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#2027668 - 02/05/13 07:39 PM RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX
zapper Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/13
Posts: 77
Hi,
I just upgraded my RD700GX with SN Kit and I'm not sure
if the result is the same as SN in RD700NX. Let say
I don't see that much of a difference in piano sound comparing to what I have had already. Anybody here put that SN PinoKit into GX?
thanks

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#2028023 - 02/06/13 11:19 AM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: zapper]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4343
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: zapper
Let say I don't see that much of a difference in piano sound comparing to what I have had already.

They evidently used the same sampling sessions for both SN and non-SN, which can lead to some confusion. There was a RD-700GX YouTube video when the SN expansion card first came out where a guy played identical parts of songs with both SN and non-SN. To the casual listener there was almost no difference, heck I could barely hear any difference via good headphones, but the songs he picked probably weren't the best to showcase the benefits of SN. IMO SN really shines on slow intimate pieces, single sustained noted, etc.

Ah, here it is:


Edited by dewster (02/06/13 11:22 AM)
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The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#2028037 - 02/06/13 11:42 AM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: zapper]
pianomike Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 59
I,ve got the nx sound chip or card in my gx,I think the piano sound is better in the nx than with the sound card in the gx but not by much. The superior grand and ultimate grand pianos that come with the gx are allmost as good and to some people just as good as the nx piano sounds, having said that to me the action on the gx is better than the nx, the only problem is that it bottoms out to hard.The best sounding nx sound I have heard off the computer is on the new rd 64 from roland, maybe because there are not alot of sounds to take power from the sound engine if that is possible,the only thing Im wondering about is the action,on the demos it looked like they were banging the crap out of the piano.

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#2028046 - 02/06/13 12:03 PM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: pianomike]
zapper Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/13
Posts: 77
thanks for posting video Dewster. To be honest Expressive Ground sounds better to me then Super Natural - maybe it's required to adjust or set all parameters of SN in piano designer???

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#2028157 - 02/06/13 02:49 PM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: zapper]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2395
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Expressive Grand is really unpleasant in my view. Roland didn't use it on any other DP. I had the GX and upgraded it with the SN expansion board. You have to immerse yourself in it to really appreciate what Roland have done with SN. There are subtleties that are not immediately apparent. Just as Dewster says, it is the slow, intimate pieces that allow SN to shine.

All that said you still have to like the underlying tonality of the piano. In my opinion almost all the SN voices are based on the Superior Grand sound which in its original state (pre SN) was a really good sounding darkish Steinway but blighted with the usual DP defects such as looping and audible velocity layers. Something went wrong with the SN implementation only insofar as a cluster of notes in the mid-range react differently to higher velocities - it doesn't seem to bother most users but it was a deal-breaker for me and the reason I got rid of my GX. But the SN benefits of no looping and smooth velocity transitions are very impressive - still state-of-the-art for hardware DPs.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2028245 - 02/06/13 05:09 PM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: zapper]
dje31 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 218
Somebody---probably Zac, as I think he had a GX with the SN upgrade way back when, pre-Nord---probably knows the specifics, and I'm too lazy to look it up right now. But if expandability matters to you, the expansion slots were removed on the NX.

You can put the SN board in the GX, and I think there's still at least one more open slot, but I may be totally wrong on this. You can still get the other SRX exp boards, which may be helpful if you're gigging and only want to schlep one board with you.

EDIT: I'm apparently also too lazy to realize you already have one, and upgraded...still, the NX definitely doesn't have expansion slots anymore...of that I'm sure.


Edited by dje31 (02/06/13 08:42 PM)
_________________________
Yamaha CP33 | Roland XP-30

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#2028317 - 02/06/13 07:14 PM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: zapper]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4343
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: zapper
thanks for posting video Dewster. To be honest Expressive Ground sounds better to me then Super Natural - maybe it's required to adjust or set all parameters of SN in piano designer???

Listening to that video now it seems like the audio really isn't the best to showcase what SN is capable of.

My advice would be to pick the cleanest & simplest sounding base piano voice on the expansion card (not necessarily the main one - on our NX it's the "Studio Grand") then turn off the reverb and any other effects, and turn the sympathetic resonance effects WAY up, particularly the pedal resonance. Play some slow stuff. It can sound quite detailed, dynamic, and fairly realistic (certainly more realistic than any looper out there IMO). Pedaling events sound fairly real to me too (in terms of how the strings react).
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#2028322 - 02/06/13 07:26 PM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: zapper]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1424
The sound is almost identical. I owned both at the same time, had both set up next to each other and ended up packing up the NX as it wasn't worth upgrading. The NX didn't drop notes quite as bad as the GXF, and the 3rd sensor is welcomed in the PHA III action vs the PHA II in the GXF. But they feel identical and the sound is all but the same. I do miss my GXF. For a stay-at-home slab DP, the RD-700 GXF/NX and Kawai MP10 are the best out there IMHO.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#2028388 - 02/06/13 09:17 PM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: zapper]
offnote Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/10/10
Posts: 258
Loc: Banned
Well, roland knows how to sell same thing twice in different package....

