be subjected to such general, assuming, and - for lack of a better word - lame treatments. By that end I've found the only way one can deal with such problems is by repeating the problem (i.e. performing in this case) ad naeseum, (even if you fail each time), until by a combination of so many experiences and your own intellectual perception, solutions begin to slowly emerge.

Here are some thoughts:

1.) From what you describe, it seems that your teachers is possibly THE reason for all of this. I recall from a while back that you are new to music study in college (your undergrad degree was in something else..). I don't know the details of your situation, but if this is the first real, college level relationship-experience with a piano professor and it's been bad since the outset - that can have a ridiculously large impact on your mental well being. Weekly meetings with a teacher who is unsupportive, impatient, or not tuned into the nature of your own problems and intellect - leaving you depressed for the rest of the day - is toxic. I know; I've been there. Try to play for another teacher in secret, if you can. Life is too short to spend with assholes.

2.) In my opinion, there is no shame in using drugs. I've had periods where I routinely took beta blockers or xanax before performances. They're no silver bullet, but they do really get rid of your PHYSICAL symptoms. (heart racing, shaking, sweaty hands, etc.). Some will say they take the "edge" of your playing and make it boring, but in my experience that does not happen.

3.) Nor is there shame in using psychotherapy. Arrau, Watts, Curzon, and Backahus (I think) all suffered from such debilitating stage fright at certain points in they careers that they sought out psychological help. (Arrau, in particular, SWORE by psychoanalysis and recommends it as the only real solution for pianists with this problem. Joseph Horowitz's book "Conversations with Arrau", may be of interest to you).

4.) Probably the most important thing: Keep performing! I know this is exactly what you are sick to death of hearing, but just keep doing it - and even more if you can. If you have only been a music major for two years, I am going to assume that you have only really been performing in serious, professional (read intimidating) settings regularly for two years - which really is not that long in the grand scheme of things. Some things take years, even decades, to truly resolve.

Now, as a last point - when you say you "perform a lot, and often", how much of this performing is a REPEAT PERFORMANCE OF THE SAME PIECE? For myself, I find my nerves have less to do with how often I'm stage, but more about WHAT I'M PLAYING AND MY EMOTIONAL/MENTAL HISTORY OF SUCCESS WITH THAT PIECE AND THE PASSAGES IN IT. You may perform twice a week, but if you are playing different things every time (chamber, camp, then solo, etc)...you aren't gonna actually solve your problem.
I would say for a truly successful performance, you need to have no less than 5 acceptable performances of that same piece in your past. Any less, and you really haven't gotten it out of your system on stage. There is a famous concert pianist and teacher in New York who has a similar problem: even when he knows the piece really well, he simply blanks out whenever he plays it in front of people. Even his wife. His strategy: to play the same piece(s) for no less than 10 people in no more than two weeks..starting with his wife and increasingly getting more serious. When he's reached the magic number 10, he will have enough positive backlogging to carry out a successful performance onstage in the recital, when it really counts.

Success begets Success.

OK. I do not focus on the physical except to bring my mind back to a trouble spot in a passage. But for the most part, then I agree, you should be focused on the musical aspects, the sound you want to make, the emotion, etc.

I suspect that the way your teacher is teaching you (let alone the whole lack of respect thing) is going against this instinct of yours. Is he perhaps more of a technician and less musical in his own playing by any chance?

To the question over being a "technician," yes, my teacher is an extremely technical performer and educator and I have never heard even the slightest error at any concert. We also spend a lot of time in lessons with him sight reading slowly through my music after I play it and often focusing mainly on my fingerings and changing them. I guess it's not surprising that I would become preoccupied with this during performance when we focus on this so often in my lessons.

I do think that is possibly a part of the problem. Performance anxiety is a complex issue and there's usually not one root cause, but unraveling the various possible causes is helpful.

If your teacher is more of a technician and that is what he focuses on in lessons, that becomes what you focus on in your performance. Nothing wrong with technique, but when it comes time to perform, no one wants to hear technical perfection. It is a means to an end, and the end is to communicate to the audience whatever it is you have to say through the composer's works.

IMO, it sounds as though this teacher has negated and neglected your "voice" in the process of learning his technique. That is not to say that technical work is bad, and perhaps it was much needed. There is only so much time in lessons, so sometimes teachers have to pick and choose (I'm deciding to be optimistic about your teacher as I really can't know his motives, nor do I need to). However, you as the performer, need to stay true to yourself and recognize that just because your teacher isn't helping you in that area doesn't mean you shouldn't be adding that in when you perform. If he is actually telling you not to do certain musical things when you play for him, then you will have to decide if you just want to leave those out when you play for him, but when you perform, you perform for your audience.

I think in your particular case, you will need to remind yourself that you were encouraged to become a music major because of how you touched your audience in your playing before. If you can make people feel something, that gives validity to everything that you have to say through your music, regardless of the implicit or explicit opinions from supposed professionals.

In the end, YOU are responsible for how you play for your audience, not your teacher. And by leaving out this part of you, as you can see, it has disastrous effects. You are obviously a very sensitive person, which makes you perfect for performing, but you do have to become a bit more thick-skinned when it comes to those who criticize you harshly. Remember, it's only a person's opinion, and your opinion is just as valid.