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Originally Posted by Gigantoad
The law seems to accept these blatant lies as valid marketing practices.


This is true.. The law allows marketers/sales people to say something like "this product is the best of all X products".. If they lie about something factual like 3 sensor action versus 2 sensor, than that is a different story and illegal.

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I get where you are coming from and I don't want to get too deep into the history and technicalities.

It's just that I disagree with the sweeping statement that only a real acoustic piano can reproduce the intricacies and details of a composition and DPs can't.

It fails to take into account that most performances today use an instrument that is somewhat removed and changed from historical instruments of the respective time periods. That alone makes most performances a more or less accurate reproduction of the original.

So if I hold digitals to that ideal (can't be used for serious and accurate reproduction of compositions because of their technical shortcomings) then I'd have to hold acoustics to the same ideal.

Then not any piano would do (even if its masterfully crafted) but only an original reproduction of an instrument of that era. Just like people still buy original Rhodes pianos and Hammonds they'd need different instruments to accurately reproduce compositions of certain time periods.

HI performers do that and it can be eye opening to hear a composition you know by heart in a completely new way.

It just irks me that some people always assume that a piano accurately renders any composition from any time period as if the instrument had not fundamentally changed multiple times throughout its history.

Bach who only knew Silbermann and Cristofori pianos would probably not eben recognise a modern grand.

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I'll do some "sweeping". No digital piano can match the sound of an acoustic. Period.

You just have to trade fine piano sound (acoustic) for low-cost, low-maintenance, private-listening (digital).

Take your pick. You cannot have both.

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Originally Posted by Nigeth


Even if I had the money and space I probably wouldn't consider buying a grand piano.

It takes up a lot of space, it has to be maintained properly which adds to the cost of ownership it isn't in the least portable and you only get one kind of sound.

It's the real deal, yes but taking your point farther I'd need a whole bunch of instruments to even come close to the kind of versatility a Nord Stage 2 or a good controller plus PC offers.

I'd need several Bösendorfers, Blüthners, Steinways and several uprights, I'd need several Rhodes and Wurlitzer Electric Pianos a few hammonds and a whole zoo of analog monophonic and polyphonic synths.

If I wanted the original undiluted sound and the real experience I'd have to build a whole museum just to hold all of the stuff.

One Piano is simply not enough if you really stand behind your argument about reality and the feel of the original.



Ahhh yes, but you contradict your own argument. Logistics and money truly mean there are no obstacles. So, where you say "cost of ownership"... well, that's irrelevant. I come back to my point. If you needed a Bosie, you'd have one. I'd record that over a Nord sampled Bosie. See my point.

Don't worry, I'm with you. I get the tech argument. I have a hugely digital studio. I don't record my own grand at recording sessions. Neither does Quincy Jones. I watched a vid of him recording Imagine for an album a few years ago and he used a sampled piano. It sounded brilliant (and always stayed in tune).

As you read my post, I believe DPs are democratizing expensive instruments. They don't replace their spirit. I'd come back to the point that if you truly had zero obstacles, you'd love to wander through a 'museum' of vintage and authentic instruments and play them at will. If not, well, ok... I'd just rather drink the real wine than chemically altered Kool Aid. Just me. I don't discount the fact that even some of the best pianists I know couldn't afford a grand. I also have economic and logistic constraints, like most folks in the world. So, accordingly there's not a 500 series Benz in the piano room. It's more like a 3 series BMW, sporty and fun.

AND, I'd much rather play my AP at a dinner party where my walls become the speaker system wink Nothing digital thrown out of a speaker can replicate sitting behind my grand filling my home with music ...with a nice glass of red for good measure.

Last edited by RBMusik; 02/08/13 03:28 PM.

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"As you read my post, I believe DPs are democratizing expensive instruments. They don't replace their spirit."

The spirit comes from the person, not the instrument, in my opinion . . .I don`t think you`ll find much stuff on Youtube sounding better on an acoustic than on a digital, althouh there is some good playing out there.

To be honest, I have some CDs of classical piano music, which now sound lacking. Poor recording quality? I think not.


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Some of those statements made no sense to me whatsoever. YouTube videos as some kind of gold audio standard? CDs and recordings dont replace live venues. Digitals are better than authentic instruments? Bah. We'll just agree to disagree my friend. Call me when they place a DP in front of the philharmonic.


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Originally Posted by peterws


I think we know this is not true. So can one reasonably expect, having bought such a machine, to return it to the shop as "not fit for purpose" as a result, if we feel inclined to do so? Even say, 6 months after purchase?

I think so . . . if you`re prepared to fight.


Let us know how that works out for you.

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peterws Offline OP
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My question was hypothetical only. I`m fairly happy with what I`ve got . . .


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Some of my favorite advertising slogans are "painfully sampled"- yes, from a manufacturer that strech tunes! 30 samples over 88 keys!!!

I am now deciding that I am not using specs anymore for purchases. It is too easy to get caught up in the hype these days.

When I purchased my Fatar controller in 1997 it was based strictly on getting a 88 keybed for the first time.

I played strictly an acoustic for the first 17 years, and now for the last 15 a digital 99% of the time.

It will never be the same, but it can still be good if you like what you are playing.


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Originally Posted by peterws
All too often the manufacturers in particular overgild the lily when it comes to product description. And never more than when expounding the playing action as akin to a Concert Grand. The real feel etc. etc . .

I think we know this is not true. So can one reasonably expect, having bought such a machine, to return it to the shop as "not fit for purpose" as a result, if we feel inclined to do so? Even say, 6 months after purchase?

I think so . . . if you`re prepared to fight.


-I did return a few things past a return period not really on hype but due to the fact that they did not deliver as advertised. I try to read people's Amazon reviews as you get a diverse mix of beginners and people who have been playing longer.


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That's a great idea. Although I got sucked in by the Casio hype so much, including here that I went out and tried one. It wasn't anywhere close to matching all the hype. I think at the end of the day when you have an overwhelming chorus of budget minded (and beginner) individuals raving it definitely has effect. I think casio has the numbers game going right now. Youre hard pressed to even find Kawai boards for demo. the big box stores didn't even have full lines of Rolands to try out. Casio was everywhere. Of course, folks find 5 to 700 bucks easier to part than 1500 plus. It's not a bad keybed at all. It's just that the plastic wrapper is a bit ....... Plastic? It has it's place. That lighter weight makes for a good gigging machine. And under engineering the wrapper allows the designer to put more money on the action. Hype is hype.


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