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#2028389 - 02/06/13 09:21 PM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: offnote]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9153
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: offnote
Well, roland knows how to sell same thing twice in different package....


Not really, as Zachary notes above: the original GX utilises the PHAII action, while the NX features the latest PHAIII action. There are a number of other improvements to the NX - GX users were given the choice of upgrading their existing board with SuperNatural sound, or purchasing a brand new instrument. Personally, I think this was a highly commendable move from Roland.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2028527 - 02/07/13 03:34 AM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: Kawai James]
zapper Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/13
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: Kawai James

Not really, as Zachary notes above: the original GX utilises the PHAII action, while the NX features the latest PHAIII action. There are a number of other improvements to the NX - GX users were given the choice of upgrading their existing board with SuperNatural sound, or purchasing a brand new instrument. Personally, I think this was a highly commendable move from Roland.

Cheers,
James
x


really? taking away SRX slots is improvement?

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#2028529 - 02/07/13 03:43 AM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: zapper]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1685
Loc: Portugal
Is there anything to put in the slots that will improve the NX? Are SRX slots 'universal' - might there be new expansions on the horizon?
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2028555 - 02/07/13 05:42 AM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: toddy]
zapper Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/13
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: toddy
Is there anything to put in the slots that will improve the NX?


you could put one or two of those if NX had a SRX slot.


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#2028622 - 02/07/13 09:05 AM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: zapper]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1685
Loc: Portugal
Ah, so the answer is clearly, 'yes'...thanks for the information. But is this an exclusively Roland system?
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2028664 - 02/07/13 10:20 AM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: zapper]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
The NX has no slots and requires no improvement really... It's about as good as it gets
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2028729 - 02/07/13 12:29 PM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: Dr Popper]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4343
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
The NX has no slots and requires no improvement really... It's about as good as it gets

It doesn't need no stinkin' slots for lame SRX samples, that's for sure!

It could use more SN sounds though: harpsichord, pipe organ, drums, harp, strings, brass - I guess I'm largely describing the Jupiter (but with hammer action keys). An all SN stage DP would be awesome!
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#2028735 - 02/07/13 12:40 PM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: zapper]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1685
Loc: Portugal
Why do the SRX slots stink?
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2028751 - 02/07/13 01:08 PM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: toddy]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4343
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: toddy
Why do the SRX slots stink?

Guessing, but probably too few address lines to fit good sized samples on them. Which directly causes the SRX sample sets to stink. Rickety old school crap compared to SN, good riddance.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#2028980 - 02/07/13 08:12 PM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: Dr Popper]
offnote Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/10/10
Posts: 258
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
The NX has no slots and requires no improvement really... It's about as good as it gets


Really? I don't think so, V-piano is a class better so there is room obviously for improvement.

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#2028988 - 02/07/13 08:26 PM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: offnote]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: offnote
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
The NX has no slots and requires no improvement really... It's about as good as it gets


Really? I don't think so, V-piano is a class better so there is room obviously for improvement.


The V is massively overpriced ... and its piano not as good as the RD
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2029127 - 02/08/13 03:18 AM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: Dr Popper]
offnote Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/10/10
Posts: 258
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
...and its piano not as good as the RD


You wish, I assume you are joking....

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#2029417 - 02/08/13 05:19 PM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: zapper]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2395
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
He isn't joking. And I think he's absolutely right.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2029486 - 02/08/13 07:55 PM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: zapper]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
Me too. V piano's a fun idea and for a modeled piano it's an impressive implementation but it doesn't sound as natural/realistic as the RD to me. Of course, I've only listened to recordings, never played it.

I don't agree that the RD is as good as it can be, but it's pretty good for a hardware piano.


Edited by gvfarns (02/08/13 07:57 PM)

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#2029543 - 02/08/13 09:42 PM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: gvfarns]
torhu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 181
It would help if they fixed the Concert Grand sound (as it's generally much richer than the Studio Grand sound, the bass register is amazing). And made it less of a health risk to carry by yourself, of course.
_________________________
Roland RD-700NX // Galaxy Vintage D

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#2029597 - 02/09/13 12:30 AM Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX [Re: torhu]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
It is richer. That's why that A/Ab (+5 & 6th above middle C) metallic clank/buzz noise bugs the heck out of me. If I want to get a 700NX, it would be for the fuller, richer Concert Grand, not the Studio Grand, which doesn't have the *clank*.

Hopefully in the fall they'll update and fix that. In spite of the weight I would buy one if they did. It's a really nice sound for a dp.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP4, CP5 (home use) , RCF TT08A, TT22A speakers

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